intake + header + catback = Huh?

[DSM_Kommando]

I'm pretty new to the DSM, although I had a 94 Talon TSi AWD years and years ago, I really didn't do anything to it.

Flash forward to now, I picked up a 1998 Eclipse RS 2.0 that I got for a song.
It's bone stock, clean, runs great, but bone stock.

I know this is a long intro, but bear with me....

I bought this car for my son, who's just turned 16, because I'm leaving for military duty overseas for a year, and I'd really like to make it better looking, but at least slightly better performing too (without getting a turbo, I purposely got a NT automatic...hey, it's his FIRST car, c'mon).

To the point... I did a little research, and it seems cold air intake, headers and catback are the way to go to get (albeit minor) performance increase, and at least make it sound and look the business (again, he's 16, chill....).


Now, I ordered a BOMZ cold air intake cheap off ebay (I know, I know), and was looking at the Megan racing header and SRS catback and noticed that between the header and the exhaust it looks like there's either 2 catylitic converters or just wayyy too much pipe going on here (I'm no mechanic to say the least). My brother-in-law works at our local muffler/brake shop and will be doing all the work.. I'm just curious if I'm paying for parts that are either unnecessary or...?

Gimme some suggestions, thoughts, ideas.

 

[timm98gst]

you're probably noticing the resonator which is inline between the catalytic converter and the muffler on the stock system - most aftermarket systems don't have this and don't need it

 

[DSM_Kommando]

Here's the header:

<a href="http://s115.photobucket.com/albums/n320/In_Metropolis/?action=view&current=meganracingheader.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n320/In_Metropolis/meganracingheader.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

Here's the catback:

<a href="http://s115.photobucket.com/albums/n320/In_Metropolis/?action=view&current=SRScatback.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n320/In_Metropolis/SRScatback.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

So, the (forgive my ignorance) part of the catback that's "extra" is the resonator..and the part on the header is the...?

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

OH! You're confused.

That 'laced' bulge from the Header is the Flex-Tube. All exhaust systems (should) have that. It allows flex from when the engine torques when you give it gas, causing flex in that portion of the piping so the exhaust system doesnt bend, crack, or snap.

The BIG bulge on the other picture is the CAT.

EDIT : Sorry. I lied

See the far right pipe? That's a straight-pipe. >> If I'm not mistake.

The LARGE pipe.. is the end of the exhaust, what you would assume to be the muffler. See the one in the middle? That's what I'm addressing. See how at the top there's a large "U" bend? That's where it comes up over the axle and runs to the rear of the car.

 

[knochgoon24]

Actually, the bulge in the catback system is a resonator (the one that's obviously not the muffler). Most systems will either have you reuse your stock cat or eliminate it all together.

 

[DSM_Kommando]

Awesome, Ok I completely understand now. So, given a choice, would you recommend keeping or removing the cat (in MI, we don't do emissions tests here...)

Pros? Cons?

Thanks, for the fast replies...this forum came highly recommended, and now I see why!

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

Actually, the bulge in the catback system is a resonator (the one that's obviously not the muffler). Most systems will either have you reuse your stock cat or eliminate it all together.

Yup yup, I caught myself as soon as I posted it.

This one eliminates the CAT. The far right piece is the straight pipe which eliminates the cat, and the central part is the Muffler/End/Blah.

^^

Remove the CAT. it restricts air-flow. It's technically illegal... buuuuut... I don't know many people who use a CAT if they don't ABSOLUTELY have to. They use a straight/Test cat.. which just looks like one, but doesn't have the internals.

Pros? Sounds better. More HP. Less Exhaust restriction. Lighter.
Cons? Sounds different... Some people don't like it?

 

[DSM_Kommando]

Oh yeah, that cat is GONNEEE! HAHA! I mean, the muffler has a "silencer" in it, so unless I remove that, it can't be TOO loud, right? ...Unless you're gonna tell me there's more HP/TQ if I remove THAT, too....

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

Now you're pushing into Honda Tech.. xD That's not a compliment.

With the NT 420a, you're not going to get a whole lot of HP. Period. There is a ton that you can do to increase in small incriments, but you won't have to worry about your son killing himself in it.

