I'd like to hear your opinion (kinda long)

[rhtwng2]

Well over the past 3.5yrs I've dumped excessive amounts of money into my 2G GSX and ended up crank walking my very expensive long rod 7bolt 2.1 de-stroked monster.
You can go to profile and see just how built this engine is, and since I'm not into drag racing it would get down the pavement awfully quick.
I was finally able to ekk out 421whp out of it.
I'm just so frustrated with this and since I was let go from my job in Sept. that makes it all the worse.
I just don't know what to do however I know that I have plenty of options. I took a ride yesterday in this guy's bone stock 1G with a PE60 ( I believe that is what he said) and that thing moved out.
I think that he could have smoked my 10k engine that I have.

So I want to hear from you guys.

Rebuild the current engine
6 Bolt swap/7bolt head
full 6bolt swap
6bolt stroker 2.1 2.3
is a 2.1 6bolt possible...

 

[tkelly27]

So thats what compressor surge sounds like. What exactly IS it? I thought it was when your bov didnt open properly and the c ompressed air has no where to go and basically damages your comp wheel. huh...

The turbo is feeding more air in than the engine can take in, and the pressure ratio goes above the level that the compressor can continue forcing air in. The air goes back out the inlet, the boost drops, the air goes back towards the engine, then the cycle starts over again.

Surge when the BOV doesn't open (or you don't have one) and surge while running are the same thing. It seems that surge while running is more damaging because the turbine is still being powered by lots of exhaust gas, whereas the bov situation the throttle is shut and the exhaust volume is much lower.

 

[bryanwheat]

6 bolt swap

Looks like more than 15 min of work to me.

I personally have done many 6 bolt swaps, i currently have one. It literally takes 15 extra minutes than it does to throw a 7 bolt in the car. 99 percent of what is in that thread is just putting the engine in, which is the same regardless of what engine you install. The 7 bolt doesn't just install itself. IF you consider that hard, than quit working on cars.

 

[2GbTalonGuy]

I personally have done many 6 bolt swaps, i currently have one. It literally takes 15 extra minutes than it does to throw a 7 bolt in the car. 99 percent of what is in that thread is just putting the engine in, which is the same regardless of what engine you install. The 7 bolt doesn't just install itself. IF you consider that hard, than quit working on cars.

Then you personally have wasted 15 min of your time, everytime you have done a 6 bolt swap. It may be easier for someone who has done it many times. But it sounds to me the OP may not have. So it will take him quite a bit longer. And for a majority of members on here, Even pulling an engine at all would be considered hard.

You still have given no reason as to why anyone would want to spend all that extra money on a 6 bolt. Most DSM'ers are cheap asses. The only benifit you get are "bigger" rods. And with the extra money you spent on the 6 bolt, you could have a set of H beams with plenty left over.

 

[bryanwheat]

Then you personally have wasted 15 min of your time, everytime you have done a 6 bolt swap. It may be easier for someone who has done it many times. But it sounds to me the OP may not have. So it will take him quite a bit longer. And for a majority of members on here, Even pulling an engine at all would be considered hard.

You still have given no reason as to why anyone would want to spend all that extra money on a 6 bolt. Most DSM'ers are cheap asses. The only benifit you get are "bigger" rods. And with the extra money you spent on the 6 bolt, you could have a set of H beams with plenty left over.

I paid 250 for the current 6 bolt in the car that i have. You couldn't come close to building a 7 bolt for that. In total i've got about 450-500 in the engine with a fresh rebuilt head, new gaskets, and timing belt. IF you don't do things because you consider them hard you might as well take your car to a shop and have them do all the big boy work.

 

[2GbTalonGuy]

I paid 250 for the current 6 bolt in the car that i have. You couldn't come close to building a 7 bolt for that. In total i've got about 450-500 in the engine with a fresh rebuilt head, new gaskets, and timing belt. IF you don't do things because you consider them hard you might as well take your car to a shop and have them do all the big boy work.

I spent 20 on my block in mint condition aside from a paint chip or two. Machine shop did not even need to bore, deck, or line hone it. They just ran a bore over the cylinder walls and it was set. So you already have more $200 more than me in your engine that I do right off the bat. You will embarrass yourself if you want to go into more detail of who spent more on the rest. And yes it is all brand new OEM equipment in my engine. If you want to continue this convo, take it to the PM's, we are getting off topic.

OP, I highly recommend you do some reasearch into what is acually wrong with your car before you go swapping engines. You most likely will end up saving yourself a lot of time.

 

[bryanwheat]

I spent 20 on my block in mint condition aside from a paint chip or two. Machine shop did not even need to bore, deck, or line hone it. They just ran a bore over the cylinder walls and it was set. So you already have more $200 more than me in your engine that I do right off the bat. You will embarrass yourself if you want to go into more detail of who spent more on the rest. And yes it is all brand new OEM equipment in my engine.

So you reused the rings and bearings?

 

[2GbTalonGuy]

So you reused the rings and bearings?

No, I did not have any rings or bearings to reuse. The car came with no engine.

 

[bryanwheat]

No, I did not have any rings or bearings to reuse. The car came with no engine.

