Oil pressure relief porting alternative?

[forcefed86]

Just wondering why everyone is porting the relief valve and not changing the spring pressure on the valve it's self? Seems to me a lower pressure spring would unseat the bypass at a lower pressure doing the same thing?

Just a thought...

Any reason this wouldn't work?

This way you wouldn't have to remove it off the engine either.

 

[Shadow21]

You dont have to remove the engine. Just remove the lower timing cover and the 5 bolts that hold the housing on including the alternator bolt. Its not that the spring isnt doing its job, the hole is too small. Ive done this to my galant when i removed the balance shafts. I also had it done to my gf's 2g and the oil pressure went down significantly. Its not hard at all. If you have the right dremel bits its easy.

 

[forcefed86]

You dont have to remove the engine. Just remove the lower timing cover and the 5 bolts that hold the housing on including the alternator bolt. Its not that the spring isnt doing its job, the hole is too small. Ive done this to my galant when i removed the balance shafts. I also had it done to my gf's 2g and the oil pressure went down significantly. Its not hard at all. If you have the right dremel bits its easy.

Never said anything about removing the engine. I said you wouldn’t have to remove it (oil plate) off the engine.

As in you could change out springs without removing anything. Usually when I rebuilt engines I’d be doing the opposite and shimming the spring pressure up for more oil pressure. I suppose if the hole itself is too small then you may have to port it as mentioned. I wonder if the hole is actually to small….

I look at is a sliding gate. If the spring pressure is to high to completely open the gate then porting it will just expose more orifice as a lower gate opening. Where as if you reduced the spring pressure the gate would open farther and bypass more oil. Both are doing the same thing. One just requires a tenth of the effort.


My engine is out of the car now so it’s no big deal for me to port it. I’d be interested to know if reducing the spring pressure would lower oil pressure as well. Would be a good test for someone to try that already has everything back together.

 

[ramsack]

that is a good idea rather than needing to take a lot of crap apart, i would say it takes 1/100th of the effort to just take out the valve from the housing rather than take the housing off...and you don't waste a gasket doing this either, nor can anything really be messed up (slipping tool marring gasket surface)

EDIT: just a thought, why do non-turbo 4g63's not have over pressure? they use the same relief hole in the housing, and they don't have oil squirters or a turbo, so i'd say you could get it close with just changing the spring.

 

[forcefed86]

Then again who’s to say what pressure is to high…

Lots of folks (esp. the tuner crowd) thinks 50 weight oil is necessary on there “race” car. Esp. when breaking in engines I like to use high oil pressure and low weight oil 5w-20 or so. This will help cold/dry starts and lower the over all oil pressure quite a bit. Then as the bearings break them selves in you can go up to a thicker oil. I say if your not bulging/blowing the oil filters with your current pressure leave it alone. (yet to hear of this on a DSM) Esp. on a used engine with loose bearing clearances.

 

[ramsack]

bearing erosion....if turbos don't like high pressure and that is a journal, why would bearings in the engine be treated any differently being journals, as well? it also puts unnecessary strain on the main seals among other seals. i don't agree with using heavy oil to get rid of noises rather than fixing the problem. i stay with 10w30 or 5w30 in the winter.

 

[LiquidX]

It still won't exactly help you out by putting in a lighter spring. The reason for the port work is because NOT ENOUGH OIL is able to make it out of the hole fast enough which raises the oil pressure.

Putting in a lighter spring will open sooner but you will still have the same oil pressure as before because the oil can't make it out of the small hole fast enough to regulate the pressure well enough when you increase the pressure by removing the balance shafts. The standard spring is already allowing a fully open hole on most vehicles that are experiencing high oil pressure. The only way (that I know of currently) to decrease the pressure is by enlarging the oil relief valve hole to allow more oil (by porting) to bypass the circulation throughout the block and drop back into the pan.

Yes you will need to take 4 bolts off and replace a $1.50 gasket, but that's what you'll need to do if you want lower pressure.

 

[ramsack]

and yet my question has not been looked at about the non-turbos not having problems with high oil pressure. yes they still have balance shafts but they also don't have a turbo or oil squirters.

 

[LiquidX]

Honestly I wouldn't bother with the N/T as they came from the factory with that kind of pressure. It might help them out with lubing up the bearings, but it's basically normal. Now once you add in turbos or oil pressure sensitive parts, then yes, I would get concerned with adjusting the oil pressure.

 

[ramsack]

i'm stating that the non-turbo's DON'T have high oil pressure, and their housings have the same small hole in the OFH, and they don't have a turbo or oil quirters to bleed off pressure.

 

[eclipsetuner_21]

You ^^ make a very good point about the 4g63 nt blocks. I would also like to know. Maybe they have a softer spring?

 

[forcefed86]

bearing erosion....if turbos don't like high pressure and that is a journal, why would bearings in the engine be treated any differently being journals, as well? it also puts unnecessary strain on the main seals among other seals. i don't agree with using heavy oil to get rid of noises rather than fixing the problem. i stay with 10w30 or 5w30 in the winter.

Oil pressure does not hurt bearings. The reason it causes issues with the turbo is because it blows by the seal. (I've still yet to see this) The more oil pressure in the main bearings the better IMO, it provides more of a cushion. Many race engines are built this way with high bearing clearance and more oil pressure.

The main seals are nothing more than a splash guard it's not like your main seal is seeing the pressure readings on your oil gauge.

