Need your opinions on turbos.

[GSX Eclipse]

Ok here's my story. I want to put a bigger turbo on my talon tsi with a HP goal of about 350. My internals are stock and I'd like to keep the boost level between 14 and 17 psi. I need some help from others with more knowledge. BTW I'm going to be using DSMlink.

From what I've found after my supporting mods to attain my goal I'd need injectors around 680cc and a 190lph fuel pump.

Would the 190lph fuel pump be sufficient and would the 680cc injectors be enough? Once I upgrade I don't plan on or see myself upgrading turbos again. So if I don't need a 255 and a fpr I'm not gonna waste my money on them.

Would I be better off getting a small 16g or a big 16g to keep my internals safe to achieve my 350hp goal? Just from looking around the forums I've found numerous hp numbers for each turbo at a certain psi but none are consistent.

What is your opinion?????

Here's the links to where I got my numbers from. Thanks search button!
marren - fuel injection
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/fre...098-what-size-volume-fuel-pump-do-i-need.html

 

[Absit]

In my opinion the Small 16G is the best of the 16Gs, followed by the Evo3 16G, the Big 16G is clownshoes. 190lph will suit you just fine if you're staying on gasoline, and 680s should do it but you may as well go 780s (cost is about the same anyway last I looked). You've got a good, cost effective list for 300-350 AWHP.

 

[Below Ambient]

im kind of in the same boat with an auto... when i had my 90 gsx the first turbo i had was a small 16g and it was super quick with a ton of top-end (compared to a 14b)... i then went to a 50 trim and it was a night and day difference in efficiency... i actually got 35 mpg on the highway staying out of boost, and it pulled like crazy in 3rd and 4th compared to the S16g...

this time im thinking E3 because i like that quick spool, but i want it somewhat laggy for road trips... people have made over 400hp with them and they work great at lower boost levels which is great for building a reliable 7 bolt IMO....

one thing i do know is having the supporting mods is important so i would just skip the 190gph pump and go with the 255... 780's are also good.. i had 650's in my gsx and i ran out of injector above 20 psi on the 50 trim...

 

[SpawnedX]

In my opinion the Small 16G is the best of the 16Gs, followed by the Evo3 16G, the Big 16G is clownshoes. 190lph will suit you just fine if you're staying on gasoline, and 680s should do it but you may as well go 780s (cost is about the same anyway last I looked). You've got a good, cost effective list for 300-350 AWHP.

+1 to everything in this but...

Evo III 16G is by far and quite clearly the best of all 16G options. You will have a hard time flowing enough air off the small 16G to make 350ish.

 

[GSX Eclipse]

Absit, why 780s?

And SpawnedX, I kinda thought the small 16g would be running at its max to support 350. With an Evo3 could I stay in between the 14-17psi range and attain my goal and keep stock internals?

Appreciate the answers everyone, I want my upgrade list to be etched in stone before I start buying parts, to save my bank and my engine of course.

 

[SpawnedX]

ExtremePSI has Max HP rating at 320 for a small 16G, which is on an average setup. Unless you plan on having every supporting mod in the world, which based on my assumption, you probably don't, you personally won't be seeing those numbers.

Buy the better and more efficient Evo III 16G for 499.00 shipped from Forced Performance and forget about the smaller and more expensive one.

 

[born2tune]

you will only see a average of 280whp on 20 psi w/a evo 3 16g w 93 pump.

max of 330whp on pump, good tuning and racegas will sure boost your numbers up, but supporting mods are as important because thats going to be your weakest link (HG)

 

[SpawnedX]

you will only see a average of 280whp on 20 psi w/a evo 3 16g w 93 pump.

max of 330whp on pump, good tuning and racegas will sure boost your numbers up, but supporting mods are as important because thats going to be your weakest link (HG)

Look bro, please try to refrain from just posting stuff like this. None of this is true. Plenty of guys are getting 350 and more on pump and well into the 400s on e85.

 

[Absit]

I suggested 780s because they're the same price and they're added insurance, you're using Link to tune so it won't be an issue to go bigger.

I like the Small 16G for the spool, and you can get them used or even rebuilt for $100-150.

 

[SpawnedX]

By what 100 RPMs? Guys are seeing 17+ lbs on an Evo III at 3000 RPMs. The Evo III will hit harder for a sacrafice you won't even notice.

 

[Absit]

My reading suggested a bit more than 100 RPMs, but it's not really important, you're right, except in a few limited circumstances. Doesn't change the fact that you can still pick one up for $100-150, shipped.

 

[SpawnedX]

What are you reading 7 year old posts comparing the small 16G versus the big 16G. The Evo III 16G is a whole different animal engineered to spool faster than a normal big 16G and hit harder as well.

 

[Absit]

That's what happens when you search, sometimes you get old information.
Lucky for us, most of the new guys don't do it!

