is e85 and water/meth pointless?

[kidtsi]

Haha thats pretty legit.


Hey i'm majoring in engineering so I know big phrases too .

What's better for the car then, the 100% cooling of water or the 100% usage of meth?

50/50 from experience, 100% meth didn't allow me to pick up alot of timing, i had never used 100% water, but i'll use it with the nozzle near the intercooler instead of the trottle elbow.

 

[TSi Kid]

If I have a gm maf can I spray before that or does it have to be after?

 

[kidtsi]

If I have a gm maf can I spray before that or does it have to be after?

After, If you want the most out of the water/meth injection kit do 50/50.

 

[TSi Kid]

After, If you want the most out of the water/meth injection kit do 50/50.

where do you have your nozzle at then? Because my gm maf is right next to my throttle body.

 

[kidtsi]

where do you have your nozzle at then? Because my gm maf is right next to my throttle body.

in my 95 on the throttle elbow.

 

[TSi Kid]

Alright, well if I can get my ish together and save up some money i'll definitely be looking into a setup like this.

Maybe even get rid of my front mount.

 

[dsm-onster]

WOW! I'm still trying to figure out what "predetonation" is . . .





Actually, Meth cools better than water injected when presented with the meager heat of a turbo compressor way off the map, lets say 450ºF or less; which is astronomical in aircharge temperature terms, but minor in liquid-to-gas (state) change for water.

Why is meth better here?

Because the rate of absorbtion is still partially determined by the surface area of the absorbing material, **not just the specific heat**. The finer the mist, the more the surface area by an exponential increase. This means that whatever breaks up finer being misted makes the most difference, even though water itself has a higher specific heat (ability to absorb heat). The water has not as much potential, though it has more ability, because as mentioned by a math wiz , it cannot break apart as effectively (higher surface tension). So you have methanol, which breaks apart VERY well; and then, though being less effective at absorbtion, can absorb more quickly because it has more surface area in mist form.

AND ALSO, There's another reason why alcohol is better in the intake track. Because alcohol evaporated much sooner than water in the temperature range. . . OR we wouldn't have moonshine from stills . State changes are what make things work the most efficient in all injection systems.

Where is water more effective?

Remember, efficiency comes down to state change. It becomes more effective in the combustion chamber. Yes, it doesn't come apart as well being misted. But breaking it apart takes much energy. And much heat energy is released in the combustion chamber. Thus, It literally "sucks" the heat out of the combustion chamber converting from fine droplets to steam, especially during the highly heated compression stroke. This is because enough heat is actually presented to alter the state of water. from liquid to gas. Much less is required for meth. Since enough heat is presented for both to change states, the one that takes out the most heat at that instance is most effective. And being that water has a higher specific heat AND higher surface tension, it does so. It makes things move more slowly and more "methodically". (slows burn rate). Thus, the "effective" octane is greatly altered.

Both have their place and potential. But for the sake of cooling aircharge alone, meth is king. Noone can cheaply get water misted to a fine enough droplet to do better. And meth ALSO adds octane to the fuel charge directly. It has an octane of 120ish. And 10-30% meth will significantly alter the actual octane of the total fuel ingested.

 

[TSi Kid]

Both have their place and potential. But for the sake of cooling aircharge alone, meth is king. Noone can cheaply get water misted to a fine enough droplet to do better. And meth ALSO adds octane to the fuel charge directly. It has an octane of 120ish. And 10-30% meth will significantly alter the actual octane of the total fuel ingested.

Thanks for the information, on all of my recent threads you've been a great help. You've got to be one of the most active wiseman on this site. Great help on this great site.

 

[dsm-onster]

Thanks for acknowledging the efforts. I just love playing with these cars and science they present. And glad to be a help. Have fun and be safe. And take everything here, even what I have to say, with a grain of salt. Even science is an opinion . But that's why this site steps up to the plate like few others. We all here love to talk DSMs and expect differences to fuel understanding.