I've still not heard of excessive pressure taking out turbo bearings? I've seen to much volume supplied, with poor drainage. This causes oil to back up and bypass seals etc... You can always put a restrictor on the turbo oil supply if your worried about that.

It still won't exactly help you out by putting in a lighter spring. The reason for the port work is because NOT ENOUGH OIL is able to make it out of the hole fast enough which raises the oil pressure.

Putting in a lighter spring will open sooner but you will still have the same oil pressure as before because the oil can't make it out of the small hole fast enough to regulate the pressure well enough when you increase the pressure by removing the balance shafts. The standard spring is already allowing a fully open hole on most vehicles that are experiencing high oil pressure. The only way (that I know of currently) to decrease the pressure is by enlarging the oil relief valve hole to allow more oil (by porting) to bypass the circulation throughout the block and drop back into the pan.

Yes you will need to take 4 bolts off and replace a $1.50 gasket, but that's what you'll need to do if you want lower pressure.

I'm just wondering how you know that the oriface size is physically to small and is actually being over run? You are assuming that the bypass is actually opening 100% with the OEM spring. Again, I'm not saying your wrong. But how do you know how far it is opening?

Like I said I haven't tried it, as you say it may not help. Just a thought.

 

[ramsack]

Many race engines are built this way with high bearing clearance and more oil pressure.

you kind of made a point but didn't. if you don't build with clearances for that oil pressure, then you will have problems. pressure is related to volume. if you put a restrictor inline to a turbo, it will decrease pressure AND volume. you're the one who opened this thread wondering how to lower pressure with a spring instead of porting the hole, and now you're saying too high of pressure won't hurt anything.

i would still like to know how a non-turbo keeps the pressure under control with the same size relief hole. obviously the hole doesn't become overrun.

 

[forcefed86]

you kind of made a point but didn't. if you don't build with clearances for that oil pressure, then you will have problems. pressure is related to volume. if you put a restrictor inline to a turbo, it will decrease pressure AND volume. you're the one who opened this thread wondering how to lower pressure with a spring instead of porting the hole, and now you're saying too high of pressure won't hurt anything.

Who says there will be problems? I still made my point, the motors I'm speaking of run loose clearances and usually see around 125 psi from 5000 rpm and up. This is extra insurance when making lots of power in esp. with turbo/nitrous engines.

Actually a restrictor will raise pressure and reduce volume. Which is fine if you select the proper size. Pressure isn't a problem, being able to drain the extra oil supplied by the added pressure is.

Thought I might make someone elses life a little easier if you didn't have to remove the plate.

I'm having a discussion, that is all.

i would still like to know how a non-turbo keeps the pressure under control with the same size relief hole. obviously the hole doesn't become overrun.

Are you sure they use the same gears?

 

[ramsack]

a restrictor will create higher pressure to the oil flowing into it, but on the outlet the pressure is lower. there is no different turbo or non-turbo oil pump for the 4g63.

 

[red1993gsallmt]

I had a problem with to much oil pressure (150psi at 7k), porting didnt help much but cutting a loop and a half off the spring helped alot, brought it down to 20ish at idle and 75-80ish at 7k

 

[hhuricane]

The spring is the same n/t and turbo so that won't solve the problem.

 

[slowgsr]

Keeping the pressure down helps keep oil in the pan......

 

[red1993gsallmt]

it also lets the turbo spool faster and motor rev faster. I killed 2 turbos with high oil pressure

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

i would still like to know how a non-turbo keeps the pressure under control with the same size relief hole. obviously the hole doesn't become overrun.

I have had a 4G63 non-turbo w/bs and a turbo wo/bs (neither ported) and the oil pressures are about the same. This leads me to believe that the non-turbo relief valve isn't the answer you are looking for.

 

[ramsack]

how about oil squirters? if you had oil squirters still then that and the turbo alone would make up for the difference. i just don't see how the hole is too small to bleed that much pressure. i believe a spring could make a difference as others have stated. not everyone wants to rip apart the entire front of their engine and have to buy a gasket either. yea the gaskets are cheap, but most people can't just drive somewhere within 5 or 10 minutes and have one instantly.

i also had another theory...if one were to not have balance shafts, then the "timing" of the oil pump sprocket doesn't matter anymore, and you really could just have a bigger sprocket made to make the pump turn slower. i would think it would increase reliability of the pump as well.

 

[Ravenous]

Paying for a larger precision engineered sprocket would be counter intuitive for this group. Sure it is easier but a dremel or side cutters would be much more economical. I'm not saying that it wouldn't work. I'm just saying the vast majority people would rather enlarge their orifice ...and also dremel out the hole in their OFH. The gasket would cost much less than the sprocket.

 

[ramsack]

it's just a sprocket. i'm sure a cad person could design one in minutes with given info on the timing belt teeth, and then off to the cnc machine!

 

[LiquidX]

Maybe so, but not everyone knows someone with a CAD machine that would make a gear for a CHEAP cost. I think by doing that you would need to find the proper sized belt as well to accommodate the larger sized gear.

As stated, porting and the gasket is easier and cheaper to do.

 

[ramsack]

to each their own. i'm sure the slack could be taken out of the tensioner area of the belt. think about it though, if you rev to 7k, which most people who build rev to way more, you are spinning that oil pump at 14k. doesn't sound healthy to me. if i had the resources to even manually mill and lathe one down i would make a bunch of the sprockets and not charge an insane amount.