Leaking Oil!!!!

[SoloBaricCLipse]

I just got my car inspected today and i found out that i have a broken head gasket (again, i had the Mitsu. dealer replace it less then 2,000 miles ago) and i have a rusted oil pan that needs replaced. i was wondering if there are any kewl head gastets or oil pans that you guys would reccomend. Is it possible to increase performance by adding one of those products. I am a ebay shopper and have a very very limited amount of money so i cant get anything reel expensive. of course i have a 96 eclipse with a 420a engine.

 

[Doug99RS]

The headgasket is probably not leaking if it was just done 2,000 miles ago. You probably have a cam sensor seal leaking or an oil pressure sending unit leaking oil.

Some headgaskets out there are performance enhancing if they can be increased in thickness to lower compression. The ones for the Eclipses, both 4g63 as well as 420A are not like this though. The best gasket for the job on these engines is the Multi-Layer steel headgasket.

The shape of the oil pan on both these engines is also well designed. They are shaped like a baseball cap turned upside down. This provides limited space for the oil to slosh around in meaning it won't slosh on to the crank and slow it down. You MIGHT be able to find someone else out there but unless you're talking about a dry sump system, it's not worth the money to invest in it.
Doug

 

[GSGoinFast]

The headgasket is probably not leaking if it was just done 2,000 miles ago. You probably have a cam sensor seal leaking or an oil pressure sending unit leaking oil.

Some headgaskets out there are performance enhancing if they can be increased in thickness to lower compression. The ones for the Eclipses, both 4g63 as well as 420A are not like this though. The best gasket for the job on these engines is the Multi-Layer steel headgasket.

The shape of the oil pan on both these engines is also well designed. They are shaped like a baseball cap turned upside down. This provides limited space for the oil to slosh around in meaning it won't slosh on to the crank and slow it down. You MIGHT be able to find someone else out there but unless you're talking about a dry sump system, it's not worth the money to invest in it.
Doug

hey doug, would a crank scraper be a good investment for him?

 

[SnoopySLR]

How good do those Crank-Scrappers work?

 

[jott5555]

i am also curious about this.. i have to pull my pan soon and i may want to make a scraper..

 

[SilverEclipseT]

I believe Moroso makes an aluminum oil pan for our car. It is a little deeper so you can hold a little more oil. I believe these already have a return line put in them also for future turbo charger needs.

 

[Eclipsemblue]

check your rear main seal, mine was leaking from there. OR even your oil pump may be leaking i heard that to be the most common spot to leak. They do sell aftermarket oil pans i saw one once on ebay but im afraid i dont remember who made it.

 

[SnoopySLR]

Those Moroso Oil pans rock, but they hang down too low. My buddy had one, but got rid of it cause he was scrapping it on the ground....

 

[Kevin Johnson]

How good do those Crank-Scrappers work?

We don't have dyno figures for the Mitsubishi 4G63/64 engines but the Honda B-series showed up to 2.5% hp increase depending on rpm. That is pretty significant considering that the B-series already come with a full windage tray.

Church's dyno in L.A. ran tests on the D16 scraper (no windage tray but has a huge girdle structure that could be considered comparable to the 2g engine). They saw results ranging from 1.5% to 3% depending on rpm.

Our own dyno testing of the Metro engine showed a 3% average hp increase (data over four pulls ranged from 2.4 to 3.5%). The Metro also has a full windage tray which the Mitsubishi engines lack.

On a Metro list a guy running a scraper on a G13B DOHC 16V had an increase in hp but was worried because his oil temp dropped. Worried? That is proof that it is converting wasted engine friction into hp.

Everyone running a turbo should carefully study the stock Nissan VG30TT oil pan on our homepage. That engine has a full girdle like the 2g and the pan has scraper devices all over the place plus a windage tray plus a sump baffle plus a kickout. Nissan is seriously into windage control.

Kevin

 

[Kevin Johnson]

An inexpensive way to do this would be to buy some directional screening from Moroso or Canton and form half a cylinder (or arc) that clears your bottom end but at the same time doesn't dip into the oil. That in itself will help a great deal. Make sure that you attach the screening securely to the pan in several places on each side.

i am also curious about this.. i have to pull my pan soon and i may want to make a scraper..

 

[GSGoinFast]

We don't have dyno figures for the Mitsubishi 4G63/64 engines but the Honda B-series showed up to 2.5% hp increase depending on rpm. That is pretty significant considering that the B-series already come with a full windage tray.

Church's dyno in L.A. ran tests on the D16 scraper (no windage tray but has a huge girdle structure that could be considered comparable to the 2g engine). They saw results ranging from 1.5% to 3% depending on rpm.

Our own dyno testing of the Metro engine showed a 3% average hp increase (data over four pulls ranged from 2.4 to 3.5%). The Metro also has a full windage tray which the Mitsubishi engines lack.

On a Metro list a guy running a scraper on a G13B DOHC 16V had an increase in hp but was worried because his oil temp dropped. Worried? That is proof that it is converting wasted engine friction into hp.

