No Fuel = No Start

[90 TSI FWD]

First off, I'm not sure where to put such threads at, so I put it in the Newbie forum area. If there is a better place this should have been, let me know.

I have some issues with my car, and I'm running out of ideas. For a while now, I've been have starting problems. For the past few months, my car would occasionally take a long time to start. The engine would crank and would take a while before the fuel pump kicks on and starts the car. This happened maybe four or five times between January and March. One of the times I had it towed. Another time, it started 4 hours later. The other starting attempts were fine.

Recently, my car finally decided it would not start anymore. I'm not getting any fuel pressure and my pump is not turning on. The day after it would not start, it started and ran fine. The day after that, it wouldn't start, and never started for a week. (me for a week: ) I changed the fuel pump relay and checked the connections, and everything is fine, but the fuel pump just wouldn't kick on. I decided to get another one. I put in a new Walbro 255 HP fuel pump, and changed the battery because it was dead. The car started right away, and I drove a few miles! I was happy and went home.

The following night (Friday), I was going to go home for the weekend (I go to UF, but am from Jacksonville). I go to my car, and crank it. It took a while to actually start. I figure this is because the fuel pump is still brand new..? I go to a gas station and my car dies when I pull in. It took two tries with me holding the gas pedal for it to start. I drive straight to my apartment, shut it off, and let it cool down for an hour. I go back out to start it, but it won't start! No fuel pressure. Now I'm stumped again. I'm leading to believe that the ECU might be my next thing to try or check out. One reason is because my car does not always let me change the stock boost gauge setting (chipped eprom). It also does not run lean when I engine break, when it should. It just continues to cycle. Also, because the problem began when the Florida temperature changes were ridiculous - cold to hot to cold, etc.

Does the ECU control anything related to the fuel pump? I was thinking for a second that my AFPR may be the culprit, but what does it have to do with the pump not even turning on?

Any help is appreciated. I need a car. My apartment is without food, and I'm losing so much money eating on campus.

Thanks,
Chad

 

[GSXSixteenG]

There's obviously a loss of pressure somewhere in the fuel system. The first step would be to find why it is losing pressure. I'd start with the lock ring on the fuel tank. Fuel pressure is necessary in fuel injected vehicles.

 

[asb2106]

Does the CEL come on for 5 seconds then turn off when you turn the ignition on w/o starting the car?

If it doesn't, check the MPI relay, and then the ECU..

 

[90 TSI FWD]

GSXSixteenG, my fuel pump is not even turning on at all.

asb2106, my CEL turns off

It was suggested on another forum that I try the CAS, since it primes the fuel pump every 1/4 turn. I'm going to try that in a couple of hours (I'm hungry!). I'll update and see if it works. Luckily, I have a spare in my trunk, so if that is my problem, that would be just Great!

 

[asb2106]

good luck,

the CAS was my next guess

hope you get it!! and enjoy the beautiful florida sun!

I delivered a WI bread talon down to you, I went to school in Pensicola with my talon.. ended up selling it down there.

 

[90 TSI FWD]

That's cool, man. I'd love to enjoy the sun, but I'll do that when school is over. Just a few more weeks! (That means I only have a few weeks to bring my grades up! Haha) Then I go to Field Training this summer for ROTC.

But first I gotta get the darn car running. It's been good to me so far, but not all good things last forever.

 

[GSXSixteenG]

GSXSixteenG, my fuel pump is not even turning on at all.

asb2106, my CEL turns off

It was suggested on another forum that I try the CAS, since it primes the fuel pump every 1/4 turn. I'm going to try that in a couple of hours (I'm hungry!). I'll update and see if it works. Luckily, I have a spare in my trunk, so if that is my problem, that would be just Great!

Even if it checks out... You need fuel pressure. Is your fuel pimp rewired, have you checked power to the pump? Is there fuel to the rail?

Do you have spark? If you have spark you can assume or I would assume the CAS is working properly.

 

[90 TSI FWD]

Even if it checks out... You need fuel pressure. Is your fuel pimp rewired, have you checked power to the pump? Is there fuel to the rail?

Do you have spark? If you have spark you can assume or I would assume the CAS is working properly.

I followed the wires from the battery to the pump, and I see nothing wrong with anything. I looked over everything in the back when I changed my fuel pump and the relay. My fuel pump is rewired. Should I check for fuel in the rail? What will that tell me?

I actually did not check for spark. I noticed the fuel pressure gauge on my AFPR to read zero, so I assumed I had no fuel. If the CAS is the problem, maybe it's cutting off both fuel And spark.

 

[GSXSixteenG]

I followed the wires from the battery to the pump, and I see nothing wrong with anything. I looked over everything in the back when I changed my fuel pump and the relay. My fuel pump is rewired. Should I check for fuel in the rail? What will that tell me?

I actually did not check for spark. I noticed the fuel pressure gauge on my AFPR to read zero, so I assumed I had no fuel. If the CAS is the problem, maybe it's cutting off both fuel And spark.

Fuel at the rail will tell you 1. if your fuel pump is working 2. if the system is holding fuel pressure. Since your FPR says zero, obviously the fuel system isn't holding pressure or your gauge is broke.

