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New guy looking to get into DSM's

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the dark one

Probationary Member
22
0
Jul 14, 2010
gardner, Kansas
alright guys, ive got quite a few questions to ask about DSM's, but first let me give you a little backstory.

my grandpa and my dad have been drag racing mustang's and camaro's for as long as i can remember, and we have built many, many, cars pushing over 400HP.

our project at the moment is a 98 mustang GT, and to be honest, im sick and tired of loud, rumbling, RWD muscle cars. a friend of mine picked up a (2g?) AWD 97 talon, and i fell in love with this thing. he dropped the clutch and it just took off, i was pushed into the seat like none other, and hearing the turbo was just awesome.

my dads gonna be so pissed when he finds out i want a 4 banger, but hey. when it puts the stompin' on his camaro, he'll think twice.

now for my questions,

-how much aftermarket support is there for talons/eclipses?
-how easily can one learn about and build a DSM engine?
-how many different engines are there availible?
-what is the most common building platform?
-is the AWD system constantly engaged?
-how easily does the AWD system break down?
-what year/model would you recommend for a mildly built street car?
-how reliable are these cars?

updated questions~
-what years come with turbo and AWD stock?
-are all DSM's DOHC?

thats all for now, i dont want to get confusing.

i will add more as time goes on, and thanks for your help in advance!
 
-how much aftermarket support is there for talons/eclipses?
-how easily can one learn about and build a DSM engine?
-how many different engines are there availible?
-what is the most common building platform?
-is the AWD system constantly engaged?
-how easily does the AWD system break down?
-what year/model would you recommend for a mildly built street car?
-how reliable are these cars?

thats all for now, i dont want to get confusing.

i will add more as time goes on, and thanks for your help in advance![/QUOTE]

Im new myself, but I can still answer smoe of these! the aftermarket support is AWESOME. One of the reasons I got into DSM myself. I am new to cars altogether and I can say Im starting to figure out the engines a little, meaning you should have zero problem. Turbo DSMs have a 4g63 motor and nonturbo is a 420a. AWD is constantly engaged in my 99 gsx, and to my knowledge there's no exception. Reliability is something thats on you. Some people will do stupid things and have a money pit, and other will take care of them, do proper maintenance, and have as reiable a car as ever.


Warning though, its an addiction. :hellyeah:

Oh, and this should answer EVERYTHING, and then some. This site is chock full of information, and you can easily find everything on here.

Frequently Answered DSM Questions - DSM Forums

welcome again!
 
alright guys, ive got quite a few questions to ask about DSM's, but first let me give you a little backstory.

my grandpa and my dad have been drag racing mustang's and camaro's for as long as i can remember, and we have built many, many, cars pushing over 400HP.

our project at the moment is a 98 mustang GT, and to be honest, im sick and tired of loud, rumbling, RWD muscle cars. a friend of mine picked up a (2g?) AWD 97 talon, and i fell in love with this thing. he dropped the clutch and it just took off, i was pushed into the seat like none other, and hearing the turbo was just awesome.

my dads gonna be so pissed when he finds out i want a 4 banger, but hey. when it puts the stompin' on his camaro, he'll think twice.

now for my questions,

-how much aftermarket support is there for talons/eclipses?
There is still a lot of support but getting hard to find little trim items from dealer
-how easily can one learn about and build a DSM engine?
this forum is a great place, so it vfaq.com
-how many different engines are there availible?
3 4G63 NA, 420A, and the 4G63T(you want the turbo engine)
-what is the most common building platform?
what? AWD is the best. 1G(90-94) is the lightest but oldest. I have a 2G
-is the AWD system constantly engaged?
yes 50/50
-how easily does the AWD system break down?
Many 400 AWHP cars on stock drivetrain. Early 1Gs had weaker axles. Most break trans or Xcase on really hard launches or beating the piss out of their cars
-what year/model would you recommend for a mildly built street car?
Simplicity and cheapness 92-94
-how reliable are these cars?
As realiable as the maintainer. Maintenace is first thing. I have driven mine across country without any problems multiple times and Im close to 400 crank HP. Mine is for sale by the way :)

thats all for now, i dont want to get confusing.

i will add more as time goes on, and thanks for your help in advance!

