Look at how cheap the XS Power kit is now!!

[twack]

I know this isnt what you want to hear but when i got mine i didnt notice any extra lag, or psi drop, but still kept the air ice cold.
But what about what blackspoolin said about the air temp being at the maf, ive got the intercooler and a logger but thats it.

 

[JayRolla]

Even if its not as efficient as the top name cores, it works great and the price is what makes this kit stand out. The ebay core has been used millions of times with good feedback. I dont need more than that.

 

[Ludachris]

Even if its not as efficient as the top name cores, it works great and the price is what makes this kit stand out. The ebay core has been used millions of times with good feedback. I dont need more than that.

That's cool. I'm sure there are plenty of people who are fine with that too. But I'm sure some others would like to see more data. I'm just surprised that nobody else is asking for this info. Most people I know who are serious about modding want to see numbers. I guess if it's that cheap the numbers aren't as important. As long as it doesn't fail and does a decent job, that's probably good enough for most DSMers. Again, I'm just challenging the thinking here.

I'm always skeptical when something is very cheap, as most of the serious folks usually are. When something is very cheap it usually means that there was no R&D invested. Just because a lot of people are using it doesn't automatically mean it's a good solution, it just means it's cheap and a lot of people bought it. That's why actual data is important to some people. And it can't hurt having the info posted somewhere for everyone to see.

 

[95blackGsTurbo]

I think this kit looks better. Short route and looks like it will actually hook up right. Other than no BOV flange.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/95-9...190033734858QQihZ009QQitemZ190033734858QQrdZ1

I'm sure some of these kits would be a lot better if they had thicker piping but then again you could always just heat wrap the piping to keep it from heat soaking.

 

[JayRolla]

The 2g xspower kit is a short route and is way better quality than the one you posted. I know someone that posted about that kit and it was not good quality at all. Also the long route piping does not effect performance compared to short route, as I posted on the first page.

 

[SBstar]

Yes I know intake temps are measured at the maf, but I did mean taking temp readings near the throttle body. Should have been more specific but I was looking for details from Chris.

 

[JayRolla]

Well im going to try to do a test here. Im going to get a temp sensor and try to monitor my temps with my stock IC. Then try to monitor my brothers car with a 4" thick XOXO intercooler from ebay which have been known to be "good" quality also(never seen data on these cores either). My mechanic has a 1g for sale with slowboy's racing FMIC kit and see if he will let me test the intake temps on that car. Im thinking of mounting the sensor in the throttle body elbow and swap the elbow from car to car. I wont see flow efficiency but can at least compare the intake temps. Me and by bro's cars are about the same in setups and my mechanics is pretty much stock has exhaust and FMIC and thats it. What do you guys think?

 

[blcknspo0ln]

That's cool. I'm sure there are plenty of people who are fine with that too. But I'm sure some others would like to see more data. I'm just surprised that nobody else is asking for this info. Most people I know who are serious about modding want to see numbers. I guess if it's that cheap the numbers aren't as important. As long as it doesn't fail and does a decent job, that's probably good enough for most DSMers. Again, I'm just challenging the thinking here.

I'm always skeptical when something is very cheap, as most of the serious folks usually are. When something is very cheap it usually means that there was no R&D invested. Just because a lot of people are using it doesn't automatically mean it's a good solution, it just means it's cheap and a lot of people bought it. That's why actual data is important to some people. And it can't hurt having the info posted somewhere for everyone to see.

I agree 100% chris. Although I do have to concede that I was one to buy this kit because of the tremendous feedback on the kit, not the numbers provided (if there was any at all) . All the same, I guess the only arguement for these knock off cores is that the r&d has essential been done with the actual REAL kits. This 2g FMIC kit from XSpower is a mirror image of AGPturbo kit, right down to the physical dimension. Obviously the bar/plate structure had to have been modified (and probably the material used), but I'd automatically assume that XSpower bought a real AGPturbo kit and copied it, as with most knockoff companies.