One thing you can look into is a larger Intake manifold. I used to have a friend who did a full exhaust, Intake, Intake Manifold, and it actually made a world of difference in his car. Still no 4G63, but it was decent for a 420a.

Do NOT, try to turbo this thing. >>;

Intake (Cold Air Intake. Relocate Filter to get out of the heat-area of the engine bay. Larger intake manifold.)
Note : If you can get the intake routed to the wheel well... it makes a pretty awesome " Shwwwaaaa" noise when you accelerate.
Exhaust (You've got this covered)

 

[DSM_Kommando]

Thanks for explaining the "Honda" thing to me... at first I was like "Sweet"...then I was like "Awww" haha!

Yeah, I picked up a cold intake already from eBay... Paid $60 for it (hope I didn't get hosed)...

It's a "Bomz" ? Link: Mitsubishi Eclipse NT 95-99 Bomz Cold Air Intake Kit : eBay Motors (item 150418980583 end time May-29-10 10:11:45 PDT)

Given there are so damn many, and the price range varies so much...I'd like to have gotten a K&N (which I'm familiar with) but da-damn! the price is nutz, and I can't see it being that much better (again, I'm no mechanic...haha).

 

[nothingfiction]

pretty awesome "schwaaah" noise? . that just sounds funny. Got any audio of what this sounds like so we can hear it?

And "routed to the wheel well" is pretty general. got pictures of exactly where?
(that's like hey can you get into my purse and pull out my ID? ...is it to the left? right, inside? outside zipper? bottom? top? ...now your just rummaging through and being disrespectful

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

STFU Becka. xD if you wanna hear that noise, you know damned well you can just call and I'll do my best to make it.

Let me take a lo-.. Dear GOD.. O___O Two pieces of piping, a clamp, and a Filter for $80ish?!

xD I love the 11% off thing...

Nah, considering you don't have the resources that most of us do... you're good with that. when i say route it to your wheel well... when you take out the filter box.. there is a hole that goes through the frame and into a section that is protected (mostley) from mud and such. Use a saw or something and cut the hole out a little more. Use a coupler and put your filter on the underside of it. Brace it under there so that it doesn't ever fall. Use a bracket or anything. I can sketch something up and show you if you'd like.

You can always 'upgrade' to a K&N for better air-flow... but keep in mind that you aren't really increasing power by just adding a filter/CAI on. If you have the money.. get these mods on and take it to a reputable shop and have them tune it. They can help match the fuel needed with the added air flow, otherwise all you're getting is better response time.

Check out Nothingfiction's list of mods. She has a pretty damned good setup for the 420a.

 

[nothingfiction]

Kommando: that looks like the one i have except mine is by Megan Racing as my catback exhaust is too. if they use they same specs as the MR one theres a few things to look at before installing it.

1: for best fitment you route the longer pipe first then attach the filter onto the short pipe then use a coupler and attach them together. i can get pictures for you if you would like.
2: using this method the filter sits way low. (it will literally be in the drivers side air vent, the vent next to the fog light assembly) and since it is so low it is more likely to get hydrolock.
3: you can just use the short pipe or the long pipe (reverse direction on the long pipe and it will still fit)
4: the long pipe has a notch in it for the breather hose just like the short pipe does. you only need one breather hose... technically you don't even need that, you can just get a tiny breather filter if you wanted to. the long pipe's breather sleeve is not the correct size and will need to be capped or cut off, filled and sanded (the second is what i did)

and to answer the hondah tech question... you are trying to get as much HP as you can with minor bolt-ons. the "resonator" is nothing more than a silencer. you can put it in and take it out of the "muffler" with just a single screwdriver. i never run with it in, and the bolt holding it it has walked out and going about 60mph the silencer blasted out off my exhaust. i found it on the side of the road a few days later. think of it like a motorcycle baffle. you get this new exhaust and try to limit it and keep the resonator in it. it's a catch 22 honestly.
Just my .002

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

Pay attention to what she said above. o.o ...

I suppose I can also be more detailed besides bolt-on tech.

If you have the time, money, and want... take the car to a shop and have them do a Valve and port job on your head. Upgrade the valve train a bit. This will also help prolong engine life, increase response, and open up HP.

