Is it worth it to buy a car with a possible bad syncro?

[rusty959]

Hello to all.
I have found a local 93 talon tsi for sale that looks to be fairly good. More specs at the bottom. It drives well but one thing comes up; you have to shift into second before you can shift to first but shifting into anything else is fine. Ive done some searching and learning and it seems a syncro could be bad, but I haven't found anyone who has had a problem only going into first. Short of damaged shift linkage, is there anything else I can look for to see if it is a big problem or not? Everyone says that the transmission will eventually go bad and new fluid just extends it from needing replaced... is this a something relatively likely to happen soon or a year or two in the future? (obviously you can never say for sure)

Car: 1993 talon tsi
126k miles, 105 on the engine
added 3k miles back: act 2600 clutch, timing belt/tensioner, 16g turbo, a quite large intercooler, piping/random hoses, bov, boost control, o2 sensor, rear rotors and pads, front pads, 255 fuel pump, new head with arp studs, and maybe anything im forgetting.
Body is in alright shape, could use work, and tires are shot.
He is asking $2500 firm.

Thanks for any help you can provide.

 

[TSIfreek]

A rebuild for our tranys usually runs 1500. Yea sounds like the tranys tired. sounds normal for an old dsm. I recomend shep trans out of ohio.

 

[juanpac0]

A rebuild for our tranys usually runs 1500. Yea sounds like the tranys tired. sounds normal for an old dsm. I recomend shep trans out of ohio.

You can get a rebuild at jack's for only $600 or so, and I'm sure he can find another one locally for around 300 that's in good working condition. Most people don't really need a stage 2 shep tranny (or whatever you'd get from him for $1500).

 

[AlaskanDsm]

If you are looking at buying a DSM, think of the initial price a starting point of your investment into the car. You have to, otherwise you'll want to get rid of it fast. So if the tranny is getting old, then you have to have it rebuilt! might as well drop a sweet setup into it and never have to worry about it going bad or breaking on you!

 

[rusty959]

Thanks for all the help guys. So it seems to be the general consensus that it is a syncro problem and couldn't be linkage or something?
One thing I question is that it is only going into first gear... Does anyone know how the syncros are linked? Meaning if it is having problems going into first gear, is it likely soon get worse and be going into second gear etc?

 

[eclipsh]

With a 1g a worn clutch pedal assembly is always a possibility. So is a poorly adjusted clutch. A dragging clutch could cause issues going into first and reverse quite easily. I'd check for all the above if I were you.

 

[rusty959]

Thanks.
The clutch doesn't disengage until an inch or two off the floor, so yea I guess that could be pretty likely as well. He did replace it all himself so I guess it would be pretty easy to have something a bit out of alignment. Ill definitely scope it out.

 

[eclipsh]

It is less alignment than it is bad adjustment and wear. If you aren't familiar with the problems 1g clutch pedal assemblies develop you should check it out by following this link. Look most of the way down the page under 1g clutch adjustment.

If it is only an inch off the floor there is a good chance the clutch is dragging. Depending on how long that has been going on it could also mean worn parts inside the tranny. Is it FWD or AWD by the way and how handy are you in the garage?

 

[rusty959]

Dang. So if this is the problem and it is wear, if I can keep it from grinding by going to second before first, in theory the wear shouldn't be accelerated more too badly? Thanks for the link, a lot of helpful info.

It is a FWD, and I can do about anything I need to do. Sometimes I am limited by tools, but if its important I can get it.

I guess basically I just need to decide if the car is still going to be worth $2500, and if so get it and work from there.

 

[kottyking]

At the best, if you wanna call it that, you have to try doing some adjusting if it only is engaging a small amount off the floor ie: replacing clutch pedal assembly, new clutch / slave cyl. At worst your looking at a transmission build. The question is, is either scenario worth it to you? If so, buy it. If not, don't buy it and try and find a better one.

 

[eclipsh]

For what it's worth you can find decent AWD cars for around the same price. They may not have the same mods but the grip is unbelievable. I'm betting you were getting a lot of wheel spin with that setup on a FWD. FWD can be great fun and is lighter weight but I personally feel the added grip is worth the weight penalty.

If you are really handy lately I've been suggesting hitting salvage yards for something with a blown/missing engine/fried ECU that is otherwise mostly intact. If you can get it cheap (three digits) it is a great place to start so long as you have to funds to build a fresh engine/tranny right off the bat. That way you have a reliable car with minimal "issues" for a good base line to add future mods on. My wife and I picked our last two cars (Corolla and Galant) out of salvage yards and couldn't be happier with the choice.

If you really like the car you're looking at you probably already know to check for the other basics: compression, oil/water mixing in the radiator/oil pan, wheel bearings etc. Other questions: How much boost is the current owner running? Have the injectors been upgraded? Does he have an aftermarket fuel pressure regulator to go with that 255 pump?

