little help diagnosing this motor

[Hitmachine101]

need a little help guys with this motor
heres the compression

185 145 000 105

the guy before me said he drove the car ( barely ) to his buddies shop and it overheated for about the last ten miles,

there is no coolant in the car
there in no coolant mixed with the engine oil however so thats good

He said he was burning it right out the tail pipe

The head got so hot that the wire set actually melted to the spark plugs, all 4 of them, which was fun to get out by the way haha

SO im guessing this head is toast

Assuming it was simply a bad head gasket at first Im real worried this head is screwed now to

I plan on taking a framing square to check the edges
any other ways of checking this head besides taking it to a machine shop where ill easily drop 200 when i can simply buy a used head here for that

just trying to save some money

Thanks guys

 

[95talongirl]

At this point, I'd say you might be better off finding another engine to work with. It sounds like this one was overheated to the point where it will end up being very costly to fix the warpage or and cracks that may have occured. Although not as common, due to the block being cast iron, it *is* however, possible to warp the block. I have seen this firsthand on an engine that I had that came with a shell.

But if the block checks out good, then you could probably find a good cylinder head fairly cheap.

That's a bummer that he drove the car that far with no coolant and overheating.

 

[92AWDHX40]

Heads are cheap, i would find one and rebuild it just to make sure its up to par.

 

[Darris]

Sounds like a mix of many problems at once but you get a new head your good up top refresh the bottom end also

 

[Guilty1s]

i had a similar incident... was leaking coolent on a 25 mile rebuild that i didnt know about... over heated till the piston melted a whole in the side. I also melted the sparkplug boots. I was trying to be cheap and reuse the head on a new block as it only has 25 miles on it. I set timing and everything was fine... it went through the motions fine. Later when i went to install the torque convertor bolts, i was getting piston/valve contact and didnt know why.. everything was fine while setting time... I pull the valve cover to find 3 random valves sticking down. Im 99% sure it was from melting the valve stem seals or atleast heat damaging them...

Not to mention, these alumiunum heads can warp easily with heat.

get it checked out and make sure no cracks and it is square, replace valve stem seals and just make sure all the valvetrain is in spec and you should fine.

 

[Hitmachine101]

At this point, I'd say you might be better off finding another engine to work with. It sounds like this one was overheated to the point where it will end up being very costly to fix the warpage or and cracks that may have occured. Although not as common, due to the block being cast iron, it *is* however, possible to warp the block. I have seen this firsthand on an engine that I had that came with a shell.

But if the block checks out good, then you could probably find a good cylinder head fairly cheap.

That's a bummer that he drove the car that far with no coolant and overheating.

ya the kid wasnt the sharpest tool in the shed, im praying the block isnt screwed

I guess the best thing i could do is make sure a/the head is fine and throw everything back together get a compression test again and see how those numbers come bakc

i had a similar incident... was leaking coolent on a 25 mile rebuild that i didnt know about... over heated till the piston melted a whole in the side. I also melted the sparkplug boots. I was trying to be cheap and reuse the head on a new block as it only has 25 miles on it. I set timing and everything was fine... it went through the motions fine. Later when i went to install the torque convertor bolts, i was getting piston/valve contact and didnt know why.. everything was fine while setting time... I pull the valve cover to find 3 random valves sticking down. Im 99% sure it was from melting the valve stem seals or atleast heat damaging them...

Not to mention, these alumiunum heads can warp easily with heat.

get it checked out and make sure no cracks and it is square, replace valve stem seals and just make sure all the valvetrain is in spec and you should fine.

Ya i just need to get a head that hasnt over heated, aluminum heads can get small heat cracks and im sure

assuming the compression comes back over 130 across all 4 pistons and within 10% of each other then I should be good?

