Need Opinions on JDM engine with Cyclone Intake

[EagleTalonTim]

I just bought a JDM 6 bolt cyclone engine for $1450. It comes with the ECU, Wire harness, Turbo and all sensors. I own a 93 AWD A/T TSI Talon with a 7 bolt in it. My motor crank walked on me and now I am having to replace the motor. I had a JDM in my other talon and sold it almost a year later still running strong, so I figured I would go that route again.
What I need opinions on is :
Should I leave the cyclone intake on the motor or swap it with my stock 1g intake from the 7 bolt?

If I do leave the cyclone intake on there, do I have to replace the ECU and harness to get it to run right?

Does the JDM ECU plug directly into the stock harness? If so, will that do any good or run better if I swap intakes and use the stock one from the 7 bolt?

What will I have to look out for when installing this motor? The company told me that it is from an auto car and it has the flywheel on it still. Not sure if it is AWD or not....not even sure if that matters. I am currently running a manual ECU in my talon with 450 injectors. I still want to run the 450 injectors if possible, but I am not sure if the JDM ECU will run them and if I should replace the cyclone intake or not. The turbo is a TD-04

Any help, comments, ideas or whatever will be very helpful!

 

[freshlane]

Since it is from and auto I believe there is a ring that you pull need to press out (i swaped a a/t jdm into my other dsm). Also, since you have the ecu already, which seems to be the hard/expensive part of the cyclone system, i would say why not keep the intake manifold and use the feature?

 

[DJYoshaBYD]

if its all wheel drive, then it matters.. the starter and flywheel are different from FWD to AWD.. ummmmm... you might be cool with the cyclone IM if it comes with the 16g to match.. ... I have no idea about the wiring harness.. if its a true 4g63t with a cyclone mani, then its from an evo 3...

to sum it up..

if the JDM motor came out of a AWD, then you need to use your talon's starter, flexplate, and torque converter... which you already have

The cyclone IM is a pain in the arse to get to work, but I have heard good things about them when they do, like alot more low end power and a smoother power band...

the search button is your friend.. If im not mistaken, there is HUGE thread all about them.. see what you find..

 

[DJYoshaBYD]

and yes.. if its from an auto, then you FOR SURE need to pull the spacer out of the crank where the flywheel and what not bolts too.. but it comes out VERY easy with some pliers and a rubber mallet... RUBBER MALLET

 

[EagleTalonTim]

I did my search on them and only found people just fussing about them or using other techniques to bypass the valves or get them to work. The good and the bad are about the same. This was the only motor that I could find in my budget range and was available by next week. I am the one replacing the motor and I am borrowing my friends shop to do the swap. This is not my first time swapping motors, but I have limited time to use the shop. I also wonder if some of the extra connectors on the stock harness are part of the cyclone system and all I may have to do is replace the ECU. I am not even sure if the JDM ECU will be a direct fit on the stock harness or if it would do any good since I want to run bigger injectors and a bigger turbo in the very near future.

 

[EagleTalonTim]

and yes.. if its from an auto, then you FOR SURE need to pull the spacer out of the crank where the flywheel and what not bolts too.. but it comes out VERY easy with some pliers and a rubber mallet... RUBBER MALLET

It is going back into my Auto Talon. Do I still need to pull this spacer?

 

[DJYoshaBYD]

no.. the spacer is there for the auto only... you only take it out if you are using a MT..

you know what? just take the stock IM off your old motor, clean it, and stick it on the JDM motor.. with the stock ecu... unless you dont have an EPROM ecu and the JDM one is... but that is beyond the point..

keep everything from your orginal motor except the long block... everything else should bolt right up..

when I did my last swap, I swapped a JDM NA 4g63 in and used all my turbo stuff.. all I had to switch was the oilpan and exhaust manifold.. not to mention I has the ECU reflashed (I had a 91, which had a 8.5:1 CR or something like that, and my NA had 9:1, so I needed my timing maps redone..)

