I'm looking for some guidance with my 99 eclipse gs.

[rush2252]

The least you can do is try I guess. Good luck

Here is my point about matching modded parts etc. Phill is running a 50trim @ 8psi I was going to reference this in relativity to 1/4 times but you dont have any posted... but hes running a 50 trim @ 8psi a good match to high compression NA motor rather than the lower compression higher boost applications of factory turbo cars. Ive seen guys slap big turbos on NA cars and then run like 5lbs and wander why they got no bang for their buck. Its about effeciency and making parts benefit each other. Big turbo seems like lots of speed but if you cant get the boost to where its most efficient then it wont matter if your running a huuuuge turbo or not because a smaller more efficient turbo will spool faster and be more beneficial.

 

[rush2252]

I need to be up in a few hours so I am heading to bed but I will get you a list tomorrow if I can find it. the short list for what you want to do....

Throttle body 60mm there is no reason to go aftermarket intake as there is no better or worse intake out there. !!!they all Sucks for our cars!!!!

Stroker 2.4 kit.... howels automotive has them and well as CI motorsports.

Ported head w/ 1mm over valves (or you can buy one from CI motorsports go there and look at what they have)

Valves, Cams, PT cruiser lifters and rockers, spring kit with ti. retainers( go with ti retainers because you want the reliability only the only other advantage is high rpm range you can not get there with a stroker) Adj. Cam gears,

Aftermarket electronics, fuel management, larger fuel pump and injectors I would go with 245cc injectors that will be big enough to handle the added air flow of the head port.

And like I said you will be looking at close to $5500 for this setup..... depending on if your friends have a machine shop and how much work they are doing vers how much you will have to have an outside source do.

Why would you want to run the stroker NA? That kinda defeats the purpose.. Lowering compression and increasing stroke will kill performance I remember my friend telling me about a guy that built a stroker w the 1.6 and 1.7 honda motors he was stoked taht he was the first to get it going but even with a decked block and head the compression was retarded low. I would shy away from this big chunk of investment. And last I heard the first guy to do this said it was a HUGE waste of time with little beneficial results.

 

[Redwan]

why not just swap a 6bolt 4g63t motor with a 14b turbo and tranny, don't really have to do much to it to get 210hp on the wheels..you could also work on the internals and anything else you want that way at some point if you feel like you want more power, than you don't have to do the swap, you can just upgrade on mods and ect.. much easier and cheaper...i think thats the way you should go..

 

[rush2252]

why not just swap a 6bolt 4g63t motor with a 14b turbo and tranny, don't really have to do much to it to get 210hp on the wheels..you could also work on the internals and anything else you want that way at some point if you feel like you want more power, than you don't have to do the swap, you can just upgrade on mods and ect.. much easier and cheaper...i think thats the way you should go..

errrrrrrrmmmmmmm have you read about trying to do the 4g swap into a 2g NA car? yeh im not even going to go there....

 

[ccsimpson3]

Engine my eclipse is the top specs of each the rsx type s is the bottom....I just wanna bridge the gap going all motor with the gs non turbo...........I don't know if this helps put things in perspective or not.......

4-Cyl. 2.0 Liter

4-Cyl. 2.0L HO VTEC


Horsepower

140 @ 6000 RPM

201 @ 7800 RPM


Torque

130 @ 4800 RPM

140 @ 7000 RPM


Bore x Stroke

3.44 x 3.27

3.39 x 3.39


Compression Ratio

9.6

11.0


Fuel Type

Gas

Gas


Fuel Induction

Sequential Fuel Induction

Port Fuel Induction


Valve Train

Double Overhead Cam

Double Overhead Cam


Valves Per Cylinder

4

4


Total Number Valves

16

16


Transmission

5 Speed Manual

6 Speed Manual


Drivetrain

FWD

FWD

Fuel Capacity

15.9

13.2


Wheel Base

98.8 inches

101.2 inches


Overall Length

172.4 inches

172.4 inches


Width

68.5 inches

67.9 inches


Height

49.8 inches

54.9 inches


Curb Weight

2855 lbs.