All of your questions can be answered by searching on this forum. There is a lot of info, so start readig :) My answers in red
 
thanks for the information guys.

as for reliability, i take amazing care of my cars. they're never driven hard until oil pressure and temp are at 100% normal, i never take turns quickly, and people honk at me going over the railroad tracks because i do about 2 1/2MPH :D

---a couple of new questions are added on the OP---
 
updated questions~
-what years come with turbo and AWD stock?
-are all DSM's DOHC?

thats all for now, i dont want to get confusing.

i will add more as time goes on, and thanks for your help in advance!

yes except for the lasers didnt have AWD till 92

and yes all are DOHC except for the non turbo 2g convertables,theres a turbo version as well

but all turbo ones have a DOHC 4G63

2g's have style points and 1g's are a bit more stealthy because they dont look really sporty.

i love both of them i actually want to pick up a 92+ talon next
 
Every year of production of the Laser, Talon, and Eclipse offered awd 4G63T as the highest option (except 90-91 Lasers). I wouldn't put a lot of effort into finding a specific year unless you want to wait awhile to find one. I say this because I would look for as clean a one as possible (unmodified is best to start with). There are things that are different between different years though so you should first decide whether you want a 1g or 2g and then do some research from there. This forum has everything you should ever need to know on it if you just do some searching.
 
thanks for the information guys.

as for reliability, i take amazing care of my cars. they're never driven hard until oil pressure and temp are at 100% normal, i never take turns quickly, and people honk at me going over the railroad tracks because i do about 2 1/2MPH :D

---a couple of new questions are added on the OP---


DSM is more of a contantly changing all the fluids including transmission and crankcase and all the obscure oils and belts you normally don't have to worry about and doing it every 3-4 months.
 
good stuff, guys. good stuff.

im learning quite a bit already :)

ive seen people mention this issue before, and get kicked for it. but i feel as though i need to bring it up..

CRANKWALK

i read the thread on it, and im wondering exactly what year i could buy and not have to worry very much about this issue.
 
crank walk is real but is not as common as its made out to be. if you want to avoid the issue look for a 1g with a build date of 1991 the second half of the 1992 dsm's came with 7 bolts engines...

if you plan on building a engine anyway you should build a 6 bolt and you can just swap it into whatever you buy
 
good stuff, guys. good stuff.

im learning quite a bit already :)

ive seen people mention this issue before, and get kicked for it. but i feel as though i need to bring it up..

CRANKWALK

i read the thread on it, and im wondering exactly what year i could buy and not have to worry very much about this issue.

90-91 or 97-99, the 97-99 can still get it but not nearly as easily as 95-96. 90-91 will never see it as a result of the fabled "crankwalk" But every engine anywhere can get crankwalk. 2ga's were just more likley then normal cars.
 
Honestly you really don't have to worry too much about it. CW is blown out of proportion sometimes. The way I look at it is; most cars that were going to walk have been driven enough that they would've already and if they didn't it means they most likely weren't defective. There's no guarantee, I just wouldn't worry about it if I was you. Anyway the 98's and 99's are supposedly the least prone to it in 2g's. All 1g's including ones with a 7 bolt aren't really susceptible to it.
 
alright guys, ive got quite a few questions to ask about DSM's, but first let me give you a little backstory.

my grandpa and my dad have been drag racing mustang's and camaro's for as long as i can remember, and we have built many, many, cars pushing over 400HP.

our project at the moment is a 98 mustang GT, and to be honest, im sick and tired of loud, rumbling, RWD muscle cars. a friend of mine picked up a (2g?) AWD 97 talon, and i fell in love with this thing. he dropped the clutch and it just took off, i was pushed into the seat like none other, and hearing the turbo was just awesome.

my dads gonna be so pissed when he finds out i want a 4 banger, but hey. when it puts the stompin' on his camaro, he'll think twice.

I can understand where you are coming from, I have my background in muscle cars…I started out driving them back when they were actually affordable! I still appreciate the cars of that era, but the combination of price and performance that the DSM’s has pulled me in…

I tried to give a few brief answers to your questions below: just remeber that this is by no means a comprehensive guide ;)

-how much aftermarket support is there for talons/eclipses?- Aftermarket support is very large, especially if you want to build a street / drag-race car, just go to Ebay and search for “Eclipse” or “Talon” or “4g63T”….
There is also good range of support for road-racing or autocross for these cars, but it is much more limited than drag.
-how easily can one learn about and build a DSM engine?
- Learning about DSM engines and building is a s easy as searching and reading around this site and others like it! MANY knowledgeable and helpful people out there!