Its not that big of a deal.. but you should be fine if you swap your IM from your stock one and use the stock ecu...

question.. is your JDM motor out of an evo 3? cause if I am not mistaken, they run a 9:1 CR, and you will need your 1g ecu reflashed to get the timing right, otherwise you will break the hell out of your pistons because of engine knock.. or just run 100 octane all day, every day... haha

 

[EagleTalonTim]

I don't think it is from an Evo. It is a red top turbo motor that fits in 90 to 94 talons. Is there a difference in compression ratios from a US model and a JDM model? I heard that the stock US 1g's have 7.5 or 7.8:1 compression. The JDM has 8.5:1. If that is the case, would I have to swap ECU's anyways? I just hope that I can do the full motor swap in one day. I do want to port and polish the intake if I use my original intake from the 7 bolt. It just sounds a little easier to simply use my old intake and sell the cyclone and leave my 450 injectors and manual ECU. One more thing....if I wind up replacing the ECU, will a datalogger read it?

 

[DJYoshaBYD]

o yeah.. durrr.. Im retarded... the 6bolts do have 7.8:1.. the 7bolts have 8.5:1...

If you can swap the ecu, the do it.. it will have the correct timing for that compression ratio..

 

[EagleTalonTim]

ok....now here is the question...... I bought the ECU from a guy on here along with the injectors. He had a 91 TSI M/T eclipse 6 bolt. I never noticed any problem with the timing on the motor when i put the new ecu in. Is it really that much of a difference? Would putting this JDM 6 bolt motor in my car have any noticeable differences on how it drives from the stock 7 bolt? I think I am going to port and polish the intake and exhaust and us my old intake from the 7 bolt. seems a little easier.

 

[Talonracn50]

my JDM engine was from a GVR4 with the cyclone mani and the 14b.

My understanding is that the Evo 3 is a 7 bolt.

 

[a73_4g67]

Evo engines are all 7 bolt and dont use cyclone manifolds.

If its a cyclone, its from a JDM Galant VR4. The ordinary VR4, comes with 14b, 450s and Cyclone turbo intercooler. Some of the JDM GVR4 have eprom ECU.
The RS / Montecarlo/ Super GVR4 version comes with 16G, 510s, reflashable ECU, Eci Multi lettering on the Intake but also a cyclone. All JDM VR4s are cyclone.

If I were you, I'll use the GVR4 harness, ECU and Engine. Cyclone will perfectly work on the JDM ECU. You can reflash the eprom with USDM timing and fuel maps so you wont get high counts of knock. Or you can use your USDM ECU and insert the Cyclone activation code. Keydiver can do that for you. JDM ECus are programmed for 98 octane gas.
If you want to use the USDM harness, fine, there are a few differences in pinouts. Mostly in emission control. The JDM manifold, has 3 nipples. One for the BOV, one for the Cyclone with canister, one going to the FPS-FPR.

JDM GVR4s all have 7.8:1 pistons. They're almost the same as the US 1G except for the intake and emission stuff. Red valve cover.

Evo12 have 8.5:1 pistons. Their ECU pinouts are different from the 1G /GVR4. Evo 3 has 9:1 pistions. All of them dont use cyclone manifolds. Its more of a 2G engine. Valve cover is dark gray.

 

[a73_4g67]

Use the Cyclone manifold. Its the best OEM manifold. It compliments the large ports of the 1G head. Only the 4 long runners will work under 4k rpm. So it should feel as efficient or responsive as the 2G. After 4k rpm, the other 4 short runners will open and you'll feel the difference in torque.

ok....now here is the question...... I bought the ECU from a guy on here along with the injectors. He had a 91 TSI M/T eclipse 6 bolt. I never noticed any problem with the timing on the motor when i put the new ecu in. Is it really that much of a difference? Would putting this JDM 6 bolt motor in my car have any noticeable differences on how it drives from the stock 7 bolt? I think I am going to port and polish the intake and exhaust and us my old intake from the 7 bolt. seems a little easier.

