New Guy in SA,TX With First DSM

[Bolo'sTalonTsi]

Hello everybody,

Just picked up my first DSM and turbo car a few weeks back, not regretting the buy but still gettin used to it and warming up to it. It's a 1992 Eagle Talon Tsi FWD 5-speed. The car is ever so slightly rough around the edges but hey, it is a 20 year old car.

Anywho, I have a couple concerns about/with it....the guy I bought it from(9 sec DSM owner), told me the car is running a little fuel rich and was not quite able to figure out why and stopped trying to figure it out, also stated that the car has higher flowing after-market injectors. It idles a little high and does the 150-250 RPM bounce. Previous owner was suggesting to get a Palm Pilot and app. to mess with some of the programming, which I am not quite familiar with. Was also given a couple suggestions by some friends to help with this, 1)buy thicker spark plug wires to get bigger spark to burn more of the fuel, 2)new performance ECU.<---a bit pricey for me right now. Was maybe thinking that an adjustable fuel pressure regulator would help?

Next would be the gear grinding. It seems that anytime I try to shift into first or reverse slightly fast on a fairly warm trans., it grinds either one. Will shift fine when doing so slowly. But if the car is still rolling, even slowly it'll shift into either one without an issue. No other grinding issue. Also, when the trans is cold, it'll almost act like 2nd isn't there if I try to shift into it quickly.

Thanks, thoughts and answers are appreciated.

 

[JusMX141]

the guy I bought it from(9 sec DSM owner), told me the car is running a little fuel rich and was not quite able to figure out why and stopped trying to figure it out, also stated that the car has higher flowing after-market injectors. It idles a little high and does the 150-250 RPM bounce.

So wait a minute- the guy has a 9-second car, but a rich condition with upgraded injectors on a stockish car has him baffled?

Previous owner was suggesting to get a Palm Pilot and app. to mess with some of the programming, which I am not quite familiar with.

Palm pilots are for logging, not tuning. They're also from a time when nobody had laptops or notebook PC's- now that most people do, you can run Palm emulator software on your notebook.

Was also given a couple suggestions by some friends to help with this, 1)buy thicker spark plug wires to get bigger spark to burn more of the fuel

Ah if only upgrading the wires could offset the effects of larger injectors, creating a perfect burn without the need to tune.

Don't waste your money.

2)new performance ECU.<---a bit pricey for me right now. Was maybe thinking that an adjustable fuel pressure regulator would help?

There are no performance ECU's for our cars- only stock. You can tune the stock ECU with various piggyback devices.

An adjustable regulator can allow you to control fuel pressure if that's your problem, but it won't help you tune out larger injectors.

Next would be the gear grinding. It seems that anytime I try to shift into first or reverse slightly fast on a fairly warm trans., it grinds either one. Will shift fine when doing so slowly. But if the car is still rolling, even slowly it'll shift into either one without an issue. No other grinding issue. Also, when the trans is cold, it'll almost act like 2nd isn't there if I try to shift into it quickly.

Clutch and/or synchros are hosed.

 

[2g awd dsm]

give it a full tune up. if still then check for boost leaks.

 

[awd4u]

performance ECU would be a standalone, or dsmlink type thing, i think that's what hes trying to say.

 

[Groundation]

If you are running mostly stock, you don't need larger fuel injectors. Running larger fuel injectors (getting more fuel) requires you to also adjust your air flow. You can do this by several methods, the most common and best method, in my opinion, is to get ecmlink. If you plan to build up your car, I recommend you getting it as soon as you can. It is pricey though, especially if you need to get your ecu modified to accept the eprom chip. You can also use an apexi safc (not the best option) or some free tuning software (complicated) to compensate for the extra fuel.

If you want to save money and get the car running properly first, you should just get some stock injectors and run them, check the junkyard, classifieds here or ebay for when people upgrade and want to get rid of their stock injectors.

There is tons of good information on this site, just search around or ask questions if you need specific help.

I also recommend doing a basic tune up, boost leak test, and checking/changing your timing belt/balance belt and components first. Very important.

good luck

 

[GeoTalon91]

Whats good, happy to see that someone in here lives close to my city, i'm in Laredo TX and oddly enough I recently purchased a 92 Talon TSI FWD 5spd as well.

Do you have the 6bolt or 7bolt engine?

First thing you should do is actually find out what has been done to the car performance wise. If you are running factory boost then the big injectors are killing your A/F, this may be why you have the rough idle. But it being such an old car odds are there are other factors contributing to this as well.

Check all your vacuum lines, sensors; maybe even your MAF has been hacked which is why it would idle so rough.

Also make sure you change the timing belt and its components, I thought mine was fine but it snapped two days after I purchased the car and ended up bending all the valves from the head, I still have not figured out why the belt snapped, but I'm doing all the maintanence on the engine now as I should have done in the first place.

If you run the stock fuel system and do the fuel pump wiring mod you should be able to safely boost up to 15lbs; when you are ready to go higher on boost then go ahead and re-install your higher flowing injectors (find out what cc they are first though) and also install either a 190 or 255 fuel pump

And forget about the palm pilot, you can purchase an ECmlink cable to hook up to a laptop and read this it will give you lots of good info on running Tuner Pro.

