People with lowered cars please help

[turbo96eclipse]

My 1996 Eclipse GST is lowered at all 4 corners with tokico shock and springs, i belive it is a 2 inch drop. What have you guys done to fix the suspension so that the tires wear normally and the car handles normally. Ive already installed a camber kit in the rear but it didnt correct it enough so i machined out bushings of my own to fix the camber. Right now my car seems to be dangeroulsy unstable on the freeway. The steering feels very touchy. Its hard to explain how it feels but to give you an idea, if i were to swerve back and forth like Nascars warming up their tires the car seems to pull hard in either direction. Im at a loss on what do do, its been a nightmare for me. Most shops tell me that they cant correct the suspension much on the car since its preset at the factory and camber and toe isnt adjustable. Please help me out

 

[wret]

Your tow isn't adustable? I would find another alignment shop.

It sounds like you have tow out so your front tires are fighting to go in two different directions. Which ever tire has better grip at any particular moment takes you in its direction. You will still need to get your camber issues straightened out but negative camber should't cause the flightiness you describe.

 

[1fast97gsx]

camber and caster aren't adjustable ... toe is. I recommend a camber kit in the rear. Just do the diy kit which will cost you about $20 ... then have the car aligned immediatly.

 

[DCsGST]

I had the same problem when I started messing with my camber. It scared the piss out of me at 70 mph cause the rearend would step out with the slightest touch of the wheel. I ended up getting this and got a 4 wheel alignment and I am VERY happy I did it:


SPC Camber Kit (95-99 Eclipse 94-98 Galant 3.0" Drop) Complete Set

 

[cuttheduck]

Yah, in the chiltons it says that AWD cars have adjustable toe AND camber in stock form in regards to the rear suspension. However it says that FWD cars CAN'T adjust toe or camber.

so im guessing some shops just think that dsms cant have their toe adjusted because it seems as if most of you FWD's have no issues getting an alignment.
What does the shop mess with to align toe anyway, the trailing arm bolt or something? I should know in case all the local shops say they cant align my car.

 

[kevingst]

I don't know of any other companies, but ask your alignment guys if they use "SPC" or "Specialty Products Company" alignment parts. My pops does alignments, did mine, and this company sells an adjustable upper arm ball joint. With that you can adjust your camber instead of going the usual "camber adjust kit" route. Price was the same if not cheaper than the usual kits and installation was much easier. And front toe adjustments can be made on the tie rod. I don't know that rear toe can be adjusted, but as far as camber goes...just do like everyone else said. Longer bolts and more washers on the upper arm brackets will giterdun.

 

[turbo96eclipse]

Today i took my car to the shop to get aligned and they did all they could do. My rear toe seems to be the biggest problem. Here is the specs that the shop gave me of what my car is at now.

FRONT

Camber
LEFT RIGHT
-1.2 -1.7
Toe
LEFT RIGHT
-.03 -.02

REAR

Camber
LEFT RIGHT
-.9 -1.1
Toe
LEFT RIGHT
-.98 -1.07

 

[kevingst]

Well, no doubt your rear toe is hurtin'. Your front camber needs to be less. More like -.3 And your rear camber needs to be out more, like -1.3--1.5. I'll try to ask my pops while he's at work to verify all this and see what can be done about the rear toe.

Kevin

 

[jtmcinder]

If they sent you home with 2 degrees of rear toe out then either they have bought some life insurance (care to guess on whose life?) or they couldn't adjust your rear toe because the bolts have rust-welded. Ask them which it was.

- Jtoby

ps. there's nothing wrong with your front camber

 

[kevingst]

Ok, I'm a little confused then. Is he mostly a track racer or mostly daily driver? Because it seems to me that those front readings are a bit excessive for daily driver street use. I know that when I had near the same readings on the front and I made a 900 mile trip that the insides of my tires were barely existent. Jtmcinder, you said one should go for -3degree front, but that's REALLY leaning in, isn't it?