The CAS controls both Spark and Fuel in a 1g. But you need fuel to the rail first!

 

[90 TSI FWD]

Fuel at the rail will tell you 1. if your fuel pump is working 2. if the system is holding fuel pressure. Since your FPR says zero, obviously the fuel system isn't holding pressure or your gauge is broke.

The CAS controls both Spark and Fuel in a 1g. But you need fuel to the rail first!

Okay. In addition to checking my CAS, I'll check for fuel at the rail.

But, the big thing I know for a fact is that my fuel pump is not turning on at all. I Should hear it turn on while the motor is cranking, but I don't.

 

[EagleTalonTim]

I know this may sound completely random, but check your coolant temperature sensor wires. There are 3 of them on your car. One kicks the fans on and off, one controls your dash gauge, and the other send info back to your computer. The one you want is the one that talks to your ECU. This one has a horizontal male connector, and a vertical male connector...basically it looks like this ( -- | ). Check the wires going to it, and possibly even replace that sensor. Even if that sensor is bad, it will not throw a CEL and your engine will crank every once in awhile. Hope that helps!

 

[90 TSI FWD]

Okay, so here's what just happened:

First of all, I basically did nothing. I changed the CAS with a good working unit and it still does the same thing.. sorta.

I could crank the car. It starts (not really, but the RPMs jump to about 1000) and dies. At one point, it almost ran for 2 seconds, but it died. I'm not getting fuel. I had a friend watch my FPR gauge, and he said it did not move at all. So, I'm getting enough fuel to (kind of) start the car, but definitely not getting any pressure to keep it alive. Could this be a bad AFPR?

 

[EagleTalonTim]

If you have an aftermarket AFPR, open it up to expose the diaphragm inside of it. Be sure to open it slowly so you can see how to put it back together. Check for any cracks or visible holes in it. The first one I got lasted about 6 months and the outer rim of the diaphragm cracked causing it to not hold pressure. You can get just the diaphragm for your AFPR instead of replacing the whole thing.

 

[GSXSixteenG]

Okay, so here's what just happened:

First of all, I basically did nothing. I changed the CAS with a good working unit and it still does the same thing.. sorta.

I could crank the car. It starts (not really, but the RPMs jump to about 1000) and dies. At one point, it almost ran for 2 seconds, but it died. I'm not getting fuel. I had a friend watch my FPR gauge, and he said it did not move at all. So, I'm getting enough fuel to (kind of) start the car, but definitely not getting any pressure to keep it alive. Could this be a bad AFPR?

Pull the return hose from the FPR to see if its dry after cranking or you could pull the vacuum line to see if its wet. Either of these are signs of a faulty FPR.

Since you just installed a new fuel pump, I'm not ruling out my first guess of losing pressure from the lock ring on the fuel tank.

 

[90 TSI FWD]

Pull the return hose from the FPR to see if its dry after cranking or you could pull the vacuum line to see if its wet. Either of these are signs of a faulty FPR.

Since you just installed a new fuel pump, I'm not ruling out my first guess of losing pressure from the lock ring on the fuel tank.

Oh, no. Don't worry about that. I had that issue January last year, so I made sure I did that very carefully this time. I'm going to check out for a faulty FPR after class tomorrow.


So before I head to campus (an hour ago), I decided to try to start my car. It started! I set the turbo-timer and watch my AFPR gauge. When the car shut off, it dropped straight to Zero. Could this mean something wrong in the fuel pump area? or a bad AFPR? I couldn't find any leaks in the fuel lines.

 

[90 TSI FWD]

Does anyone have any ideas on where I should attend to next? The car drove fine around the parking lot, but with this pressure dropping straight to zero, I'm not taking it on the road yet.

 

[GSXSixteenG]

You gauge should not drop directly to zero. Pressure will stay in the system. You need to find out why your losing fuel pressure. Did you check your afpr yet?

 

[yoshi_tony]

^^^+1

when i had this problem for about 2 weeks straight and couldnt find it... i would have 15 psi of fuel pressure then it would drop and i changed my fuel pressure regulator and walla!!! 39 psi

one way i checked...i took off the fuel return line i would crank it and no gas would spit from the regulator and like you know thats bad but you should do this first before you buy it
if any more questions pm if you want
good luck

 

[90 TSI FWD]

You gauge should not drop directly to zero. Pressure will stay in the system. You need to find out why your losing fuel pressure. Did you check your afpr yet?

As in opening it up? No I have not done that yet. Since the car is starting, I'll probably see fuel in the return hose, even if the afpr is faulty. I'll hopefully have time tomorrow to pull it out, but if not then, it will have to wait until Sunday. Thanks for the help so far!

^^^+1

when i had this problem for about 2 weeks straight and couldnt find it... i would have 15 psi of fuel pressure then it would drop and i changed my fuel pressure regulator and walla!!! 39 psi

one way i checked...i took off the fuel return line i would crank it and no gas would spit from the regulator and like you know thats bad but you should do this first before you buy it
if any more questions pm if you want
good luck

Well, I do have pressure when the car is running. But it just falls when it's off. I will contact Fuellab at some point today and see if they have any input.