 

[Chaosweaver]

Becka knows a lot about the NA DSMs... Its probably because she couldn't afford a turbo one, BUT that's a bridge we'll cross when we get to it.



I'm kidding XD




A set of minor bolts ons should be good, stay away from the electric superchargers btw, they DO NOT work. I bought one for the wife's car as a joke and I think it lost performance. It all depends on how much you wanna spend bro, if you give us an idea for a budget we'll be able to help.

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

Becka knows a lot about the NA DSMs... Its probably because she couldn't afford a turbo one, BUT that's a bridge we'll cross when we get to it.



I'm kidding XD




A set of minor bolts ons should be good, stay away from the electric superchargers btw, they DO NOT work. I bought one for the wife's car as a joke and I think it lost performance. It all depends on how much you wanna spend bro, if you give us an idea for a budget we'll be able to help.

Careful. >_> She's..

A : Armed Forces
B : Probable to hunt you down and kill you. xD She always tends to text me at like.. 1AM like " What're you doing? "

Take someone with military weapons access and an Insomniac on top of that.. talk about their car.. and you'll likely lose an arm. >__>;;

But yes! A budget would be very beneficial.

 

[Chaosweaver]

!

Its all gravy, I can hold my own .

 

[nothingfiction]

My first DSM was a 1.8 NT Eclipse i picked up for less than a nickel in Pennsylvania (it was the closest one i could find in my price range at the time)... Coming from friends with Hondahs i tried some of their upgrade paths (fartcan, intake) that's when i noticed the 1G DSM's have the MAS in the pathway of the air intake. Pissed me off but i really liked the style of the Eclipse. the Tranny went out on it so my dad and i bought i Laser with a blown engine and we just swapped everything i wanted to keep.
Now back to that damn MAS... i decided to use the stock intake from the blown engine to fix a CEL. Now i had a perfectly good running Laser... But the Laser wasn't what i wanted (i'm a girl... deal with it. So what i'm picky). So i looked around and now a bit older and have a steady job i could have got a brand new (at the time) off the show room floor 2003 Eclipse... But that's not what i wanted. the ONLY thing that interested me on the 3G is the shark fin look. i really loved the smooth lines and curves of the 2G Eclipse though. i could have bought a handful of Talon TSI Turbos... But once again, it's not what I wanted. There's something about that smiley face front fascia that makes me laugh and want to punch clowns. Don't know why but they do. So i waited it out... Saved up more and more till i finally gave up and went to a used car dealer to find me a 2G Eclipse for me. They asked if i had any preferences as to what i wanted... i said NONE i am sick and tired of waiting and looking! Just make sure it isn't green and it HAS TO BE a manual transmission!!! (the first eclipse and laser were both green and my car before that was too... green is so last never ago in my eyes... Not to mention i see and wear it every single day for work). the Dealership found me a red Eclipse RS in Nabraska (current car) and so far i am happy. Sure i would have loved to have got a GSX. But i'm not all too picky. i'm just happy to have found a 2G Eclipse in general. and even now... Want to take a guess how many DSM's i see in the area?

One really sh***y black primered Eclipse
One decently decked out Eclipse GS-T who seriously need to work on his fiberglass bodykit
One bone stock Talon ES-I
2 1st Gens
and Mine.
a total of 6 DSM's. So as you can see... they are rare.
but theres about 10 3rd gens floating around, and a couple of 4th Gens too.
Obviously Mitsubishi isn't too big here. Hell, i've only even seen ONE Eagle Vision .

(i know you were just joking... But i thought i would share this anyways. it's all good.

 

[Chaosweaver]

I bought the Talon because the GSX was in pieces all over my back yard. I first started out with American muscle, LOVED it, then got into Hondas, realized how ### they are, now I'm in love with DSMs. To be honest this is the only type of car that has ever made me think of suicide... So I think I'm going to be into DSMs for a long time, even if I end up getting an evo down the road, its still part of the DSM family.

 

[DSM_Kommando]

Let me take a lo-.. Dear GOD.. O___O Two pieces of piping, a clamp, and a Filter for $80ish?!