 

[jtmcinder]

I'd love -3, but my car is also a daily driver, so I'll stick with -2 and some front toe-out.

-1.5 is fine on the street. If front toe is very close to zero, the tires will be fine. On the springs he has (along with the almost nil front travel), the car will still safely understeer.

Again, the thing that most distressing is that a shop would send someone home with 2 total rear out. That's irresponsible. If the bolt are rust-welded (my guess), then they should have told him to get new rear toe arms. Unless you live in the desert, new rear toe arms are in your future (or past). It's just part of owning an AWD 2G.

- Jtoby

 

[kevingst]

Ok, here's the recommended street (non-track) specs from Hunter Alignment:
Caster: Non-Adjustable (unless you install plates)
Front Toe
Left .0 Right .0

Front Camber
Left & Right -.08

Rear Toe
+6 Left & Right(+12 total)

Rear Camber
-1.3 Left & Right

Make adjustments wherever you see fit for your use. And finding out what the rear toe should be, yea, you're damn right, it's jacked up they sent him home like that.

 

[jtmcinder]

Caster: Non-Adjustable (unless you install plates).

What? It's a 2G. It doesn't have struts. The only way to change caster is move a ball-joint.

Also: what units is all this in? My guess is now that you've been talking mm, since nothing else is close to the spec values you're reporting. (Who the heck does an alignment in mm, anyway? This is America, dammit, and we don't care what Jimmy Carter signed or promised; we ain't going metric!) In any case, the value for the rear is wrong. Metric spec is 3 +/- 3 mm in the rear, so 6 mm would be the max toe-in, not the suggested value.

- Jtoby

 

[kevingst]

Hey, I didn't write the book. Hunter alignment did...the guys that make the racks. They said it in mm. That's just a direct quote from what the book said for our car. I prefer standard myself, but even as I watched my pops doing the alignment, I looked at the computer screen and everything was in metric. I certainly wasn't gonna nitpick and try to convert it. But like I said, I didn't make any of those numbers up, they're straight out of the book. Rear toe-in and all.

 

[turbo96eclipse]

I just got out from under my car and i tried to turn the essentric bolt on the lower arm but it only goes so far then it feels like its binding on something and returns to its original position. I think i might be able to get it to turn if it were on a lift but i just cant get enough room to get leverage on the ground, but who knows mabye it wont come free even then. The guy that did the alignment on my car said he could only adjust it so far because the bolt wouldnt turn anymore. The bolts are about in the neutral position (not to the left and not to the right, pretty much right at the top). Any ideas on what to do?

 

[Omega]

I just replaced the rear toe bolts. You might want to look into a new bushing if you need to replace them. The new ones are smothered in anti-seize, I suggest the same.

There should be marks on the washer and body to let you know where you are.

Hey JToby, can you give me a good setup (and please list units ) Something geared towards highway stability but not too bad on treadwear.

 

[jtmcinder]

Turbo96 - That's exactly what it feels like when the bolts have rust-welded to the inner sleeve of the bushing. Unfortunately, that means new toe arms and they are a total PITA when the bolts are seized. But you have to do it.

Omega - zero toe front and a tad of toe-in rear (as in 1/32" on each side) gives the best tire wear with good stability. This is also darned close to what Mitsu suggests.

- Jtoby

 

[DCsGST]

What? It's a 2G. It doesn't have struts. The only way to change caster is move a ball-joint.

Also: what units is all this in? My guess is now that you've been talking mm, since nothing else is close to the spec values you're reporting. (Who the heck does an alignment in mm, anyway? This is America, dammit, and we don't care what Jimmy Carter signed or promised; we ain't going metric!) In any case, the value for the rear is wrong. Metric spec is 3 +/- 3 mm in the rear, so 6 mm would be the max toe-in, not the suggested value.

- Jtoby

I believe his #'s are in degrees not MM.

 

[kevingst]

I believe his #'s are in degrees not MM.

Oops, yea, I think you're right. That's more like it, now I think about it.