As far as the transmission goes it might be time to freshen, I know there is a way to adjust the shifter which may also be to solve some of your problem but I cant remember where I read up on that I'd have to look for it.

 

[Bolo'sTalonTsi]

JusMX141:
Yeah I know, THAT baffled me when he said he couldn't figure out the fuel issue also. I kinda laughed on the inside when he said to use a Palm Pilot. Good to know about ECUs, it seems some of the guys that have been trying to give me advice don't quite know too much about DSMs about. I was thinking about going with a CC performance clutch<---are they any good by the way?

GeoTalon91:
Ah, a local Texan! Nice to kind of meet ya.
-Haven't checked to see if the car was made in April or after of 92, so not sure if it's a 6 or 7 bolt.
-The guy did say something about doing something to the MAF sensor, yet again another thing to see about messing with for me.
-Will see about changing timing belt and all, as soon as I can put somemore money together.
-Had the boost tuned down to about 8-9 psi to be on the safe side, the rich fuel mixture worries me and I don't wanna "F" anything up increasing boost before I fix that problem. Oh yeah, Garrett(guy I bought the car from) did say he dropped in a Walboro 190 in the tank. After I do that I wanted to swap in a T25/T28 turbo = )

Thanks a bunch for the info. I would like this build to go as smooth as possible.

 

[GeoTalon91]

Nice to meet you as well perhaps will bump into each other at an event.

Don't worry about checking the date of the car, most people tend to change the engine in these cars alot, since you said the previous owner made some modifications odds are he might have opted to go with a 6bolt if he could find it.

The easiest way to find out if you have a 6bolt or a 7bolt is go to front driver side of the car/engine and check on the oil pan under the crank pulley. If the oil pan part underneath the crank pulley is bulged out then its a 6bolt if it sinks right underneath the crank pulley then its a 7bolt. You cant go wrong with this method!

If he hacked the MAF then your idle will always be rough.

I'd tear apart the side and take a look at the timing belt to see what condition its in, mine looked fine but it was old and oil soaked on the inside so you really couldn't see that it was bad, but it let go a couple days later.

It really does not matter how much boost you are running if you are worried about it affecting the timing belt. Mine let go at 70mph @3 lbs of boost coasting but other belts have snapped while idling. I guess when its time for a belt to go it goes.

However, you may damage the pistons/rings/valves/HG from running the wrong tune on the car.

I'd say check it and maybe even park it until you change the timing belt.

The 190 fuel pump should be okay you dont need an AFPR for that one, but I would say that your injectors maybe be killing your engine and performance.

If its too rich then the cylinders may not not be burning up all the fuel in each cycle; then there would be a chance that the extra fuel is getting past the piston rings and into your oil. If this is happening then you can kiss the bearings good-bye.

(I know from experience, I installed 54lb injectors on my old 2.2 turbo Lebaron and had the FPR adjusted too high. The injectors were overflowing in each cylinder and some of the fuel seeped past the rings into the oil pan. Luckily no damage was done but the car idled for only about a minute. I checked the oil and sure enough there was fuel in it, after some tuning adjustments and an oil change she ran fine.)

Just something to think about.

I'm not too sure about the turbo's for mitsu, but from what I understand the big16 is a good one.

I have the stock 16 in the car right now but have not pushed the boost up.

If anything I would probably try to get a T3/T4 hybrid (I've used couple of these they worked for me) for my application later. I have a turbo builder who makes my turbos specifically for my vehicles and the application I'm running it on.

PM any time I can probably give you some more info from my personal experiences with this and other turbo vehicles. Sometimes its better to learn from others mistakes than making the mistake yourself.

 

[AllShallPerish]

Why are you asking if it is a six bolt? It is a 92...

 

[GeoTalon91]

Not all 92's are 6bolt's, after mid 92 they released the 7bolt which is well known for crankwalk....

Regardless people change engines on these cars so much that the year of the car would not tell you what engine is in the car if its already been changed...Check the oil pan that's your best bet here read this...it has a better explanation and pictures as well...

Why am I asking if its a 6bolt????

Well some parts are not interchangeable between the 6bolts and the 7bolts, also the rods on the 6bolts are beefier than the ones the 7bolts, therefore a bit stronger for higher horsepower applications, the timing tensioner pulley is different, the list goes on and on.

But the number one reason I ask is because I'm sure everyone would like to know what platform they are working with before they start upgrading and buying parts.

 

[V8 eating dsm]

Regarding ## search. Larger injectors on a stock engine is completly unnessasary I'd put those away for a later part of the build and stick some irksome back in. Second you could possibly have a boost leak but sound that this guy you bought the car from seems to have a few facts backwards is say its a safe bet to check your ecm. Common issue in these cars. Be aware you got ## self into a dsm. Shell tear all other cars off the road but there finicky girls and needs constant attention!

 

[mike orlando]

my only sugestion for the power surging is tuning with the idle air screw.