New startup, car won't run right (log inside)

[nicknorth11]

I did a major rebuild/upgrade and have had several problems. I thought I finally had them worked out, but the car is still running horribly. I took a log of it trying to run. I did notice the airflowperrev is unstable (moreso in other logs), but I don't know why or how to fix it. If there is anything else you guys notice, please let me know.

Thanks,

 

[JayRolla]

Im going to look at the log, but explain what running rough is??? Also explain what you have done to the car since it ran OK.

 

[JayRolla]

Timing is real high at idle. Is this a 6 bolt swap with a 1g CAS? Timing should jump around 10-20 at idle and yours sits at 21.1* pretty solid. I dont know if thats an issue. Fuel trims are good. I cant see much from the logs but I may be overlooking something.

 

[nicknorth11]

I don't know how to describe "running rough" other than it sounds like it's misfiring or sputtering and it won't stay running. It also idles near 600 or so and is set to 900.

Mods since it was running right:

Block refresh (new rings, bearings, hone)
FFWD head (mm o.s. valves, supertech springs, etc.)
GM 3" MAF (connected via ecmlink cable)
Magnus smim
4" intake
Vented valve-cover
1g throttle body
Tial Q
Upgraded to ecmlink v3
Complete fuel upgrade (bosch 044, fuelab 818 filter, -8AN feed, rail, bluemax 1450's, -6 return, fuelab afpr)
Thundervolt 50 plug wires

It's all 7-bolt, engine, cas, everything else. I'm not sure about the timing, but I think it's usually pretty high on my car at idle. I tried looking at some old logs, but I don't know how to open v2 logs with v3.




*edit* I haven't done any tuning to get the fuel trims in line (aside from setting the injectors), so it's odd that they're sitting perfectly at 0%. I wonder if that has anything to do with it.

 

[snowborder714]

Your front o2 sensor isn't cycling.

Are you sure your plug wires are in the correct order?

I would probably up deadtime to 450 or so.

 

[nicknorth11]

Your front o2 sensor isn't cycling.

Are you sure your plug wires are in the correct order?

I would probably up deadtime to 450 or so.

I'll look into the front 02 sensor in just a few minutes. I'm sure the plugs wires are right. Most people I've seen running these injectors are using a deadtime of 315. I'm not familiar with the reasons for increasing or decreasing deadtime. Can you tell me why you recommend 450 please?

 

[snowborder714]

When I was dialing in my FIC 1150's, I was getting high AirFlowPerRev readings (.36 or so). They're supposed to be around .28 with v2 and .24 with v3. I talked with Tom and he recommended me to up the deadtime a bit. A bit didn't work (got it down to .32-.34) so I made a much bigger jump to 480. The value then sat around .28 and also allowed me to pull down my 50Hz airflow slider, since having a GM MAF made that value skyrocket to +37 or so on the wiki deadtime.

 

[nicknorth11]

I upped my deadtime and it seemed better, but still wouldn't run by itself. I could go higher, but I don't think that alone will fix the problem. Will the 02 sensor cause the weird fluctuations? (My airflowperrev is all over the place.) Also, did you notice the fuel trims are at 0% with no tuning? That doesn't seem right to me.

 

[snowborder714]

If your front o2 sensor isn't working, the car won't run correctly, which would probably cause your airflow readings to go haywire.

Since you have v3 and a logged wideband sensor, I would try the narrowband simulation to see if it helps.
v3narrowbandsim [ECMTuning - wiki]

I'm not sure what to suggest about the fuel trims other than maybe they're reading 0% since they're not getting any reading from the front o2 sensor.

 

[nicknorth11]

I simulated the 02 signal and it just locked it in at .20v. Here are some logs with simulated 02 and 315 and 450 deadtime.

 

[snowborder714]

Well, your startup options for the narrowband simulation say to delay for 15 seconds and your logs are around 12. I saw it change at the end of the 450 deadtime log at 17.934 seconds to .80. Start it up and let it idle for about 30 seconds unless it really sounds horrible. Your wideband probably isn't even warmed up by the time you shut off the car in these logs.