 

[Coup D E'Tat]

I'm just surprised that nobody else is asking for this info.

Because those of us who challenge it will never buy one, and those buy one will never challenege it.

For data reference, I like the guy who posted "the piping is polished nicely." These are all that the cores are about. Looking good for no money.

Saying that the intercooler kept cool really doesn't say anything, either. I'm not a fan of the choked, narrow end tanks, and I've also seen two of these cheap-o eBay cores corrode horribly after a PA winter, and dent like it was going out of style. My friend and I, who both run Garrett cores, look brand new, with the same amount, time, and styles of driving (actually, I'd venture to say that we're a bit harder on our cars than those with the eBay cores.)

 

[SBstar]

Say that to our moderator who is running 11's on one...Not to get on your case but just because its cheap/inexpensive doesn't mean its crap. Honestly I would run one based on his experience since he's someone I trust to know good quality. I would however like to see some actual numbers just out of curiosity. At the end of the day for the price it still seems like a good deal considering the amount of people who are happy with it and have run decent times with them and have had no problems. Could they benefit from a more well known respected one, perhaps, but the cost would go up greatly as well.

 

[Coup D E'Tat]

Say that to our moderator who is running 11's on one....

He's more than welcome to post here, but you and I both know, one person running X MPH, HP, ET, whatever, doesn't hold water. Guy's have went 10's on pump and 10's on 14b's, but that doesn't make it "right" or "good."

 

[SBstar]

You have a right to your own opinion. I referred to one person I know personally who has done it, look through the link I posted and you'll find many, many others running ebay fmic's doing decent times. No one is saying they are as good as the name brand ones, but we're trying to figure out if it is decent enough for the price it is at. For some it isn't proof enough that many are happy with the results they have had with it, they want numbers.
I appreciate the experience you shared about your buddies fmic though, that goes to show the aluminum may not be the highest quality if your driving you car in the winter where it will experience salt on the roads. And it also helps to know the material seems to dent easily. I appreciate that.
I have no idea what you're trying to get at saying that one person doing something doesn't hold water, someone running 10's on pump or on a 14b is an innovator showing that something can be done. It doesn't mean everyone can do it sure but it does show it can be done.

 

[suicidal2af]

I'm not a fan of the choked, narrow end tanks, and I've also seen two of these cheap-o eBay cores corrode horribly after a PA winter

The endtanks are a direct clone of the AGP race core's tanks, and nobody has ever badmouthed AGP's.

FWIW, aluminum is aluminum. It's fairly thick, looks to be similiar to SBR's as far as endtank and fin thickness from my non-scientific point of view.

Point is, you're badmouthing something because it has no evidence of good quality yet. By the same token, it has no evidence of bad quality either.

I've got this fmic, and I've got the ebay exhaust. People badmouth both, but thus far I've had nothing but good experiences with them.

If someone wants to pay to get this flowtested, I'd be more than willing to take my core somewhere. However, surgery to remove cancer from my 3 month old son doesn't leave me with a lot of money to throw at frivolous things like flowtesting products, so don't expect me to go and do that.

 

[Coup D E'Tat]

The endtanks are a direct clone of the AGP race core's tanks, and nobody has ever badmouthed AGP's.

I had to leave after I posted that, and I knew someone would bring that up before I got back

I was referring to the 1G core with the side to side tanks.

Apologies for the confusion.

Aluminum is aluminum? Since when?

 

[RavenX]

I have had a spearco core and I now currently run a ebay fmic. Its not the xs kit though. Anyway ive made 400whp with this intercooler and i have no regrets. I made my own custom piping and everything came to be about the same as a xs kit. Frankly i don't see the need to spend upwards of $700 for a fmic kit. To me as long as the core does it job i am happy. I have friends with almost the same exact setup as me and they have the sbr fmic or some other name brand and we all are flowing about the same. I would love to show you guys some logs before and after with dsmlink but i just recently moved-_- so everything is still packed. In either case everyone has their opinion about these kits and the quality. To me however it was because i just wanted to try it out. Had the intercooler been garbage i would have had a SBR kit or something by now. But its really holding its own and ive done numerous 30psi passes with nothing bad happening and the fmic still looks brand new.