-how many different engines are there availible?
-what is the most common building platform?

- There are several different engines available, most people build the 2.0 liter (4g63) Turbo motors, There are two versions , a “6 bolt” 90-mid 92 and “7 bolt” late92-99…but there is also the 420A which people have turbo’d as well, then there is the 2.4 Liter motor, and of course people have swapped cranks and pistons and rods to get 2.3 liter stroker and 2.2 liter versions… info on each of these motors can be found by looking around the site

-is the AWD system constantly engaged?
- Yes

-how easily does the AWD system break down?- The system is fairly robust because it is basic, fixed Front/Rear split, but there is also plenty of aftermarket to bolster the drivetrain to whatever power you need…. Or can afford.

-what year/model would you recommend for a mildly built street car?
- Either a 1G or a 2G would be great in that category, generally 1G’s are slightly
less expensive to start with, but parts are generally the same price between the
two platforms so it comes down to which one you prefer

-how reliable are these cars?-
well, that is a loaded question, the main issue with DSM’s that are seen as unreliable comes from the cars being older and owners who do not keep up the maintenance. Mine has never left me stranded and the few things that gone wrong were hoses and parts that were worn out that I had not replaced yet. As far as the engine…the 4G63T is generally considered to be very stout, able to make roughly twice the stock rated 200hp before needing to build the bottom end with foraged internals…

Overall, DSM’s are a great and fairly inexpensive Street/Strip platform… I am sure others will chime in here with more info.. in the mean time Welcome to the addiction! :D
 
-how much aftermarket support is there for talons/eclipses?

Tons, second probably only to honda.

-how easily can one learn about and build a DSM engine?

Boltons are simple and most average shmuck can figure them out in a few hours, if your going for a fully built engine complete with headwork, blockwork, and internals your talking about a few months of reading, planning, and saving minimum.

-how many different engines are there availible?

SOHC N/T 90-94
DOHC N/T 4g63 90-94
DOHC Turbo 4g63 90-99
DOHC N/T 420a 95-99
So uhm 4 by my count

-what is the most common building platform?

4g63

-is the AWD system constantly engaged?
Yarp, its an all wheel drive, not a four wheel drive.0

-how easily does the AWD system break down?
Hm, if you mean break as in EFF up, not gonna happen unless you are giving it hell.

-what year/model would you recommend for a mildly built street car?

1991 Eagle talon, cheap, readily available, no one knows wtf it is and you can usually get a steal, plus they are just sexier than the eclipses of the same generation.

-how reliable are these cars?

You can have 2 of 3, cheap fast and reliable.

That said, if you want it cheap and fast its gonna break.

If you are willing to spend money, it can be really fast and really reliable.

updated questions~
-what years come with turbo and AWD stock?
91-99 GS(T) Turbo GS(X) Turbo and AWD, or Any talon with TSi can be either but will usually have another sticker stating if it is awd.

-are all DSM's DOHC?
No the first gen's had a single cam engine that was available.
 
I can understand where you are coming from, I have my background in muscle cars…I started out driving them back when they were actually affordable! I still appreciate the cars of that era, but the combination of price and performance that the DSM’s has pulled me in…

I tried to give a few brief answers to your questions below: just remeber that this is by no means a comprehensive guide ;)

-how much aftermarket support is there for talons/eclipses?- Aftermarket support is very large, especially if you want to build a street / drag-race car, just go to Ebay and search for “Eclipse” or “Talon” or “4g63T”….
There is also good range of support for road-racing or autocross for these cars, but it is much more limited than drag.
-how easily can one learn about and build a DSM engine?
- Learning about DSM engines and building is a s easy as searching and reading around this site and others like it! MANY knowledgeable and helpful people out there!

-how many different engines are there availible?
-what is the most common building platform?

- There are several different engines available, most people build the 2.0 liter (4g63) Turbo motors, There are two versions , a “6 bolt” 90-mid 92 and “7 bolt” late92-99…but there is also the 420A which people have turbo’d as well, then there is the 2.4 Liter motor, and of course people have swapped cranks and pistons and rods to get 2.3 liter stroker and 2.2 liter versions… info on each of these motors can be found by looking around the site

-is the AWD system constantly engaged?
- Yes

-how easily does the AWD system break down?- The system is fairly robust because it is basic, fixed Front/Rear split, but there is also plenty of aftermarket to bolster the drivetrain to whatever power you need…. Or can afford.