Sounds like a mix of many problems at once but you get a new head your good up top refresh the bottom end also

the bottom end sounded tight and smooth so assuming the rings are ok, should be good on the bottom end

Ive picked up a gst with a spun rod bearing, that was some funny noises coming from the bottom end, midget with a sledge hammer like

i had a similar incident... was leaking coolent on a 25 mile rebuild that i didnt know about... over heated till the piston melted a whole in the side. I also melted the sparkplug boots. I was trying to be cheap and reuse the head on a new block as it only has 25 miles on it. I set timing and everything was fine... it went through the motions fine. Later when i went to install the torque convertor bolts, i was getting piston/valve contact and didnt know why.. everything was fine while setting time... I pull the valve cover to find 3 random valves sticking down. Im 99% sure it was from melting the valve stem seals or atleast heat damaging them...

Not to mention, these alumiunum heads can warp easily with heat.

get it checked out and make sure no cracks and it is square, replace valve stem seals and just make sure all the valvetrain is in spec and you should fine.

how much would a shop charge to analyise the head?

 

[Morris]

I would get a refurbished head and switch your parts over, I wouldn't trust it. Your block should be good, but it doesn't hurt to have it checked. But with a OEM headgasket any discrepancies in the block should be seal.

 

[buhay6]

If you got an aluminum head and melted the spark plug wires to the plugs......its toasted in all honesty get a new one. Check your cylinder walls and pistons out to because if it got as hot as you say it did good chances are those rings might have melted a little and caused other damage.

 

[Hitmachine101]

If you got an aluminum head and melted the spark plug wires to the plugs......its toasted in all honesty get a new one. Check your cylinder walls and pistons out to because if it got as hot as you say it did good chances are those rings might have melted a little and caused other damage.

Ya once i pull the head ill check out the block and I was thinking the same thing with the OEM headgasket,

this is def not a block to put a ton of boost on but for a daily drive I hope to be able to get it runnin again

And ya im along the same lines of thinking with the head getting that hot, i turned the motor over by hand and everything moves smooth so the valves didnt melt the guides or anything that extreme but Im thinking along the lines of the head now has several cracks in it and is warped.

two questions I have along with this process:

1. Do i need to use any copper spray with the head gasket or any other material once i clean the surfaces of the block and the head? I know with some motors they recommend a supplement

2. And i know the answer to this is get new head studs or hell buy the ARPs but can i re use these head studs? the motors never been apart so this will be only the second torque down

 

[danielbo91]

If your motor was overheated that bad you shoulf get head bolts/ head studs changes are they strech already,i have a 6 bolt head in really good condition pm if want it...

 

[LiquidX]

Like everyone else mentioned, get a new head. I would also advice pulling the motor and having it's surface re milled and to ensure the rest of the internals are fine. Pull some caps off the crank and rods and take a look at the surfaces for any heat spots (unlikely but 10 miles of no coolant overheating will call some damage).

You may also want to check the cylinder bores for roundness.

The block may come out fine, but it may just be better to get a whole new block or just strip it and get it completely checked out as well as the internals.

 

[way2fastlaser]

COAT THE DECK FIRST ! a thin coat First make dam sure its clean no oil or any residue on the surface wipe it down with brake cleaner till you put a dry paper towel on the surface and no oil or debris.

coat the head lightly and let both them set up about 5 min coat em both a lil more generously lay the head gasket down on the deck and put the head on wile the copper spray is still wet .. torque to stage 1 and let sit overnight
then Finnish your sequence the head gastket will take a lot more to blow


im still holding 28 psi on a hx40 my stock head gasket and ### arp head-studs that are stretched

 

[JusMX141]

All of the heat is generally contained in the head, so I'd say the head's probably junk. Overheating that seriously can warp the head beyond repair, as well as cause the exhaust valves to seize to the guides which is likely what has happened to that cylinder with no compression.

The chances that the low end is OK are fairly decent, especially if there was no coolant being sprayed into the cylinders. Without oiling damage, your block is probably fine...although while the head is removed it's not much work to drop the pan and remove the pistons to inspect for broken ring lands, etc. I've refreshed more than one engine without even removing it from the car.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[Hitmachine101]

Like everyone else mentioned, get a new head. I would also advice pulling the motor and having it's surface re milled and to ensure the rest of the internals are fine. Pull some caps off the crank and rods and take a look at the surfaces for any heat spots (unlikely but 10 miles of no coolant overheating will call some damage).