 

[wishihadatalon]

SBstar I think its important for you to remember that these things are made of cheap aluminum and michigan winters will cause these things to have no fins (I know people who have had this happen). Also various factors such as fins per inch and fin design are important. I agree these things are crap and I would never recommend one to anyone I know. Will it work? sure as it has been proven. Will it work the best that something else with the same dimensions could? I would say no.
So flame suit on and bring on the comments about shiney pipes and good fitment

 

[Ludachris]

Honestly, I don't know if these cheap cores use the same aluminum as the big name cores. You'd have to think they'd be cutting costs somewhere. Using thinner metal could be one source of savings - we don't know unless the specs are given. The main reason for my posts was not to say that these cores are crap or that they can't perform decently - it seems that a number of people have had good results with them. I'm simply trying to get some real world flow and temp numbers posted - something that should be important to every serious DSMer out there. It might not be important to some of you who just want to go fast on the cheap, but some of us would like to see how these cores flow compared to the tested cores out there. That's what this site is for - to help educate people on data like this. It's not all about identifying the absolute cheapest part, it's about doing research.

We should all be demanding quality products for our cars. Cheap knock-offs are good in some ways, but they're not always going to be the best choice and they end up hurting our market. The more business we send to cheap knock-off companies who don't provide test data, the fewer products that will be made for us by the companies who actually do the R&D. Some of you don't care about that, but those of us who plan on owning our DSM long term want to make sure that there are still quality products being made for us 5-10 years down the road for the knock-off companies to copy.

I'm not saying these cores are bad. I'm not saying they don't perform. I'm asking people who endorse them to find out the flow and temp data so that we can all be educated on this subject. If we're going to hurt the businesses who do the R&D by buying knock-offs, we might as well have some data to show for these products. It's in the best interest of all DSMers.

 

[JayRolla]

SBstar I think its important for you to remember that these things are made of cheap aluminum and michigan winters will cause these things to have no fins (I know people who have had this happen). Also various factors such as fins per inch and fin design are important. I agree these things are crap and I would never recommend one to anyone I know. Will it work? sure as it has been proven. Will it work the best that something else with the same dimensions could? I would say no.
So flame suit on and bring on the comments about shiney pipes and good fitment

All I have to say is I live in Colorado and we have some crazy weather here. My mechanic has used the XOXO cores on all his kits he makes and none have corroded. Yes the bend up a little easier but not that bad. He also said the XS cores are from the same company as the xoxo cores and they are made in Austrailia i think. Anyways he has built a car running 650whp on the xoxo side to side 4" core with no problem. I dont know why people are bad mouthing the core so bad when everyone has only good things to say that own them. Even if they are not as efficient it most likely wont be noticable at all.

 

[Ludachris]

I've only seen one or two people in this thread saying it's cheap and uses less quality materials. That's not really bad mouthing. If anything it's little more than speculation. Problem is, we don't don't know without specs. I just want to see data.

Again, I post the same thing I've been saying for two days now:

Honestly, I don't know if these cheap cores use the same aluminum as the big name cores. You'd have to think they'd be cutting costs somewhere. Using thinner metal could be one source of savings - we don't know unless the specs are given. The main reason for my posts was not to say that these cores are crap or that they can't perform decently - it seems that a number of people have had good results with them. I'm simply trying to get some real world flow and temp numbers posted - something that should be important to every serious DSMer out there. It might not be important to some of you who just want to go fast on the cheap, but some of us would like to see how these cores flow compared to the tested cores out there. That's what this site is for - to help educate people on data like this. It's not all about identifying the absolute cheapest part, it's about doing research.

We should all be demanding quality products for our cars. Cheap knock-offs are good in some ways, but they're not always going to be the best choice and they end up hurting our market. The more business we send to cheap knock-off companies who don't provide test data, the fewer products that will be made for us by the companies who actually do the R&D. Some of you don't care about that, but those of us who plan on owning our DSM long term want to make sure that there are still quality products being made for us 5-10 years down the road for the knock-off companies to copy.