 

[dsm-onster]

That small 16g "rating" is at 15psi. The information on compressor maps and the boost that all the 16g turbos are rated for is very old too. But also very true

NOONE will see 350whp, the OP's goal, at "14-17psi", which is the PO's desired boost with ANY of the 16g turbos. Yes, born2tune is right. Most all setups never see more than 300whp at only 20psi with the evo3 16g, any 16g. The only difference between any of the 16g's in flow is the compressor wheel. Compressor wheel efficiency alone does not alter the boost required by more than 2-3psi, if all the wheels in question support the airflow required; which all 16g wheels do. OP wants this at boost below 20psi; if his mind cant be changed on that number, then he has to be recommended a much larger turbo (on the hotside) than any 16g.








With that said. Go look at the mph and weights of many of the small 16g setups. Several have put out quite a bit more than 350whp. I personally have seen 118mph with my full weight FWD and over 36lb/min at 22psi (which is conservative boost for a 16g); using stock manifolds, stock 7.8CR 6bolt, stock unported head, fp2x cams. The small 16g chokes (60% efficiency) at 38lb/min. And is just as efficient as the evo3 up to 34lb/min. So it isn't a bad option at all if the most you want out of your setup is 350whp. It DOES spool about 250rpms faster. Which no isn't that big of a deal being all the 16g turbos spool to full song before 3500rpms. But it is what it is. It spools the fastest for any turbo that can reach the goal of 350whp, is more efficient than the big 16g (evo1-evo2), bolts on easily. Does not need more than a cam upgrade to the longblock to see the goal.

Keep in mind that I think what SpawnedX is really hinting at is that not many want to stick with just that goal. And yes, the small 16g will be outputting hotter air at that level, but any decent incercooler can compensate. I did what I did without the use of my meth kit. I DID have a decent mishimoto front mount intercooler and east coast 93 octane gas.

 

[boostNmetal]

E16G FTW! 365awhp on 94 pump @ 20 psi

Its all about supporting mods and a good tune

 

[dsm-onster]

The point trying to be made is that it took your stroker with 9:1CR, fp exhaust manifold, and kelford 272s (which means a valve spring and retainer upgrade) to see the OP's goal at a boost that is STILL 3psi over his desired boost level.



Again, any 16g can reach his goal on pumpgas with stock manifolds and stock CR/stroke and simple hks272s or fp2s (no valvetrain upgrades), if he gets a decent tune with a quality charge cooling setup. He has to accept that he's going to have to figure out a way to tune a 16g at over 22-23psi.

 

[born2tune]

Look bro, please try to refrain from just posting stuff like this. None of this is true. Plenty of guys are getting 350 and more on pump and well into the 400s on e85.

That small 16g "rating" is at 15psi. The information on compressor maps and the boost that all the 16g turbos are rated for is very old too. But also very true

NOONE will see 350whp, the OP's goal, at "14-17psi", which is the PO's desired boost with ANY of the 16g turbos. Yes, born2tune is right. Most all setups never see more than 300whp at only 20psi with the evo3 16g, any 16g. The only difference between any of the 16g's in flow is the compressor wheel. Compressor wheel efficiency alone does not alter the boost required by more than 2-3psi, if all the wheels in question support the airflow required; which all 16g wheels do. OP wants this at boost below 20psi; if his mind cant be changed on that number, then he has to be recommended a much larger turbo (on the hotside) than any 16g.

spawnedX, so what part i said is not true again?

 

[JusMX141]

I'm not even sure if a GT35R could make 350whp at 14psi on one of our cars.

O.P.- your car is not going to disintegrate at 18psi. There are plenty of guys making much more power with a stock 2G 7-bolt. One which comes to mind: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/vendor-announcements/382960-500-hp-stock-7-bolt-corys-stm-tsi.html

Hell my buddy Jeff ran his daily-driver '95 TSi AWD at 22-25psi for two years with a Frank Level 5 20G and 139k on the stock 7-bolt. It was the only car he owned at the time so if it went down he couldn't work...and he was so confident in his car that it never missed a Test N Tune night. What finally took it off the road was the strut towers being rusted so badly that it wouldn't pass inspection....but it will be back- with the same engine.

 

[SpawnedX]

spawnedX, so what part i said is not true again?

I must have missed where he said 17 PSI. I thought you were saying that the 16G was going to be limited to 280 to 330 on a decent tune. Which is wrong. However, at 17 PSI it's not.

So at the OP, either be willing to turn your boost up or your goal is unobtainable.

 

[GSX Eclipse]

I would be willing to up the boost, as long as I can keep it at a level where it wouldn't cause any problems.

 

[dsm-onster]

All you need is a logger to determine if your boost level is causing a problem.

You have to attack this with open eyes. And your eyes are logging and what others have been successful with.