You may also want to check the cylinder bores for roundness.

The block may come out fine, but it may just be better to get a whole new block or just strip it and get it completely checked out as well as the internals.

OK thanks for the idea and info ill take some time and give the block a good check over

COAT THE DECK FIRST ! a thin coat First make dam sure its clean no oil or any residue on the surface wipe it down with brake cleaner till you put a dry paper towel on the surface and no oil or debris.

coat the head lightly and let both them set up about 5 min coat em both a lil more generously lay the head gasket down on the deck and put the head on wile the copper spray is still wet .. torque to stage 1 and let sit overnight
then Finnish your sequence the head gastket will take a lot more to blow


im still holding 28 psi on a hx40 my stock head gasket and ### arp head-studs that are stretched

coat the deck with what?? high temp rtv red silicon? the other info looks good thanks for sequence

and again what should a machine shop charge to take a look at the head? just give me a ball park so i know what to expect

 

[92AWDHX40]

many vary in prices call around and go from there thats the only way for know for sure, call some shops in your area for quotes cant be too much at all.

 

[Hitmachine101]

ok new issue, cant get the head off, all head bolts are out, timing belt is off, everything hooked up to the water neck is disconnected

I was literally standing on the car pulling from the intake elbow and the exhaust cam gear and i can t get this thing to budge,

thinking my options are rubber hammer or maybe a wooden wedge to go inbetween the head and block right around the exhaust mani area???

anyone else with a bright idea to help me get this thing off ha ha man this head must of gotten hot to semi weld itself to the block like this

and ill look up some machine shops and see whats up, just on a budget rebuild here so hopen not to much

 

[calob_95tsi]

If I recall correctly when my head was checked earlier this year it didn't even cost $35.

 

[Anubis_4_99]

ok new issue, cant get the head off, all head bolts are out, timing belt is off, everything hooked up to the water neck is disconnected

I was literally standing on the car pulling from the intake elbow and the exhaust cam gear and i can t get this thing to budge,

thinking my options are rubber hammer or maybe a wooden wedge to go inbetween the head and block right around the exhaust mani area???

anyone else with a bright idea to help me get this thing off ha ha man this head must of gotten hot to semi weld itself to the block like this

and ill look up some machine shops and see whats up, just on a budget rebuild here so hopen not to much

Sometimes it can take a good smack with a hammer and some type of wedge to seperate the head from the block, even on a normal rebuild. Just dont use a flathead or anything like that, it could cause damage to the deck.

Most vehicles i've worked on have a brace between the intake manifold and the block, check to see if there is one there or not. If there is that could be whats holding you up. If not then recheck everything, coolant lines, exhaust, headbolts, etc.

 

[Hitmachine101]

If I recall correctly when my head was checked earlier this year it didn't even cost $35.

oh ok thats manageable, just didnt want to have to pay 80 dollars for an analysis of the head when i can buy another one for 125 without cams

Sometimes it can take a good smack with a hammer and some type of wedge to seperate the head from the block, even on a normal rebuild. Just dont use a flathead or anything like that, it could cause damage to the deck.

Most vehicles i've worked on have a brace between the intake manifold and the block, check to see if there is one there or not. If there is that could be whats holding you up. If not then recheck everything, coolant lines, exhaust, headbolts, etc.

ya a friend pointed out theres guides between the block and head so i think prying up would help my cause with a wedge or something

 

[Hitmachine101]

figured it out, it was the freaking bracket on the back of the intake mani,

The gst i did work on about 2 years ago didnt have that bracket or if it was there, there were no bolts in it so i didnt have to worry about that the first time i ripped a head off a 2g, thanks for the advice, the heads off and now its time to clean everything and see whats up with the compression and what not,