Not happy with holset

[freeride_ca]

First a little back ground. I was building a car with a mid to low 11 second goal. The car is a weekend driver/ track car. Not a DD. I decided to go with a holset HX40. It's not working out for me. Dynoed the car at the DSM shoot out and only got 368 max HP and 336 max torque. I've got about 40 runs in the car, with a best of 12.1 @117. I was expecting more out of it. The only thing I can think of is the turbo. here is a list of current MODs.

Eagle rods, weisco 9:1 pistons, Arp every thing. HKS 272 cams head was ported and polished ( on a flow bench). punishment header, tial 38mm waste gate, FMIC with 2.5" piping, FIC 950's wally 250, AEM EMS, meth injection.

The turbo is a HX40 6 blade 56mm. in a garret T/3 .63ar housing. The turbo was used, but rebuilt before it went on the car.

I'm happy with the spool up of the turbo just not the power level. From looking at other peoples results. I was expecting to reach my low 11 second goal with no problem. I had the car tuned by a shop and not by myself. I'm out of ideas.

 

[Black94DSM]

What was your boost level you were running? With these holsets you almost need to run over 25 psi to get real good numbers out of them.

 

[toofast82]

What kind of dyno was this on?
How much boost as said? What type of fuel and how much timing?
117mph is definitely enough to get in the 11s, not low though. What are your 60'? Are you using No-lift-to-shift?

 

[Rob10_99]

Yeah I think your at less than 20psi if your not seeing much power as you want.
I assume the shop tuned it on pump gas?

 

[Black94DSM]

A friend of mine had his car on a mustang dyno. 11 degrees of timing and 25 psi on an hx40 pulled 36Xwhp. After some tuning we were up to 14 degrees of timing and 31 psi. This netted us 434whp. Just to give you an idea. His turbo is a 6 blade 60mm hx40 in a bolt on dsm housing.

 

[freeride_ca]

The car was dynoed at Buscher racing, it's a mustang dyno. This was on pump gas (94 octane) and 60/40 meth mix (60% meth). 17* timming and 33psi of boost. adverage 60' in the 1.7's with a best of 1.6. I am not using no lift to shift.

 

[dsmtalontsi95]

What is your track's elevation?

 

[JusMX141]

I'm happy with the spool up of the turbo just not the power level. From looking at other peoples results. I was expecting to reach my low 11 second goal with no problem. I had the car tuned by a shop and not by myself. I'm out of ideas.

Same turbo, same dyno, same day:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/dyno-talk/346023-hx40-575-awhp-521-awtq-mustang-dyno.html


Perhaps your tune needs some help?

 

[slowgsr]

The car was dynoed at Buscher racing, it's a mustang dyno. This was on pump gas (94 octane) and 60/40 meth mix (60% meth). 17* timming and 33psi of boost. adverage 60' in the 1.7's with a best of 1.6. I am not using no lift to shift.

I seen your car.. I was the guy that asked how much power you made. I noticed you did the pulls with the hood closed, what was the deal with that ? Keep it a secret.

Your traps are fairly low, however, 117mph is about right for your power level. 17 deg is lots of timing, and 33psi is lots of boost.

I went 128mph with just 11 deg of timing on 29lbs on a s258, pump gas as well. I run consistant 11.3-11.2's with just 1.8 60fts. Car will do a high 10 now judging by my 1/8 mile times/traps vs my 1/8 mile when i ran the low low 11's.. they kicked me off the track for running too fast with no safety equipment, and told me if I did it agian i would be banned for 1 year, so I can't go for 10's on this stock motor in the 1/4 so I just work on 60's RT's (heads up classes) and do 1/8 mile for now.

How high are you reving? I noticed when your car was on the dyno, about 6500 it sounded as if the car wasn't making any more power. Can you post up your ign maps? Or would you be able to send me your AEM Cal? [email protected].

I think you need to upgrade turbo's, run a large frame T3 S300 series turbo from BW. You will be much more happy with the power gain.

You DONT need to NLTS, the added stress on the drivetrain is not worth it.

Goodluck

 

[viperlp01]

lets see a log....

 

[TofastForU_99]

I also saw this car and i was wondering why it put such low numbers with a turbo that should be around the 4-500 hp range i would have to start second guessing your tune. learn to tune and then work on it yourself and then you wont run into these kind of problems

 

[slowgsr]

Im curious to know if you have knock control setup with the AEM? Perhaps your getting some noise and its pulling timing?

