piston slap??video

[russell3123]

I just finished my engine build and i have a rapping sound coming from the valve cover, i checked all bearing and they dont have a mark at all.I am running manely pistons with a .0050 ptw clearance , is this piston slap?
dsm manley piston slap - YouTube

 

[rbwtrans]

From your video, it doesn't sound like piston slap. It sounds like you don't have any oil pressure to your head. Is your oil pressure gauge showing good pressure? What kind of engine set up did you build? Mods?

 

[xyexz]

Could we get some more info on your build up of the head, lifters, cams etc.

Did you have to deck the head a decent amount, bse kit, oil squirter delete etc.

Also from the vid sounds like perhaps some lifter tick but maybe some missing as well.

Did you preload the engine with oil first before attempting first startup? Might have some seized lifters that will cause a lot of noise.

 

[russell3123]

I have eagle rods acl bearings manley pistons 20 over with ring gap set at 20 and 23 manely valve springs with stock retainers, bse, comp cams stock valves. Oil pressure is about 60psi cold 20psi warm. No marks on Cam lobes. I still have oil squirters and not much was taking off when it was decked.I spun the oil pump with a drill before first start up

 

[xyexz]

What lifters are you running? When you did the rebuild did you clean them at all?
What oil are you running as well, your oil pressure sounds okay 20 psi is a little high.

How did you check your bearings for marks?

Also how many miles on new build, did you do any break in?

 

[russell3123]

The engine only has about 30 minutes of run time, still on Jack stands.. I dropped the oil pan and pulled every bearing one by one, even the upper main bearings .I was running 5w30 until idropped the pan now I have 10w30.I'm running stock lifters. I did not clean them, they weren't noisy before the build.I kept them soaked in oil while they were out of the head

 

[rbwtrans]

I hate to say this, but check your cam belt timing. I've heard a similar noise when an intake cam jumped three teeth.

Also, when the engine is running, if you take off the oil cap, do you see oil flowing?

 

[russell3123]

I checked the timing Its dead on still. I took the oil cap off while it was running and oil was squirting out of the oil cap hole.

 

[jimbob_843]

Is this a 6 bolt swap? Reason i ask is maybe you forgot to enlarge the head holes and is now restricting your oil?

I too am having this sound on my fresh build, 6 bolt swap and also 20 over manley pistons. Hmmmmm

 

[vingasoline]

Pull the valve cover off and check for anything obvious. Maybe even start it with it off to verify good flow.

 

[russell3123]

Yes, it is a 6 bolt swap with a 2g head. It was before the build , i just took the engine out rebuilt it and put it back in.The kid who owned it before me blew a piston .I did pull the valve cover off and everything looks ok , no marks on the cam lobes.I did notice a few lifters were tough to compress but didnt seem frozen.

 

[BogusSVO]

Did you use the 6 bolt ARP head studs with the build?

If Yes, with the studs in the block, and you installed the head, did it slip into place? or did you have to force it some?

 

[thomcasey]

Still sounds like lifters to me. My son had to replace his head. His made this noise for about 10 minutes. Eventually it quieted down. His lifters were also soaking in oil, but still were apparently not primed.

 

[russell3123]

I reused the same arp head studs that were in there before.I put the head on then dropped the studs in ,screwed in by hand.

 

[bryanwheat]

Sounds like there are 2 different noises going on here. There is a faint noise that does kind of sound like piston slap ( i would expect that at .005 clearence). The loud tapping noise sounds like lifters that are not primed. IF you installed them dry than it could be that they just aren't primed yet, or as stated in the post above that you have low oil pressure because of the larger diameter arp studs and not enlarging passenger front head bolt hole.

 

[russell3123]

I thought 20 psi of oil pressure warm was high .

 

[BogusSVO]

20 psi warm is good, but not high. I am not sure but min oil pressure at warm idle is 15 psi.

Oil pressure readings are taken from the OFH, not the head.

Now if oil flow around the head stud #4 cyl, last head stud on the left exhaust side of the head, is reduced you run a chance of ruining the head, mainly over on the intake side, mainly #1 &#2 intake cam journals, that are furthest from the oil supply.

look at the pics in this thread

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/420671-head-junked-cam-caps.html

If this was not done to your 7 bolt head, the oil flow to the head will be reduced.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cylinder-head-short-block/341885-oil-port-mod-2-4g63t.html

also did you by chance do this one?

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/341028-4g63t-head-oil-port-mod.html

Now .005 PTW is a tad much, but not bad, but once the engine reaches op temp and thermal expantion occurs, it should quite up.

 

[russell3123]

The cam caps looked perfect when i put the head back together.I reused the same block, head, and studs.

 

[Calan]

I definitely hear a lot of lifter noise throughout the video, but I'm not sure what the other sound is. (For those not hearing it, it's pretty loud at 3s and then fades, and becomes more audible around 11-12s; then it gets really loud at 24s. It stands out from the lifter noise quite a bit at 24-25s).

It sounds sort of like piston slap, but also sounds a bit "heavier" than I would expect...for lack of a better way of describing it. Hard to tell with a video though.

 

[BogusSVO]

I understand what you are saying.

I am just trying to make you aware of what may be an issue, and it it is what damage it can cause.

If you choose to go back and inspect the areas that are being pointed out to you, fine, if you do not, thats fine too.

Personally, I would go remove 1 stud and see if a 1/2 or 13 mm shank bolt would slip into the head stud hole in the head.
If it did, I know all is good, If it did not, I would pull the head and have it fixed bu haing the head bolt holes reamed to .500/13 mm so I know the head is getting proper oil flow.

Yes I know you are getting oil into the head from seing up there.
But pressure and flow amount are 2 diffrent things.

 

[russell3123]

Im going to try to fit a bolt in it like you said and try new lifters. I wont be able to pull the head until the spring. ITs freezing out up here now and im working on it outside.

 

[BogusSVO]

cool Let us know how the bolt test goes!

Maybe you can get lucky and fund a buddy that will have a shop you can work in if need be.

 

[jimbob_843]

I already pulled my valve cover, same results as op. I enlarged my head holes to 1/2" which was PLENTY of space. When i installed my head they fell right through no prob. I think its my lifters, which i cleaned bled and primed. Idk im keeping up on this thread goodluck to you op and dont mean to thread jack.

 

[russell3123]

The 1/2 bolt fit right in , so i changed my lifters and the noise still didn't go away. After 20 minutes of run time one of my lifters broke and it backfired pretty bad. I put a old lifter back in and it wouldnt start so i pulled all the spark plugs. Cylinder three plug was destroyed and theres a huge gouge in the top of my piston. I followed vfaqs instructions on installing lifters to the t.I also started the car with the valve cover off before the new lifters and there was plenty of oil flow (shot oil everywhere).

 

[BogusSVO]

Sounds like you broke the head off a valve.