I'm not saying these cores are bad. I'm not saying they don't perform. I'm asking people who endorse them to find out the flow and temp data so that we can all be educated on this subject. If we're going to hurt the businesses who do the R&D by buying knock-offs, we might as well have some data to show for these products. It's in the best interest of all DSMers.

 

[JayRolla]

Im not saying you where chris. You had a valid point right off. The other people turned it into bad mouthing, saying they corrode, and fall apart. My brothers core is about 3 years old and still looks good. Even if it did corrode I can buy 3 of these cores for the price of a name brand one. I mean look at the intercooler design, not much to mess up except welding and none of us are saying the welds are bad.

So for $200 shipped to your door for an entire FMIC kit is just awsome. even if the core is not as efficient and wont last as long, but ive never seen a problem out of 30 or more kits my mechanic has installed. My mechanics machinist has a flow bench for his head porting, how would you flow test an intercooler, because I really want too?

 

[SBstar]

SBstar I think its important for you to remember that these things are made of cheap aluminum and michigan winters will cause these things to have no fins (I know people who have had this happen). Also various factors such as fins per inch and fin design are important. I agree these things are crap and I would never recommend one to anyone I know. Will it work? sure as it has been proven. Will it work the best that something else with the same dimensions could? I would say no.
So flame suit on and bring on the comments about shiney pipes and good fitment

Yes I agree with you, but honestly is it smart to run any FMIC with our winters? Seems like nearly all of them would corrode with the crap they put on our roads (at least up north here) My dsm is only used at the track so this wouldn't be a problem for me anyways. I also thanked Coup D E'Tat for sharing that info. I'm still with Chris wanting to know some actual real world numbers but it seems to me most who have had them/used them seem to be happy and have noticed gains of one sort or another. I do agree with Chris however that we do need to also think in terms of supporting a company that does little R&D which will hurt the companies that have put years of research behind their products. This is part of the reason I will never say they are up to par with "insert name brand we all trust" fmic's. I must admit that I would be interested in getting one if my Supra SMIC does not work out well for me though just because of cost alone. I'm running a 14b so I'm not really all that worried about flow just yet. But when and if I can afford it I do plan on stepping up to something better (PWR liquid to Air or perhaps a Buschur or SBR fmic). But I have at least a year or two before I could drop that kind of money at one time for one part. If this kit could get me by until then why wouldn't I try it out?

 

[JayRolla]

Also like I said before, if its a bad core, I just spent $179 for polished piping, which can be cut down to short route if I wanted to. So if the core sucks, I can spend the money for a real core and im only out the 179 for piping. RIGHT?

 

[SBstar]

Also like I said before, if its a bad core, I just spent $179 for polished piping, which can be cut down to short route if I wanted to. So if the core sucks, I can spend the money for a real core and im only out the 179 for piping. RIGHT?

Makes sense, but from what I've heard/read the piping is fairly thin, so be careful how hard you clamp down on it. I bent some vibrant performance piping which is what I would consider very thin, I don't have first hand experience with the piping in these kits but I would guess its about the same. You really don't have to clamp down too hard though, it was just a mistake on my part.

 

[JayRolla]

Thanks, ill do that. Someone I talked to said the piping was actually pretty nice with great welds. When I receive I will let you guys know.

 

[wishihadatalon]

Thanks, ill do that. Someone I talked to said the piping was actually pretty nice with great welds. When I receive I will let you guys know.

Is it aluminum piping? Any aluminum pipin I would be careful clamping to hard. Good beads will help with pipes blowing off more than a super clamped coupler. Good luck with your kit.

One more thing to add about the corrosion is just think of high quality aluminum and our sidemounts. A good core will be made of thick quality aluminum like this and last for several years. Also in CO do they use salt? In Michigan, detroit is on a salt mine so its a must to use salt.