LOUD Tapping on Built Motor??? I'm Stumped...

[sLoGSX]

Well, I just put my built 6 bolt in and it has loud tapping. originally thought it was lifters, but i have brand new redesigned lifters. My car literally sounds like a diesel truck right now. I tried driving to get it to go away, but after 30 miles its still there. It seems as though it has actually gotten louder as the time has went by. I swapped out the lifters and put in the old ones and it's just as loud. I am running 20w50 non synthetic and did prime the motor before intial start-up. I even pulled the lifters, cleaned and oiled them according to vfaq and put them back in, before swapping back to the old ones. Below is a list of everything I had done at the shop. Any ideas of what my problem may be would be very useful.

Ross Pistons .30 over on Big Rods
Upgraded Springs & Titanium Retainers
Valves were checked and surface was grinded down slightly
New Valve Seals
Entire Head & Block Hot Tanked and Cleaned
Crank Polished
All ACL Bearings
Rotating assembly was balanced and assembled

BTW, the sound is coming from the top of the motor and is not the sound of a bearing issue. I have spun bearings and this is not the same sound.Thanks.

 

[Defiant]

Balance shaft bearing?

 

[blue1]

Hows your oil pressure?

 

[BOOSTIN21]

rod knock? rev the engine to about 3 grand if the knock continues let off the throttle if the knock goes away than comes back just before idle you might have bad rod bearings

 

[StreetThisDSM]

Bad timing belt tensioner??

 

[TSIfreek]

Are you getting oil to the head?? Take the oil cap off and check while the engine is running you should see flow and spray comming out. Could be a possibility. What were your bearing clearances? You checked them right??

 

[half-cocked]

Does it ever quite down at all? Whats your piston to wall clearance? If its too excessive it could be piston slap with you having forged pistons. Piston slap makes it sound like your driving a diesel car.

 

[hose101772]

WRIST PIN!

Try adjusting the timing up and down with it running and see if the sound changes.

 

[sonicnofadz]

sounds like piston slap to me. Does the sound go away when the engine warms at all, or does the sound at all depend on the engine temperature?

BTW: Who built your motor? You live in the same area as me, hopefully you had a reputable machine shop (one who specializes in the 4G63) build the motor. The only machine shop I've been to in maryland that I would trust building a six bolt is jackson auto machine.

 

[BOOstGhost]

i had the same problem, i wasn't getting oil to my head because i forgot to put a copper washer to the line that hooks up to the head, are you leaking oil??

 

[pianoman]

you have a new T-belt tensioner?

 

[sLoGSX]

Forgot to mention that the Balance Shaft is removed.

The t-belt tensioner is not new, and in fact is something that I overlooked and was going to be getting soon either way.

I am getting oil to the head and my oil pressure is very strong. I am running a new front cover and oil pump gears. I am not getting any knock either (DSMLink). Eveything seems to be running fine, just outrageously loud.

 

[TSIfreek]

Forgot to mention that the Balance Shaft is removed.

The t-belt tensioner is not new, and in fact is something that I overlooked and was going to be getting soon either way.

I am getting oil to the head and my oil pressure is very strong. I am running a new front cover and oil pump gears. I am not getting any knock either (DSMLink). Eveything seems to be running fine, just outrageously loud.

Have you talked to JAM about your problem?? What is the clearance on the pistons?? Is it louder cold? Does it get better when the RPMS are raise with the car in neutral? Is there a crankscraper on the motor?

 

[fp-green-95tsi]

Actually Jason the tensioner was new on the last motor. Well less than 1000 miles new i should say. I beleive it's a valve train issue, the tap is so bad it can be felt with the hand on the valve cover. It's not related to temp, taps the same cold as it does hot. The tap does not go away with rpm's no matter if you rev it for a while then let it idle. It's def. getting oil to the head, it will come out the cap if you remove it when it's runing. The wrist pin idea does sound logical considering the whole bag of clips that were left over from the machine shop. There is no crank scraper on the motor.

 

[TSIfreek]

I agree its a valve train problem also from the info posted. I would take the valve cover off to make sure all the rockers are in correctly and then I would remove the lifters and see if they are getting oil. There is a mesh filter screan on top ot the head that filters oil going to the lifters. I beleive its held down with 2 10mm bolts on the left side of the head check that to. Clean all the lifters out with brake clean solvent and soak them overnight in 20/50 oil. Once you get them back in dont let the motor idle run it around 2000 rpm to get good oil pressure up in the head to fill the lifter valleys up. You can also with the valve cover off and no lifters installed use a electric drill to turn the oil pump sprocket and see if for sure you are getting oil up there.
I cant really think of anything else it could be. Let us know what you find. Good luck it should be an easy fix

 

[fp-green-95tsi]

We have tried all you have stated except for the screen. All the rockers are on fine, we drained the lifters before re-installing them, to keep from having a piston to valve issue. Jason please try the screen tomorrow and let us know if anything changes.

 

[jesepes]

Hey, I read your problem and just thought I might throw in some of my own thoughts. This may seem far out, but maybe your baffle in the valve cover has been bent or moved down and is smacking the cam lobes. I personally would remove the valve cover and take out the spark plugs. Then run a wire from your starter solenoid to a switch or just touch it to the battery to watch the engine crank over. If the noise is there w/o the valve cover you'll at least be able to "see" something. Oil will not come blasting out of the head and make a mess everywhere at starter cranking speed ( I just did this the other day.) Give that a try. Thanks, and good luck.
-Jesse

 

[TSIfreek]

That would not be good with the cams he has. I dont think this is the problem but check into it. good Idea

 

[R3dR]

sounds to me lie the valves are hitting, mine sounded like your explaining and my timing was of 1 tooth on crank.

 

[half-cocked]

The car wont be running for long if that valves are hitting.

 

[RoasT BeeF]

sounds to me lie the valves are hitting, mine sounded like your explaining and my timing was of 1 tooth on crank.

Yup. Check your timing, I bet its off a tooth.

 

[half-cocked]

So if its only 1 tooth off they are just tapping and they are still good?

 

[RoasT BeeF]

So if its only 1 tooth off they are just tapping and they are still good?

Mine were. I only drove it for about 10 miles though.

 

[vertGST]

check your a.c compressor. sometimes the screws on the poully strip out and its a really lud tapping noise. happened to me. i pulled the little screws out put silicone on them and put them back in. no problems until 5 months later so i just cut the a/c belt off. it could be that.

 

[espinelli]

Is there more noise as your RPM's increase and less noise as they decrease? Or is it a consistent noise regardless of RPM?

If you think its valves, I would do a quick compression test and see where your at. If you have very low compression then you found your problem. I would also, double check the invoice part numbers that were ordered and verify that with the packaging or boxes each part came in provided you still have them. Hopefully all the bearings were correct. Something else that scares me is that you have left over parts from your forged pistons. Maybe Ross just likes to send out spares. Good luck.