 

[yoshi_tony]

maybe its going out when i bought mine in autozone i asked them if it wouldnt start if i can return it and they gave in an hour to return it

 

[GSXSixteenG]

maybe its going out when i bought mine in autozone i asked them if it wouldnt start if i can return it and they gave in an hour to return it

I did the same thing at Advance Auto, but I had acquaintances of high power then regular employees.

 

[90 TSI FWD]

Just a quick update. My car starts for 1 to 2 (maybe 3) seconds. Some times, it will sound fine. Other times, it really struggles. Either way, it shuts down. Even during the times it starts for 3 seconds, I have No fuel pressure. I changed the MPI relay and it didn't do anything. I also took out my ECU to check for damages. I did find a missing 'thing' at C38. And I've been having something missing on C14 previously. I'm hoping this isn't causing any other sort of problems. I have pictures, but have no way of uploading it on my laptop.

At one point, after the car shut off, I heard a *click* from the engine bay (my hood was up). When it clicked, I so happened to be staring at my mechanical boost gauge, and, for that split second, it jumped to 15 psi and back to zero. I have my boost gauge and AFPR vacuum hose connected to the same port off the intake manifold.

Now, I'm assuming I may have a bad AFPR. I took the hose off the AFPR to see if fuel was getting into the hose. There wasn't, But, it did smell like fuel inside the vacuum hose. I think I may have a bad diaphragm in the FPR. Fuel Is going to the rail. I could hear it fall through the fuel filter when the car shuts itself off.

I am going to contact FUELAB tomorrow, or whenever I find time during the day. I would take off the AFPR and open it for some diagnostics, but I do not have the time right now for such labor.

 

[Kyromoto]

First off, I'm not sure where to put such threads at, so I put it in the Newbie forum area. If there is a better place this should have been, let me know.

I have some issues with my car, and I'm running out of ideas. For a while now, I've been have starting problems. For the past few months, my car would occasionally take a long time to start. The engine would crank and would take a while before the fuel pump kicks on and starts the car. This happened maybe four or five times between January and March. One of the times I had it towed. Another time, it started 4 hours later. The other starting attempts were fine.

Recently, my car finally decided it would not start anymore. I'm not getting any fuel pressure and my pump is not turning on. The day after it would not start, it started and ran fine. The day after that, it wouldn't start, and never started for a week. (me for a week: ) I changed the fuel pump relay and checked the connections, and everything is fine, but the fuel pump just wouldn't kick on. I decided to get another one. I put in a new Walbro 255 HP fuel pump, and changed the battery because it was dead. The car started right away, and I drove a few miles! I was happy and went home.

The following night (Friday), I was going to go home for the weekend (I go to UF, but am from Jacksonville). I go to my car, and crank it. It took a while to actually start. I figure this is because the fuel pump is still brand new..? I go to a gas station and my car dies when I pull in. It took two tries with me holding the gas pedal for it to start. I drive straight to my apartment, shut it off, and let it cool down for an hour. I go back out to start it, but it won't start! No fuel pressure. Now I'm stumped again. I'm leading to believe that the ECU might be my next thing to try or check out. One reason is because my car does not always let me change the stock boost gauge setting (chipped eprom). It also does not run lean when I engine break, when it should. It just continues to cycle. Also, because the problem began when the Florida temperature changes were ridiculous - cold to hot to cold, etc.

Does the ECU control anything related to the fuel pump? I was thinking for a second that my AFPR may be the culprit, but what does it have to do with the pump not even turning on?

Any help is appreciated. I need a car. My apartment is without food, and I'm losing so much money eating on campus.

Thanks,
Chad

wow some 1 with my same problem. well i did everything you did. I also checked my ecu and it was BAD so i had it rebuilt and ran fine. but then whenever its cold outside or i let the motor get fully cold again it wont start and i cant hear the FP turn on. Itll sound like its gunna start for 1 rotation then no more fuel and just wasting starter. then i wait a min and try again same thing. 1 second of fuel then no more. but this only happens when my car is cold? if its hot outside it runs fine. I changed temp sensor and my maf still no change. also change my fuel filter. my injector o rings. etc etc. I cant see where im leaking fuel at or why it keeps starving.
o yeah mine also started when i went to the high desert and it went from real hot to real cold at night. thats when my car wudnt run right again

 

[ramsack]

At one point, after the car shut off, I heard a *click* from the engine bay (my hood was up). When it clicked, I so happened to be staring at my mechanical boost gauge, and, for that split second, it jumped to 15 psi and back to zero. I have my boost gauge and AFPR vacuum hose connected to the same port off the intake manifold.

Now, I'm assuming I may have a bad AFPR. I took the hose off the AFPR to see if fuel was getting into the hose. There wasn't, But, it did smell like fuel inside the vacuum hose. I think I may have a bad diaphragm in the FPR. Fuel Is going to the rail. I could hear it fall through the fuel filter when the car shuts itself off.

that sounds exactly like a bad FPR diaphragm. at that moment of the click there the fuel probably leaked into the vac line and pressurized the boost gauge. if your engine is sucking in additional gas though the vac line then it will barely run.