I got it for $70... I saw one piece ones, 3" ones...yeah, I did'nt research it out much. I DID see that the one I got was at least a name brand... one I've never heard of, haha, but at least they have some kinda reputation to uphold.....I guess.

Yeah, sketch me out how you put your Megan Racing one on.

If you have the time, money, and want... take the car to a shop and have them do a Valve and port job on your head. Upgrade the valve train a bit. This will also help prolong engine life, increase response, and open up HP.

Again, forgive my total lack of mechanical ignorance...but is that a "rebuild"? That's one thing in my quest for bolt-on fame and fortune I kept coming across was "rebuild kits" for the DSM's. The kits seem reasonable...but I'm guessing taking it to a shop could be 'spensive?

Another thing I saw on this "quest" is performance spark and wire kits. Is that something unnecessary for the 2.0 N/T?

I did score some factory sideskirts and lower door moldings (all 6 parts) on c-list today and found the mounting hardware on dsmgraveyard.... Now, if I can figure out the best way to mount them right the first time, I can send this thing off to paint!

....I knew I shouldn't have watched that marathon of "Overhaulin'"!! HAHA

 

[nothingfiction]

Yeah, i will go out and take some pics of the diferent ways you can set up the MR one. looks to be the same to me. Maybe i will find some new ones i haven't ran yet too.

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

I got it for $70... I saw one piece ones, 3" ones...yeah, I did'nt research it out much. I DID see that the one I got was at least a name brand... one I've never heard of, haha, but at least they have some kinda reputation to uphold.....I guess.

Yeah, sketch me out how you put your Megan Racing one on.



Again, forgive my total lack of mechanical ignorance...but is that a "rebuild"? That's one thing in my quest for bolt-on fame and fortune I kept coming across was "rebuild kits" for the DSM's. The kits seem reasonable...but I'm guessing taking it to a shop could be 'spensive?

Another thing I saw on this "quest" is performance spark and wire kits. Is that something unnecessary for the 2.0 N/T?

I did score some factory sideskirts and lower door moldings (all 6 parts) on c-list today and found the mounting hardware on dsmgraveyard.... Now, if I can figure out the best way to mount them right the first time, I can send this thing off to paint!

....I knew I shouldn't have watched that marathon of "Overhaulin'"!! HAHA

Nope, we call that a head-job *nudge*

A rebuild would consist of new/polished pistons. Polishing the Crank. New Bearings. Near Seals. New Piston rings. New Belts. New Oil Pump. New.... well.. everything. It's stripping the engine down to the block and putting NEW parts in it to build it back up to a complete engine. Be they new stock parts, refurbished parts, or aftermarket parts.

As I said, there are tons of small things you can do to improve performance. The Upgraded spark is always nice. A good heat range with reliable spark is ALWAYS good. When you're talking about your intake.. you're wanting to get air as quickly as possible, and as COLD as possible to the engine. ANY creative way that looks nice and is effective where you can get both of the above goals.. do it. I've seen people cut a slit out of the front of the hump on the hood and make a sort of RAM-AIR intake system... actually doesn't look half bad to me.

Now for the exhaust, that will simply be a bolt up thing. It'll route where it needs to go. Get some upgraded suspension parts, V-Directional tires, lower it an INCH OR TWO... not EIGHT. Negative out the camber just a bit... This will result in better traction and handling.

 

[DSM_Kommando]

I just noticed series of marks in my driveway indicating I have a leak of some sort... it's not oil, so I'm assuming it's trans fluid (dude I bought it from just replaced the trans). Off to check fluid levels... damn.

 

[Cassera]

I would recommend getting a full 2.5 inch exhaust instead of a 3 inch seeing as the power on the car isnt going to be that significant to get a full 3 inch.

I think it will work great with a 2.5 inch if you don't plan on upgrading once intake and exhaust is done.

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

I would recommend getting a full 2.5 inch exhaust instead of a 3 inch seeing as the power on the car isnt going to be that significant to get a full 3 inch.

I think it will work great with a 2.5 inch if you don't plan on upgrading once intake and exhaust is done.

Good catch!

I was running without an exhaust, strictly from the Flex tube back was gone...

The moment I got a load of backpressure up, the car ran soooo much better.

You want to open up restriction, but keep good backpressure on the engine.