-what year/model would you recommend for a mildly built street car?
- Either a 1G or a 2G would be great in that category, generally 1G’s are slightly
less expensive to start with, but parts are generally the same price between the
two platforms so it comes down to which one you prefer

-how reliable are these cars?-
well, that is a loaded question, the main issue with DSM’s that are seen as unreliable comes from the cars being older and owners who do not keep up the maintenance. Mine has never left me stranded and the few things that gone wrong were hoses and parts that were worn out that I had not replaced yet. As far as the engine…the 4G63T is generally considered to be very stout, able to make roughly twice the stock rated 200hp before needing to build the bottom end with foraged internals…

Overall, DSM’s are a great and fairly inexpensive Street/Strip platform… I am sure others will chime in here with more info.. in the mean time Welcome to the addiction! :D


thanks for all the information, i learned quite a bit here.
 
wow guys! you would not believe the amount of crap i got for telling people i wanted an AWD talon!

anyways, i found a local one.. let me know what you guys think??

1995 Eagle Talon TSI AWD TURBO

it looks like it needs a little TLC, which i can do all myself.

overall, what im looking for?
 
wow guys! you would not believe the amount of crap i got for telling people i wanted an AWD talon!

anyways, i found a local one.. let me know what you guys think??

1995 Eagle Talon TSI AWD TURBO

it looks like it needs a little TLC, which i can do all myself.

overall, what im looking for?

Check the compression (135-160 IIRC), watch out for rusted front strut towers or crushed in floorpans. Grab the crank pulley and see if it clunks back and forth, make sure the turbo wheel spins freely without touching the compressor housing.

When you get it home grab a manual and replace the timing belts and components, and put a new water pump on there. Do not put the rear balance shaft/oil pump pulley out of phase! Then do a boost leak test and fix any leaks you find anywhere.

Ps. Welcome to the board!
 
Check the compression (135-160 IIRC), watch out for rusted front strut towers or crushed in floorpans. Grab the crank pulley and see if it clunks back and forth, make sure the turbo wheel spins freely without touching the compressor housing.

When you get it home grab a manual and replace the timing belts and components, and put a new water pump on there. Do not put the rear balance shaft/oil pump pulley out of phase! Then do a boost leak test and fix any leaks you find anywhere.

Ps. Welcome to the board!

thanks dude, im really new to boost, not so new to supercharging.

whats the turbo wheel? is that the fan type thing that the intake hooks up to?
 
Welcome Bro, I have owned DSM'S and RWD Chevy's. But DSM's by far WWWAAAAAYYYYY more addictive. I have tried to quit them aleast 5 times. They keep pulling back in. Ask any body here there is nothing AWD accelaration.
 
Well, you are at the right place for the info.

-is the AWD system constantly engaged?
-how easily does the AWD system break down?
-what year/model would you recommend for a mildly built street car?
-how reliable are these cars?

These questions are directly related, and I don't think it's been mentioned. The AWD system is constantly engaged, since it's a viscous center diff, limited slip in the rear (on some cars). All of it Mechanical. None of that fancy programming stuff. If a wheel slips, the viscous diff heats up and locks up, sending power to the other tires.

That said, The drive train is strong, but not invincible. if you have the AWD, you can't just dump the clutch. Since it's AWD, the tires will not spin and bleed off power. They will hook and take off like a rocket. But doing it wrong will break parts. It comes down to making sure it's taken care of. The system is derived from a rally car breeding, so it can take a thrashing, but it IS a performance car, you have to pay closer attention than with other cars. Clutch pedal travel, adjustment etc etc. The other thing is tires for the AWD. If you buy tires, you HAVE to get 4. No questions, no excuses. Running different sized tires will put the center diff through a lot of work, and it's very possible to ruin it. ((Think o trying to run with one leg longer than the other and you get the idea.))

As for the year, it's true. The 1990 models have a few unique bits here and there, but most of the parts are transferrable, and are commonly swapped. 1g Throttle body, 2g throttle body elbow, 2 Exhaust manifold, 1g motor.