 

[freeride_ca]

the whole hood being closed thing. That was all Buscher. They don't even let you drive your own caar on the dyno. After the 7500 rpm mark it falls off fast. 'll try to post a log or my dyno graff latter.
Every one seems to agree that it should have made more power though.

 

[JusMX141]

the whole hood being closed thing. That was all Buscher. They don't even let you drive your own caar on the dyno.

This is because of liability more than anything. With 1000 people standing around, they don't want random pipes, couplers, belts, and other parts blowing out from under the hood of a dyno car and nailing an audience member standing no more than ten feet away.

They don't let you drive your own car on their dyno to eliminate the random possibility that someone would hit the brakes or something retarded like that which may damage their very expensive tool. There are people running at the Shootout who don't even know how to stage at the track properly; why should they be allowed to drive their car on a dyno?

There are rules for the dyno competition that day- everyone follows them. Don't make it seem like your car would've made 150 more horses if the hood was open and you were behind the wheel.

 

[JEFFREYCASTGSX]

Also a dyno is only to be considered as a TUNING device not measure your hp.

 

[donniekak]

Also a dyno is only to be considered as a TUNING device not measure your hp.

This is true, but, other cars on the same dyno, the same day, with the same setup, made WAY more power. The important part here is way more power. If it was a few hp off from comparable cars it could be the tires, suspension angles, or any other different drivtrain, or slight tuning difference. The fact that the car made about 200 less hp than a comparable setup leans heavily twords a suspect tune. If you have a full supporting mod setup ANY turbo should make 400hp at that boost level. I would check the entire setup and start a fresh tune from the ground up.

 

[JusMX141]

Also a dyno is only to be considered as a TUNING device not measure your hp.

Correct, but for one day a year Buschur uses it to determine whose car is making the most power (of those who enter) of which a cash prize and plaque is awarded. Nothing wrong with that in my eyes....they're assuming all your tuning was spot-on for the competition before your car ever rolls on to their dyno.

 

[airmail96]

I would agree with everyone else and say look at your tune. You could try adjusting the cams a little bit for peak power, or adding an intake manifold. What are your AFRs?

 

[freeride_ca]

This is because of liability more than anything. With 1000 people standing around, they don't want random pipes, couplers, belts, and other parts blowing out from under the hood of a dyno car and nailing an audience member standing no more than ten feet away.

They don't let you drive your own car on their dyno to eliminate the random possibility that someone would hit the brakes or something retarded like that which may damage their very expensive tool. There are people running at the Shootout who don't even know how to stage at the track properly; why should they be allowed to drive their car on a dyno?

There are rules for the dyno competition that day- everyone follows them. Don't make it seem like your car would've made 150 more horses if the hood was open and you were behind the wheel.

Don't take it the wrong way. I under stand why they did it like that, with insurance and all that. I was just answering another question. I'm sure my car would not have made any more power regardless of who was diving, and if the hood was open.

 

[doesitonall4rs]

Dumb question but have you checked for boost leaks? like actually pressurized the system, if you didn't put silicone on the compressor housing before you put the gigantic C clip on it could be leaking out of there.

Also kind of curious what AFR you are running at.

And I would ditch the 60/40 mix and just run 100% methanol on all my cars that I've had they always ran faster with 100% meth than any sort of a mix.

The tune could also be in question, but since buscher did tune it I'd assume they know exactly what they are doing since they mess with DSMs and Evos day in and day out.

 

[1gDSM4g63]

Did Buschur do the tuning or was it just a dyno?

Boosting 33 psi on a HX40 you should be seeing mid to high 400 hp. I for one have been seeing 472 hp boosting 32 psi @ 11.2 degrees of timing according to DSMLink log. I'm pretty sure when I go to a pro tuner I could be seeing mid to high 500 hp.

Check out Holset Turbos, RESULTS ONLY (COMPLETE INSTALLED SYSTEMS) to see what others have done.

BTW - a Mustang Dyno usually gives lower readings. Multiple by 1.2 to compare to a DynoJet or Dynopack readings.

 

[freeride_ca]

Just to Clarify, The car was not tuned by Buscher. It was another shop, In Canada local to me that I deal with. I trust their work and the tune on the car.

Upon further inspection, I've discovered That my turbo is on it's way out. There is noticeable shaft play both side to side and up and down. There is also visible damage to the compressor wheel. My guess would be this is what caused the low numbers as the turbo was not operating as it should.

Now I have to decide to rebuild or replace the turbo. If I decide to rebuild the turbo. Can it be upgraded to the billet 60mm compressor wheel?

 

[gstryyder]

first figure out what did that to your turbo