 

[EagleTalonTim]

how hard is it to replace the wiring harness? I only have 1 day to work on my car in the shop

 

[Black_Bullet]

Use the Cyclone manifold. Its the best OEM manifold. It compliments the large ports of the 1G head. Only the 4 long runners will work under 4k rpm. So it should feel as efficient or responsive as the 2G. After 4k rpm, the other 4 short runners will open and you'll feel the difference in torque.

Yea you have the GVR4 engine, evos were 7bolts like mentioned above.
Also the cyclone is worth the effort if it is set up properly.
Gains of up to 30 lbs of torque under 5k rpms have been documented so far with using the cyclone... Porting it helps it flow much better in the higher rpms, id recommend this mani to any dsm still using turbos smaller than a 20g.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=195624&page=4&highlight=cyclone+manifold

 

[EagleTalonTim]

Ok, I searched on this and could not find what I was looking for......

Is there any difference in the FWD automatic flywheels and the AWD auto flywheel?

 

[gsxeclipse97]

Yep the cyclone is great, Im running one and there is a huge difference in the up top power compared to that of the 2g head and IM I would keep it with out a dought. its well worth the 60 bucks to get it to operate.

 

[EagleTalonTim]

anyone know the answer to my previous post? I keep finding manual differences, but nothing on auto

 

[gsxeclipse97]

yes these is a difference between them the fwd flywheel is larger than the awd.. so you will have to buy one from autozone or something..

 

[Boostin91TSi]

I would recommend using the Cyclone manifold only if you have the AWD tranny. If you have a FWD tranny, just keep your USDM manifold. If you use a Cyclone with FWD, you will get quite a bit more wheelspin that you already are (I'd know). Yeah, sure the torque down low is great, but you are only messing up your car if you keep getting wheel hop.

 

[Black_Bullet]

I would recommend using the Cyclone manifold only if you have the AWD tranny. If you have a FWD tranny, just keep your USDM manifold. If you use a Cyclone with FWD, you will get quite a bit more wheelspin that you already are (I'd know). Yeah, sure the torque down low is great, but you are only messing up your car if you keep getting wheel hop.

Wheel hop generally means you need better motor mounts........ Prothanes..
Then better tires and good suspension set up and the awd half shaft axle and itd be good to go.... Id know, i used to have fwd....

 

[EagleTalonTim]

I have the AWD, but the transmission went out last night. Not sure why either :
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=271545

 

[eclipsh]

Unless it got junked by my friend's uncle, I have a JDM GVR4 auto tranny sitting around you can have cheap. It came with my JDM cyclone motor. No transfer case for you but I'm sure you have that.

By the way, flywheels are for M/T cars. Might be why you're getting some odd answers in this thread.

You may have to change out the dust guards at the top of the engine or may not. I'd mate up the trans and check everything before it goes back into the car.

I'd also clean up all the vacuum lines etc and replace them with new ones while it is easy to get at. I'd probably move the vacuum canister for the intake manifold up to somewhere it is easy to get at in case you need to do anything with it too.

To swap out harnesses you'll have to pull the dash and the A/C on the passenger side. It is a PITA but very do-able. For that matter, you can just leave the old harness loose hanging out the engine bay, leave the new one attached and just run it in through the firewall later (unless you need the car running right away.)

 

[vettesmoker]

if its all wheel drive, then it matters.. the starter and flywheel are different from FWD to AWD.. ummmmm... you might be cool with the cyclone IM if it comes with the 16g to match.. ... I have no idea about the wiring harness.. if its a true 4g63t with a cyclone mani, then its from an evo 3...

to sum it up..

if the JDM motor came out of a AWD, then you need to use your talon's starter, flexplate, and torque converter... which you already have

The cyclone IM is a pain in the arse to get to work, but I have heard good things about them when they do, like alot more low end power and a smoother power band...

the search button is your friend.. If im not mistaken, there is HUGE thread all about them.. see what you find..

i know its like 20 years later, but to anyone reading this, evo 3 is a 7 bolt, if its a 6 bolt with a cyclone, its either a gvr4 or evo 1 or 2.

 

[brandon1261990]

well i have a cyclone on my 4g63t motor and it is a really annoying intake i switched mine back to a multi and have never had a problem since then