2840 lbs.


Tires / Wheel Size

P205/55HR16

P215/45VR17


Rear Tires / Wheel Size

-

-


Turning Radius

38.1

38.1


Standard Axle Ratio

3.94

4.77


Maximum Ground Clearance

5.0

5.9


Maximum GVWR

-

-


Maximum Towing

Not Recommended

1000


Payload Base Capacity

-

-


Head Room: Front

37.9 inches

37.8 inches


Head Room: Rear

34.3 inches

34.1 inches


Leg Room: Front

43.3 inches

43.1 inches


Leg Room: Rear

28.4 inches

29.2 inches


Shoulder Rm: Front

53.1 inches

52.6 inches


Shoulder Rm: Rear

51.2 inches

51.3 inches


EPA Passenger

79.9 cu.ft.

81.2 cu.ft.


EPA Trunk or Cargo

16.6 cu.ft.

16.0 cu.ft.


EPA Total Interior

96.5 cu.ft.

97.2 cu.ft.


Truck Bed Volume

-

-

 

[ccsimpson3]

not exactly that simple.......for one there's some money involved with this car that would make selling it and buying another more expensive plus I don't want turbo. The way I see it more parts = more problems, I'd rather just make my existing parts better.

 

[rush2252]

then sell that GS and just get a GST or GSX...same body style and everything..execpt its faster..just what your looking for...use your brain not your ears and eyes...

if he wanted to sell his GS then the thread would probably state IM SELLING MY GS and buying A GSX...or GST

He wants to keep this car the end.

 

[rush2252]

well get this in that lil brain of yours, YOU CAN'T GET 210 HP WITH THE GS NON TURBO with 6G's.....

All i have to say is with the idea of swapping the 4G into the NA well sucker you got Powned go whore somebody elses thread...


moving on.. Id say that the best bet is focus on head work. Have the head decked and block. This will allow you to bump compression then go with valves springs cams etc.

 

[viperlp01]

I dont know why your screaming head work at him.. Hondas make a living of "higher hp" n/a engines. They produce the highest hp 4 cyl n/a with the s2000... Mitsu on the other hand makes high hp 4 cyl beasts that are all turbod... Its just that.. They are all turbo... and crysler hasn't made a high hp n/a but they are also in the turbo club with the 2.2 and the 2.4... I know your going to hate selling your "baby" but the most logic thing to do is sell your car for 2.5k and shit you got 8.5k... You can build a reliable 300hp 2g AWD for that much money... GSX-3500, DSMlink- 600, 1000cc injectors-300, FMIC-300, evo 3- 500, fp race mani()-200, Nice rims-800, full 3in exhaust-600, fuel pump-100, clutch-300... hell that there will make a sick dsm-- total est...-7200 dollars and you still have some money to take your girl out and pay your friends for helping with the install... shit you can get a TRE trans with the rest... ALL the mods can easily be supported by a stock block...

 

[wwarlock]

Why would you want to run the stroker NA? That kinda defeats the purpose.. Lowering compression and increasing stroke will kill performance I remember my friend telling me about a guy that built a stroker w the 1.6 and 1.7 honda motors he was stoked taht he was the first to get it going but even with a decked block and head the compression was retarded low. I would shy away from this big chunk of investment. And last I heard the first guy to do this said it was a HUGE waste of time with little beneficial results.

Interesting since you can go here and select 12.5 comp. pistons with the kit..... Unless you think 12.5 is low compression? and our cars start out at 9.6 turboed is 8.5

2.2 Stroker Performance Long Rod Bottom end Kit - btmndkitstrlr

One thing I did not remember, it is a 2.2 not a 2.4 kit.....