I just bought a 1/2 syncrhonizer hob/slider and 2nd gear rings for my AWD tranny rebuild. T.R.E. has good prices on awd parts, not sure on FWD. Even so, once I got into my tranny I ended up needing to spend $700 to get it up to snuff. That is with me doing all the work. Just something to keep in mind when you're looking at any of these cars that you know have been driven hard.

 

[rusty959]

Yea kottyking thats what I am trying to decide. Im going to be looking at it later today so will hopefully decide by then.

And thanks again eclipsh. I have kept that idea circulating a bit in my head and after reading your post yesterday did a lot more looking around for something like that. The only issues that arise are a) even though im in college I am still a dependent on my dad. Therefore, he feels he can still make the decisions, and he tends to not like the idea of a car I have to fix to run b) I have a 67 mustang im restoring that I would love to still have my primary project. (and the fact it still isn't running doesn't help a, )
But I have checked some of that, Ill do the rest and a good deal more here in a few hours when I go out to see it. Right now he has it set at 21 psi or so. Im not sure what to think about it being that high, I sorta feel like its a bit much but he does have a little bit of modification to support it so it might be alright. They are stock injectors, and he has a fpr he is including, but it isn't hooked up. That would be one of the first things I do besides getting tires.

 

[eclipsh]

If he is running 21 psi on stock injectors I'd be worried. I'm fairly certain the stock injectors can't handle that much airflow. Neither can the stock MAS unless he has the car chipped or some other tuning modifications done. There is something fishy going on or there is a lot more done to the car than is coming across.

Honestly, if you already have one poject car that isn't getting done and you're a (broke) college student I'd say go pick up something mildly fun but reliable. I graduated with my BA in '07 and I'm back for a BS now so I know how much it takes to do well in college. In my opinion two project cars is one too many while you're in school. I'd really suggest you pick up something like a (gasp) Civic coupe or Celica simply because they are still fun but they'll be reliable. Get your car fix on the one project you've already got. Oh, and I"m not an old fuddy duddy either, I'm only 29 so I get where the desire for fun cars is coming from but I promise the less things you have to stress out about right now the better off you'll be. School, money, one project car, girls and a social life are more than enough to keep any young guy busy and stressed out as hell.

 

[rusty959]

yes, I stand corrected on the injectors. He has some 560cc injectors from an evo I believe he said in it. And yea it has a 3" gm mass airflow sensor in it.

I definitely see where you are coming from there. Fortunately for me, I'm still in the stage with the mustang that it is just a lot of labor and not a massive amount of money. Obviously that will eventually change. That being said, as far as my dd I don't plan on going buck wild with performance parts. With the car the way it sits it already has too large a problem with wheelspin, so I don't really see how much more power would help any. Sure I could lay down the power once I get to 80mph or so, but there is no track local to me, and I should try to keep from killing myself. This is just my theories, so maybe im wrong and will screw everything up, but then ill just have to try harder,

Anyways, long story short, I got the car today. Hopefully this transmission holds up for me. He says it has been like it is for around a year or two now, so im hoping best case scenario is it doesn't get worse. If it does, ill get to have some fun replacing it. ....Or getting an awd with a shot engine and throwing stuff in. Here should be a fairly comprehensive performance mod list:
o2 housing dump./2g ported exhaust manifold (not sure if this is the correct terminology here)
2.5 in down pipe
16g turbo
Pretty large FMIC
3" gm MAF
560cc injectors
255lph walbro fuel pump
slightly lowered
boost + a/f ratio guage
2600 lb ACT clutch
Turbo xs RFL BOV
2g throttle body intake elbow
ARP head studs
short throw shifter

Incase this thread dies with this, I definitely want to say thanks to everyone that posted, especially eclipsh.
and a couple pics:

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Yea that is paint on the piping... Might be switching that out eventually. He did include some chrome piping with the car that should be enough so it shouldn't be too cost prohibitive.

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Could probably use some heat shielding on that o2 wire...

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Bumper warped a hair when he cut it out... so Ill probably do something to clean it up a bit.

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He also is including some lowering springs for the rear, ill probably throw them in too.

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[eclipsh]

Nice. I'd say for $2500 you did well. There is no 2g manifold on there by the way. That is an aftermarket tubular manifold and tubular O2 housing.

Yeah, the blue paint looks pretty awful. You can probably take the pipes off the car and use paint stripper to clean it off. If it were mine I'd buy some black wire loom and replace the blue there too along with pulling the valve cover and stripping it or repainting it better.

Congrats on the new ride. I hope you have fun with it

 

[rusty959]

Alright thanks, like I said I didn't think that made perfect sense, so now I know

Yea I might get to doing it sometime this summer. Ill probably do some stuff with audio first though... We will see.

But thanks again, I hope its an enjoyable car to own

 

[kottyking]

Is that a huge crack on your exhaust manifold, where it meets the hot side of the turbo?

 

[AlaskanDsm]

You talking about that funky looking metal piece on the flat section? That piece looks out of place... haha.

 

[rusty959]

Yea, that is probably that piece of metal you are seeing... Doesn't look like it has any great use. But yea.... id say I would have a problem boosting 20+ psi if that was a crack.