 

[nicknorth11]

It would've died if I didn't give it some gas. I held the throttle steady, but it was surging badly.

 

[mikelv]

You do sound like you have a tuning issue getting it to run right, but make sure you double check mechanical timing as well as base timing. Make sure you’re not one tooth off on the belt. Also, not sure if you threw a timing light on there but make sure it’s on as well.
I had a heck of a time getting my car to idle smooth because of the blocked FIAV and no coolant lines running to the throttle body. I’m not sure if you done this but Darren usually builds and runs his stuff like that, especially with the SMIM. Do you have strong vacuum on the car? The cams should rump around 14-15.
Just because your front O2 isn’t working doesn’t mean you can’t get the car running ok. I was having all those surge issues, ect….so I just unplugged the front O2 and forced the ECU into single loop. I would give it a try because it should smooth out the idle if it’s solely a tuning issue and everything else is ok. All you have to do is adjust your airflow sliders to get smoothed out idle and adjust your fuel sliders so the car is running right at WOT. It’s simplifies the whole closed-loop/open- loop/ idle situation, and by having Link, you can adjust things so the car isn’t super rich all the time allowing you to still get good gas mileage.

Also, that built head and intake isn't going to idle smooth at 600-900 regardless of what you do. The idle control on Link is a pretty silly feature and doesn't really work all that well.
Crank out the BISS a few turns and idle that thing around 1100 or so. 272's are pretty stable around there. I'm sure if you eliminate the front O2, smooth out the BISS and give the airflow/fuel tables some fine tuning you'll get her running right.

 

[nicknorth11]

You do sound like you have a tuning issue getting it to run right, but make sure you double check mechanical timing as well as base timing. Make sure you're not one tooth off on the belt. Also, not sure if you threw a timing light on there but make sure it's on as well.
I had a heck of a time getting my car to idle smooth because of the blocked FIAV and no coolant lines running to the throttle body. I'm not sure if you done this but Darren usually builds and runs his stuff like that, especially with the SMIM. Do you have strong vacuum on the car? The cams should rump around 14-15.
Just because your front O2 isn't working doesn't mean you can't get the car running ok. I was having all those surge issues, ect....so I just unplugged the front O2 and forced the ECU into single loop. I would give it a try because it should smooth out the idle if it's solely a tuning issue and everything else is ok. All you have to do is adjust your airflow sliders to get smoothed out idle and adjust your fuel sliders so the car is running right at WOT. It's simplifies the whole closed-loop/open- loop/ idle situation, and by having Link, you can adjust things so the car isn't super rich all the time allowing you to still get good gas mileage.

Also, that built head and intake isn't going to idle smooth at 600-900 regardless of what you do. The idle control on Link is a pretty silly feature and doesn't really work all that well.
Crank out the BISS a few turns and idle that thing around 1100 or so. 272's are pretty stable around there. I'm sure if you eliminate the front O2, smooth out the BISS and give the airflow/fuel tables some fine tuning you'll get her running right.

The mechanical timing is dead on.

Base timing was 10 degrees off. I adjusted it via ecmlink and nothing much happened.

My FIAV is not blocked off.

Vacuum fluctuates between 10-15

I took a log of the biss unscrewed about 1.5-2 turns, 450 deadtime, front 02 unhooked (simulation off) and the idle upped to 1100. It felt a little better, but still really rough and wanting to die.

 

[nicknorth11]

I upped the deadtime to 585 and backed the biss way out. It seemed to help a lot, but the idle was way too high, around 1500rpm's. I noticed a little smoke so I shut her down. Turned out to be a small oil leak that dripped onto the downpipe, I think. I'll look into things more tomorrow if I have time.


The log is posted. Please check it out and tell me any thoughts or ideas you may have.

 

[nicknorth11]

I see my AirflowPerRev and ISCPosition are too high and my front 02 isn't cycling. I've read that the 02 could be due to the high airflow reading. I've tried backing out the biss to lower the ISCPosition, but it didn't help too much. Also, I got on the gas a little bit and it was extremely slow to react. Please take a look at this log and tell me what you think.

Thanks