And they are as reliable as the work you put into them. Short cuts can get expensive, and not listening to the wisemen can get expensive, (As can listening to people who never worked on them before). Since you've worked on cars for a while, you'll quickly learn to make yourself new tools for specific jobs.

The fun part is the fact that even if you only put about 400 to the wheels, you will still only have a 2.0 l 4 cylinder. You can have 25+ mpg in a car that can do 12s easy.

Of course, You have to remember this order. Your bank account DEPENDS on it.
1. Maintenance
2. Repairs
3. Supporting mods
4. Mods@
5. TUNING!!!!!

Maintenance finds the repairs, and the repairs help clear the way for the supporting mods, which will make the car run better, and make better use of the mods. And after all that is said and done, you need to tune what you have, cause all the parts in the world won't do crap if it's not tuned.

Only other thing I can tell you is Make a plan for what you want to do. Drag? Road course? Quick street car? Make a plan and stick to it.

((Personally however, I'm going from the tires to the engine. That way the car is ready before I make big power. But that's just me.))

Have fun, be safe, and remember. Boost gets you laid. ;)

thanks dude, im really new to boost, not so new to supercharging.

whats the turbo wheel? is that the fan type thing that the intake hooks up to?

Supercharging and Turbo charging do the same thing. They increase the amount of air entering the engine. The only difference is their powersource. Superchargers are mechanically driven by pulleys, like on muscle cars. The blowers so to speak. Turbos use exhaust gasses to turn the turbine wheel to pressurize the incoming air. Turbines turn Compressors.

And yeah, The grey side hooked to the intake is the Compressor side. The little fan inside is the Compressor Wheel. You reach in and try to move the bolt around. It shouldn't move. If it does, it's possible the turbo is on it's way out.

Here's a good source for a tour of a DSM engine bay.
http://members.shaw.ca/dsm.1000q/Engineprimer/
 
alright guys, ive got quite a few questions to ask about DSM's, but first let me give you a little backstory.

my grandpa and my dad have been drag racing mustang's and camaro's for as long as i can remember, and we have built many, many, cars pushing over 400HP.

our project at the moment is a 98 mustang GT, and to be honest, im sick and tired of loud, rumbling, RWD muscle cars. a friend of mine picked up a (2g?) AWD 97 talon, and i fell in love with this thing. he dropped the clutch and it just took off, i was pushed into the seat like none other, and hearing the turbo was just awesome.

my dads gonna be so pissed when he finds out i want a 4 banger, but hey. when it puts the stompin' on his camaro, he'll think twice.

now for my questions,

-how much aftermarket support is there for talons/eclipses?
There is this forum, mitsu-media which I would recommend, dsmtalk, dsmsource, and a few others which are all very helpful.
-how easily can one learn about and build a DSM engine?
The 4G63 platform is very easy to learn about, just takes a lot of research and studying as many other engines do.
-how many different engines are there availible?
There is the 6 bolt 4g63 which is in the 1g, 7 bolt 4g63 which is in the 2g and there is a n/a 4g63.
-what is the most common building platform?
All depends what style of driving your into, there will be different turbo's and bolt-ons for different kinds of driving.
-is the AWD system constantly engaged?
AWD is always engaged, unless you were to buy a FWD dsm
-how easily does the AWD system break down?
AWD is actually very strong, but there are many options for building your drive-train if you feel is it a weakpoint in your build.
-what year/model would you recommend for a mildly built street car?
I personally own a 1G and a 2G and I like them both for very different reasons, but I would go with a 1G platform to start because they have the 6 bolt motor and are lighter.
-how reliable are these cars?
Well, dsm's are sort of known to be unreliable but it is mainly because of how they were taken care of in the beginning. You can find a lot of clean dsm's and you can find a lot of junk you just have to know what your looking for.
updated questions~
-what years come with turbo and AWD stock? from 89-99 they offered AWD dsm's and FWD dsm's
-are all DSM's DOHC?
4G63's are DOHC only
thats all for now, i dont want to get confusing.

i will add more as time goes on, and thanks for your help in advance!


I wouldn't go with that DSM you found on craigslist, WAY too overpriced. If you look on the classifieds in here you can find a lot of DSM's.