 

[poonman]

Ok its pretty clear that this guy is getting the wrong info from most of you. Listen to us when we tell you It is not worth all that money to make a 420A fast without a turbo. NO HEAD JOB in the world is going to do ANYTHING for you when you dont have any air to push in. The only way your going to get any power out of that motor is with a turbo or a bottle. The 420A engine would cost you well over 10k to build it fast N/A. You would have to do a 2.2 stroker kit, full internals, and the machine shop work price alone would kill your budget not just the parts. And you cant compare 420A to a honda/integra/acura. TOTALY diff car, engine, build. Anyone can make a fast civic its not hard because parts are EVERYWHERE for those retarded cars. I have a civic and a GS take my word for it, you will go no where fast but back to the bank trying to do a 200hp N/A 420a. Listen to these guys in here and take it from me, anytime you try and do anything to that 420a your car is going to break done because of something stupid like a sensor. You want reliability then do a small turbo with a fuel management system. that way your OEM ECU wont get into the way and cause you more money down the road.

 

[phill]

Ok its pretty clear that this guy is getting the wrong info from most of you. Listen to us when we tell you It is not worth all that money to make a 420A fast without a turbo. NO HEAD JOB in the world is going to do ANYTHING for you when you dont have any air to push in. The only way your going to get any power out of that motor is with a turbo or a bottle. The 420A engine would cost you well over 10k to build it fast N/A. You would have to do a 2.2 stroker kit, full internals, and the machine shop work price alone would kill your budget not just the parts. And you cant compare 420A to a honda/integra/acura. TOTALY diff car, engine, build. Anyone can make a fast civic its not hard because parts are EVERYWHERE for those retarded cars. I have a civic and a GS take my word for it, you will go no where fast but back to the bank trying to do a 200hp N/A 420a. Listen to these guys in here and take it from me, anytime you try and do anything to that 420a your car is going to break done because of something stupid like a sensor. You want reliability then do a small turbo with a fuel management system. that way your OEM ECU wont get into the way and cause you more money down the road.

It's about time somebody gives good advice.

 

[phill]

not exactly that simple.......for one there's some money involved with this car that would make selling it and buying another more expensive plus I don't want turbo. The way I see it more parts = more problems, I'd rather just make my existing parts better.

When you start modifying a car, no matter what aspiration you're going for, it'll be more prone to breaking. if thats the only reason you don't want to go turbo then listen here. if you do it right, it won't break. I ghetto-rigged plenty of things on my turbo kit and it works fine haha.

but it seems that you have already made up your mind for NA.

 

[rush2252]

Interesting since you can go here and select 12.5 comp. pistons with the kit..... Unless you think 12.5 is low compression? and our cars start out at 9.6 turboed is 8.5

2.2 Stroker Performance Long Rod Bottom end Kit - btmndkitstrlr

One thing I did not remember, it is a 2.2 not a 2.4 kit.....

The crank is from a 2.4 when combined with the 2.0 you get a 2.2.. im done with this thread. If he wanted to sell the car and buy a turbo car hed do it. He repeatedly said he does not want to sell the GS...

 

[bullettdsm]

Hmm....where to start...where to start?

OK, CCSimpson, I TOTALLY understand your drive to keep your GS. I don't know why, but I now own 4 of them (2 race). For some reason I really like the car. The cockpit fits me perfectly and the styling is what I like. AND they are super dependable with great gas mileage. My motivation with all this, was about the challenge. When they tell me I can't do something, I generally say EFF U, So that's what I was thinking as I have moved through these.

So 210 to the wheels? You may want to shelve that idea. I haven't seen any reputable numbers higher than mid 160's (of course other than the numbers I've posted all along).

Now do you want something that will move out and hang with your Acura/RSX buddies? Yeah, you could probably do that for $6k (doing some work yourself). My fastest daily driver ran 13.9's (Now I define daily driver as a vehicle that I can jump in and feel comfortable with a radio, heat etc. One that I can hop in on a whim and fill up with regular gas (well 93oct. I mean pump gas) and drive 500 miles with no problems. Incidentally, I did get almost 40mpg on that car. I ran her lean as shit with two different maps, ).