Everyone running a turbo should carefully study the stock Nissan VG30TT oil pan on our homepage. That engine has a full girdle like the 2g and the pan has scraper devices all over the place plus a windage tray plus a sump baffle plus a kickout. Nissan is seriously into windage control.

Kevin

just so you know, this is the Non-turbo section, so we dont have mitsubishi engines, we have chrysler ones.

 

[Kevin Johnson]

That's better yet. Chrysler uses a scraper as stock equipment on the SRT-4 (yes, that's a turbo). Ed Peters was a failure analysis engineer at Chrysler who worked on the windage losses in the predecessors to the 420A (S4RE or D4RE) and 2.4. He recommends scrapers.

Also, the Mitsubishi 4G37 is a non-turbo base engine in DSM's.

just so you know, this is the Non-turbo section, so we dont have mitsubishi engines, we have chrysler ones.

 

[GSGoinFast]

That's better yet. Chrysler uses a scraper as stock equipment on the SRT-4 (yes, that's a turbo). Ed Peters was a failure analysis engineer at Chrysler who worked on the windage losses in the predecessors to the 420A (S4RE or D4RE) and 2.4. He recommends scrapers.

Also, the Mitsubishi 4G37 is a non-turbo base engine in DSM's.

the non turbo 1g's are mostly 4g63's, but this is the 2gnt section, which is all 420a's

 

[Kevin Johnson]

I guess I get a distorted view since I look at cars in the wrecking yards -- a sea of 4G37 equipped cars. The ones that have the 4G63 base engine are usually snatched up quickly.

The 2gnt also used the NA 2.4 (Mitsubishi 4G64) in the Spyder.

the non turbo 1g's are mostly 4g63's, but this is the 2gnt section, which is all 420a's

 

[SnoopySLR]

jeez, Chris. Does it matter that much that he's talking about 4g63's in here?
I guess people are really liking them. I might invest in one... why not, can't hurt anything (unless the mechanic didn't measure it good enough when he cut it out)

Jott5555, I didn't really read your post that good the first time.... Don't try to make one. These things come within mm of our crank... you would want something hitting your crank. Unless you work at a machine shop or something, don't try to tackle that on your own... too much could go wrong.

 

[jott5555]

oh if i was going to attempt makeing one i would use a feeler gauge and make it out os 12 gauge. ive done a lot of machine work and if i was going to do that i would have someone a lot more knowlagable and intelligent watching over my back during the whole process.

i think im probally going to just order one form crack scrapers.com for 50 bucks and same myself a head ache. but i have recently read some threads that reflect badly on the scrapers.. as far as crank bearings and starveing them.. MORE FEED BACK PLEAS!!!!

 

[Kevin Johnson]

I honestly don't know why that builder was having troubles with rod bearings. Scrapers help the oil return more quickly to the sump. Remember that association is not causation. You should visit the Porsche forums and read about the common bearing failures on the 944 and 928 engines -- even pro-built engines -- when people race them. Oil starvation problem but scrapers are part of the solution.

When I started making these I had no idea how much of my time would be spent trying to defend a product that has already been proven in so many ways. I did not invent scrapers -- they really, really have been around for at least 40 years. I show a pic on the site of a STOCK Ford 390 pan with a scraper mounted on the bottom. That's 1961 (43 years ago).

I think that what happens is people focus on just the engine in their particular car. If they don't see what they think is a scraper then it must be a bad thing or the factory would have included it. I went through something similar with the engine in the Miata (BP). Very, very, very skeptical people (not all of them, though!). I understand that. I pull and examine a lot of engines and *surprise* I found a BF engine that had a scraper built in from the factory. (The BP is a stretched bore center version of the B6/BF.)

I have spoken with a retired failure analysis engineer from Chrysler (Ed Peters). He worked specifically on windage problems. He is a customer.

Read our eBay feedback (sammi1228). We have sold around 1300 scrapers in the past couple years and, honestly, this is the first time someone has tried to say (that I am aware of) that they caused bearing problems.


Kind regards,

Kevin

oh if i was going to attempt makeing one i would use a feeler gauge and make it out os 12 gauge. ive done a lot of machine work and if i was going to do that i would have someone a lot more knowlagable and intelligent watching over my back during the whole process.

i think im probally going to just order one form crack scrapers.com for 50 bucks and same myself a head ache. but i have recently read some threads that reflect badly on the scrapers.. as far as crank bearings and starveing them.. MORE FEED BACK PLEAS!!!!

 

[jott5555]

thats really strange u mention the 928. my uncle races them and i own one.. and he had a bearing go out while on the track so he has built and installed a scraper for his 928. IM going to buy one just waiting for the money to transfer..

 

[Kevin Johnson]

If your Uncle's name is Louis then we have been corresponding re his mods to the sump in the 928.

Small world, huh?

thats really strange u mention the 928. my uncle races them and i own one.. and he had a bearing go out while on the track so he has built and installed a scraper for his 928. IM going to buy one just waiting for the money to transfer..

 

[jott5555]

ya, that would be him.. i just recently got some pictures of his stroker setup and my jaw dropped.. that intake setup is one heck of a monster. they tested it on mark thomas's car and it threw out over 500hp or something..

i may head up there this weekend.. what a Coincidence

heres some pics of his setup...