To get you started, take a look at these
Tech Guide - DSMtuners
Tech Article Archives - DSM Forums
Frequently Answered DSM Questions - DSM Forums
VFAQ Site - Visual Frequently Answered Questions
This should help
TurboByGarrett.com - Turbo Tech101
You want to check for leaks, electrical problems, you want to check the crank, do a compression and leakdown test, check the fluids, check for transmission grinds and black or white smoke from the exhaust, check for shaft play in the turbo, and check for things that are jerry rigged. And welcome to DSMTuners
 
thanks dude, im really new to boost, not so new to supercharging.

whats the turbo wheel? is that the fan type thing that the intake hooks up to?

Yeah technically it's called the compressor wheel and it's just inside the intake of the turbo. It should spin effortlessly, but not wiggle in or out or up or down much or at all. Be gentle on it.

You want to check for leaks, electrical problems, you want to check the crank, do a compression and leakdown test, check the fluids, check for transmission grinds and black or white smoke from the exhaust, check for shaft play in the turbo, and check for things that are jerry rigged. And welcome to DSMTuners

+1 on this part too. If you see anything that looks jerry rigged walk away. I see a shitton of these cars with cracked bellhousings because someone didn't torque the bolts down right after their clutch install.
 
Well, you are at the right place for the info.

-is the AWD system constantly engaged?
-how easily does the AWD system break down?
-what year/model would you recommend for a mildly built street car?
-how reliable are these cars?

These questions are directly related, and I don't think it's been mentioned. The AWD system is constantly engaged, since it's a viscous center diff, limited slip in the rear (on some cars). All of it Mechanical. None of that fancy programming stuff. If a wheel slips, the viscous diff heats up and locks up, sending power to the other tires.

That said, The drive train is strong, but not invincible. if you have the AWD, you can't just dump the clutch. Since it's AWD, the tires will not spin and bleed off power. They will hook and take off like a rocket. But doing it wrong will break parts. It comes down to making sure it's taken care of. The system is derived from a rally car breeding, so it can take a thrashing, but it IS a performance car, you have to pay closer attention than with other cars. Clutch pedal travel, adjustment etc etc. The other thing is tires for the AWD. If you buy tires, you HAVE to get 4. No questions, no excuses. Running different sized tires will put the center diff through a lot of work, and it's very possible to ruin it. ((Think o trying to run with one leg longer than the other and you get the idea.))

As for the year, it's true. The 1990 models have a few unique bits here and there, but most of the parts are transferrable, and are commonly swapped. 1g Throttle body, 2g throttle body elbow, 2 Exhaust manifold, 1g motor.

And they are as reliable as the work you put into them. Short cuts can get expensive, and not listening to the wisemen can get expensive, (As can listening to people who never worked on them before). Since you've worked on cars for a while, you'll quickly learn to make yourself new tools for specific jobs.

The fun part is the fact that even if you only put about 400 to the wheels, you will still only have a 2.0 l 4 cylinder. You can have 25+ mpg in a car that can do 12s easy.

Of course, You have to remember this order. Your bank account DEPENDS on it.
1. Maintenance
2. Repairs
3. Supporting mods
4. Mods@
5. TUNING!!!!!

Maintenance finds the repairs, and the repairs help clear the way for the supporting mods, which will make the car run better, and make better use of the mods. And after all that is said and done, you need to tune what you have, cause all the parts in the world won't do crap if it's not tuned.

Only other thing I can tell you is Make a plan for what you want to do. Drag? Road course? Quick street car? Make a plan and stick to it.

((Personally however, I'm going from the tires to the engine. That way the car is ready before I make big power. But that's just me.))

Have fun, be safe, and remember. Boost gets you laid. ;)



Supercharging and Turbo charging do the same thing. They increase the amount of air entering the engine. The only difference is their powersource. Superchargers are mechanically driven by pulleys, like on muscle cars. The blowers so to speak. Turbos use exhaust gasses to turn the turbine wheel to pressurize the incoming air. Turbines turn Compressors.

And yeah, The grey side hooked to the intake is the Compressor side. The little fan inside is the Compressor Wheel. You reach in and try to move the bolt around. It shouldn't move. If it does, it's possible the turbo is on it's way out.

Here's a good source for a tour of a DSM engine bay.
Virtual Tour of the DSM Engine Bay - Top index

wow dude, im going to have to come back and read this over again!

tons of great information here, thanks for taking the time to type all of that out.
 
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  • Wanted WTB 2g half rad
    ISO of a 2g koyo half rad or something equivalent.
    • Michael Wucher
    • Updated:
    • Expires
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