And speaking of maps, nobody here mentioned the most important part of our cars; the ECU. You MUST change it to get any real power NA. It will fight you all the way with any mod that you do. MSnS is the answer. The most used tuner for the 420a. It will require some research and learning but it is necessary to pull/adjust power for our cars (there is the AFX/ECU available but that is basically for the 97 5sp only. There have been some who have moved pins and tried them in other years with some success. But it is made for the 97 - THOUGH Howell does claim some other years now available on their site. But I just don't trust that they have those available yet)

Anyway, quick general rundown;
Higher comp (at least 10.5. 12.5 MAY be useable in our cars with reg gas IDK for sure)
bigger cams (Crower 2's are actually a little small, but they'll get you close)
PROPER IM (all_motor_mike on here is the only one who I've seen make that)
PROPER port work (MUST know our cars)
MSnS
60mm TB

In very general terms that will get you there.

Just one more thing, you will find 2 current times under 15 second 1/4's for our cars. Both are mine. I would LOVE to see you be part of that group. I've given you the recipe, but can you make the soup ?

MB

Oh this does not at all touch the 2.4 swap which will make it just slightly easier to see more power. This is all referenced to the 2.0

 

[ccsimpson3]

thank you VERY VERY much bullettdsm I was hoping i'd see a post from you on my thread, any recommendations on where to purchase some of the parts, and generic vs more pricey brand name type information?

 

[ccsimpson3]

ALSO this is way out there but I was talking to one of my mechanic friends the other day and he was previously involved in a project where they were gonna put a 454 from a chevelle ss in a pt cruiser, I don't know what all he was talking about, something about having to build a new chassis for it and what not....has anybody ever heard of anything like that....he said the engine alone would cost about 5200.00 though....i'm not really interested in doing that, just thought i'd throw it out there for people to talk about.

 

[phill]

wow wow wow there. the NA 210whp will be hard enough. I don't think you want to go dropping a big block V8 in there

 

[mnr88talon]

Anyway, quick general rundown;
Higher comp (at least 10.5. 12.5 MAY be useable in our cars with reg gas IDK for sure)
bigger cams (Crower 2's are actually a little small, but they'll get you close)
PROPER IM (all_motor_mike on here is the only one who I've seen make that)
PROPER port work (MUST know our cars)
MSnS
60mm TB

thanks bulletdsm, but can you or someone else maybe clear this up? When you mentioned the above mods, were you referring to the mid 160 hp mark you were talking about seeing on other 420a's?

I know different cars will respond to different mods, so im not trying to bench race but what would these mods be good for power wise?

I doubt I will ever get to doing any of these, but I always have been curious as to what the good ole' 420a was capable of all motor..

 

[bullettdsm]

thanks bulletdsm, but can you or someone else maybe clear this up? When you mentioned the above mods, were you referring to the mid 160 hp mark you were talking about seeing on other 420a's?
.

As I recollect I was right around 175whp with that set-up (basically). I don't even think I had Mike's intake on at that point.

MB

Oh yeah, as for V-8 swap, been done in lots of cars. Seen a bit of that over the years (I'm old VW bug - the real bug - engine rebuilder). Not too much interest to me. Meh, just doesn't flip my carrot with a different car's engine, tranny and drive train in another car. I've always liked working with what you got.

 

[rush2252]

Bullett thanks for replying to my PM and posting on here. If anybody knows you do. I was just curious. The 2g GS is reviewed as 135 hp to the crank. Which would put it just over a 100whp correct? So my question was with all the mods youve done your only seeing gains of around 80hp?

 

[bullettdsm]

Bullett thanks for replying to my PM and posting on here. If anybody knows you do. I was just curious. The 2g GS is reviewed as 135 hp to the crank. Which would put it just over a 100whp correct? So my question was with all the mods youve done your only seeing gains of around 80hp?

Stock generally 100whp. Current set-up 204.1whp. I like to look at it as I doubled the stock NA power. Or I have 100% more power. Or I have 100whp per liter, .

MB

 

[Locke]

204whp, and still on the 2.0L.

 

[Trav83]

Just slap a turbo kit on your 420a and run it 'till it blows up