Lots Of Smoke After Rebuild, Yes I Searched

[jott5555]

ok as i said i did search for this but didnt find a answer. i just did a full rebuild on my 6 bolt. it has 118 miles one oil change and im doin a compression check tonight.

the problem is this the car runs good pulls to 7 psi very well buy it smokes blue smoke like a son of a B**ch.. when it fully warms up it only does it intermitedly (sp). i pulled the mani and turbo for a diffrent reason yesterday and all the valves on the exh side had a carbon film on them but no standing oil anywhere.

any ideas? or anything ive left out let me know. i may retourque the arp head studs to make sure they are still all tourqued.

thanks for the help

 

[loreak]

i got my car runnin finally, 0 miles on the engine, im gonna start her up and go for a drive tomorrow, i was just plannin on driving around real nice for a while, nothing special.

 

[Doug99RS]

I still didn't see anything about the valve stem seals. Were they replaced or not? We've seen, quite regularly, that if the oil smoke is present at start up then it's probably the valve stem seals. Highly worn ones will leak ALL the time. If you've ever noticed the Chrysler minivans (old boxy ones and the 2nd generation) that pour out smoke at stop lights... that's the 3.0L Mitsu engine. There's a service bulletin out there to replace them and cut a groove in the guide. Once the new valve stem seals are in then the smoke goes away. Did you replace the valve stem seals or not? And can you list ALL of the parts you replaced and labor used for this "Rebuild"?
Doug

 

[jott5555]

i did the whole head. valve seals, valve guides, valves everything its doin pretty good now

 

[jott5555]

i thought i would bring this thread back up instead of start a new one

i went out and did a couple 3rd gear pulls and now god damn its smokeing.. harsh again.. im going to do another comp test tonight hopefully. i just dont know why this is doin this crap. its doing all the time from start up to shut down and even after a little bit.

is there a way to test the valve seals without pulling the head. also i was condiering it could be backed up pressure in the turbo. im useing a pte turbo and it has a rather large square oil return port.

i had to have a custom line made because the send me a defect when i got the turbo and the other are on back order. on the custom line the port is a little bit larger than a pencil so one thing that came to mind is that the small line isnt allowing the oil to flow enough, causeing it to go back into the exh system.

other than that and doing a leak down test. i cant figure it out.

 

[Doug99RS]

What about your PCV hoses and valve?

There is a way to check valve stem seals but it requires oil dye, a black light, and removal of the intake and exhaust manifolds after the engine has been run with the dye in it. There is also a way to remove the valve stem seals without pulling the head but it requires a set of bars that mounts to the cylinder head in place of the valve cover and an attatchment that then screws down on to the valve springs. You will also need to use either an air compressor with a hose attatched to it that goes in place of your spark plugs OR have each piston at TDC as you service that particular cylinder.
Doug

 

[jott5555]

what a pita.. ya the pvc valve is new.. so are the valve seals for that reason. i think tommrow ill pull the 02 and see if i have any resedual oil in it.

 

[Doug99RS]

Did you lube the valves when you put them in to the head? If the valves are pushed through the seals dry then it could rip the seals. It's kind of a stretch and I HAVE done this before (back when I didn't know any better) with no problems but I'm just throwing out suggestions now.
D

 

[jott5555]

i had my machinest port the head and do the whole head rebuild. so i imagine he would have lubed em.

im at the point that i want to just part it out and get ot of dsm;s

 

[jott5555]

alright heres a update

i pulled the valve cover and all the valve seals appeared to be seated properly. i put a new pcv valve on and it still smoked. so i pulled the o2 houseing and found a drop or so of oil in the turbo on the exh side and about the same amount of the intake side..

the only think i can think is im going to pull the head and have my machinest go over it again.

 

[pinknuggit]

sounds like your turbo seal might be bad.

 

[set3422]

i don't think this is the root cause. The root is from the blowby he's getting from the new rebuild. He should have broken in the fresh engine with a cheap turbo.

sounds like your turbo seal might be bad.

 

[jott5555]

ive got a used 14b comming tommrow. so that is whats goin on to see if its the turbo or not..

 

[pinknuggit]

if there's enough blowby to form drops of oil in his o2 housing, than he shouldn't be getting any compression. That's alot of oil. Also, blowby wouldn't be in the compressor outlet of his turbo. That means the leak is between the compressor inlet and the compressor outlet.

 

[jott5555]

well the thing that gets me is that its a brand new pte scm 50...300 miles on it.. it had better be replaced if it is the problem.

 

[set3422]

The blowby causes oil pressure to exceed 100psi at WOT. Run 100+ psi oil pressure on your turbo and see what happens. The oil would be in the compressor if he runs the BOV return tube back to the turbo intake pipe.

if there's enough blowby to form drops of oil in his o2 housing, than he shouldn't be getting any compression. That's alot of oil. Also, blowby wouldn't be in the compressor outlet of his turbo. That means the leak is between the compressor inlet and the compressor outlet.

 

[pinknuggit]

blowby has no affect on oil pressure at all. It would take insane levels (2-300 psi)of crankcase pressure to even have an affect on the oil pressure. Plus, like I said, if he had enough blowby to cause oil drops in his exhaust, he shouldn't have enough compression to turn the motor over.
I've seen brand new turbos blow with less than 50 miles on them.

 

[set3422]

Blowby has effect on oil pressure. Why oil would squirt out from dipstick tube and breather valve on motor with lots of blowby? This is especially true when you relocate the turbo oil feed to the oil filter housing on a motor with excessive blowby, the turbo would not last very long. I verified this with an Autometer Ultralite Oil Pressure gauge tapped on the oil filter housing. To make this matter worser, if the oil relief valve is stucked, oil presuure would be even higher at WOT on a motor with excessive blowby. Take this fact however you like because this is my last post on this thread.

Jott5555 did you relocate the turbo oil feed to the oil filter housing? This might be the problem. When you throw in the used 14b, tapped the oil feed from the head.

blowby has no affect on oil pressure at all. It would take insane levels (2-300 psi)of crankcase pressure to even have an affect on the oil pressure. Plus, like I said, if he had enough blowby to cause oil drops in his exhaust, he shouldn't have enough compression to turn the motor over.
I've seen brand new turbos blow with less than 50 miles on them.

 

[pinknuggit]

Blowby has effect on oil pressure. Why oil would squirt out from dipstick tube and breather valve on motor with lots of blowby?

I'm not tryin to argue.. don't look at it that way..

The reason oil and vapors come out of the dipstick is because of pressure in the crankcase. Since the dipstick tube extends right into the crankcase and not the oiling system, that makes sense, right? The only part of the oiling system that shares space with the crankcase is the oil runoff from the internals and the oil sitting in the pan. If it's before the oil pump, then air pressure in the crankcase should not contribute to raised oil pressure. You see what i'm sayin? It's like saying that if your gas tank has pressurized air in it, that it will raise your fuel pressure.
Oil comes out of the valve cover on any engine in any condition (pcv system, Positive Crankcase Ventilation). All the pcv is a method of crankcase ventilation. All engines in any condition have pressure, but the reason the oil dipstick blows out is because the dipstick is open to the crankcase and there is too much pressure in the crankcase than force holding the dipstick on. Oil has properties of adhesion like water, so if there is oil on the dipstick and pressurized air is past it, the oil is going to come out with the air. If you were to go to a new car dealer, take out the dipstick on a new car, it will spew oil and pressure out like an engine with blowby.
Blowby also does not have an affect on turbo life either. The oiling system is isolated from the crankcase and exhaust system.
The only thing that could result from high oil pressure is prolonged bearing life (in your turbo) and oil running past the turbo seals. If he broke in his motor and did not put a filter inline with the turbo oil feed line, some metal shavings could have damaged his turbo seals, and possible high oil pressure (from a messed up valve) would damage the seals more and allow oil to pass them.

like i said, i'm not tryin to argue, but i'm just trying to make sense of how the two systems are isolated from each other and have no relation.

 

[jott5555]

i do have the oil feed tapped into the oil houseing. so when i do the 14b i will do the stock lines and everything

the other thing i was thinking is i may have posted eailer that i had to because of time constrictions make a ss return line. well the opening on the pte is a rather large square port for the oil to return though well on the line i made the opening is not much larger than a pen in diameter.

so i was thinking that the oil could also be backing up in the turbo causeing the smoke.

either way i should have a 14b on there soon.