So how did you buy oem parts and have less than 500 total in the entire engine? The 250 dollar bottom end that i bought was in running condition. I threw a head on it, bse kit and new gaskets water pump and timing belt and it was ready to drop in. I also bought a transmission, axles, ecu, turbo, radiator, aftermarket fans, intercooler, intake manifold, exhaust manifold, o2 housing, sensors and i've got less than 1200 in the entire car including the shell.

 

[rhtwng2]

Well Is totally true that if is just a split thrust bearing doesn't need to go that far and swap the whole block, but if the engine really has Crankwalk the things are different.

so do you have or not walking Crank?
that's what he said on the initial post.
"ended up crank walking my very expensive long rod 7bolt 2.1 de-stroked monster. "

I towed the car up to English Racing and Lucas put a measuring device up to it and the crank was moving .015"...Jeff Bush walked by and confirmed that this amount of play was twice tolerance and diffidently crankwalk...so can't I just get another block. add my pistons get a stock crank, new bearings and have a machine shop put it all together and install it and motor it down the highway??? It seams that I could do that??

So thats what compressor surge sounds like. What exactly IS it? I thought it was when your bov didnt open properly and the c ompressed air has no where to go and basically damages your comp wheel. huh...

Compressor surging (as Lucas put it to me) is where the engine is taking in so much air that it cannot "spit" it out fast enough. On the Dyno sheet there is actually no data from 4000rpm to 4500rpm it's just blankl, and then it picks back up and makes power. I contacted the turbo manufacture about a larger compressor housing and do not offer a larger unit to solve this problem...I ended up getting a FP 3575 and had it for maybe 50 miles and then crankwalked that damn thing

 

[D's GS-T]

If you already have 7 bolt parts and they check out, you may as well get another 7 bolt block have it machined up and drop in your parts with a new crank.

 

[rhtwng2]

If you already have 7 bolt parts and they check out, you may as well get another 7 bolt block have it machined up and drop in your parts with a new crank.

That's what I'm talking about...since I'm not working this is most likely the most cost effective way of doing it and then up it on the dyno and keep the power down to maybe 350-400whp and take it easy until I can build a monster 6 bolt...Tanks D' GST that's all I need to hear

 

[mattasi]

Sounds like you know what you need to do. I think you are on the right track with this one. Do what you want is what I think.

 

[2GbTalonGuy]

If it is moving .015, you do not need a new block. All you need new thrust bearings and possibly main bearings. Really, if the engine has good compression, you can get away with making all necessary repairs without even removing the head.

If I were in your shoes, I would remove the engine from the car, remove the crank, have it mic'ed, replace rod, thrust, and main bearings, reinstall and install the engine back into the car, and continue enjoying the car. Your issue was likley caused by too heavy of a pp.

 

[rhtwng2]

If it is moving .015, you do not need a new block. All you need new thrust bearings and possibly main bearings. Really, if the engine has good compression, you can get away with making all necessary repairs without even removing the head.

If I were in your shoes, I would remove the engine from the car, remove the crank, have it mic'ed, replace rod, thrust, and main bearings, reinstall and install the engine back into the car, and continue enjoying the car. Your issue was likley caused by too heavy of a pp.

Well, and I scratch my head on this one, I ended up running the water out completely out and warping the head...I think for nothing more than the piece of mind and just getting a new block and have the machine shop put it all back together and install it back in and enjoy...

Your issue was likley caused by too heavy of a pp.[/QUOTE]

To heavy of a pp. hahahaha...you mean right foot?? what's pp?? pressure plate maybe?? I'll check it when I get the engine out..

 

[2GbTalonGuy]

Yeah, I PP stands for pressure plate. What clutch is installed in the car? You must have an upgraded clutch to handle twice the power of a stock engine.

A machine shop will be able to tell you if overheating did any damage to the block. If you did do any damage to it, it would be pretty obvious. Have the block mic'ed by a machine shop and save yourself some coin. Why replace something that isnt broken?

If you are hell bent on replacing the block, I will take your split thrust block off your hands.

 

[rhtwng2]

Yeah, I PP stands for pressure plate. What clutch is installed in the car? You must have an upgraded clutch to handle twice the power of a stock engine.

A machine shop will be able to tell you if overheating did any damage to the block. If you did do any damage to it, it would be pretty obvious. Have the block mic'ed by a machine shop and save yourself some coin. Why replace something that isnt broken?

If you are hell bent on replacing the block, I will take your split thrust block off your hands.

hmmm I will let you know when I get to that stage...however your in North Dakota and I'm in Oregon...are you willing to pop to the shipping?? could get expensive!!

 

[2GbTalonGuy]

hmmm I will let you know when I get to that stage...however your in North Dakota and I'm in Oregon...are you willing to pop to the shipping?? could get expensive!!

Yeah keep us posted. I would be willing to bet that your block is good though.

You're supposed to ship it to me for free for getting it out of your way. J/k, But seriously you should consider reusing it.

 

[rhtwng2]

Yeah keep us posted. I would be willing to bet that your block is good though.

You're supposed to ship it to me for free for getting it out of your way. J/k, But seriously you should consider reusing it.

you know I suppose that I could have the machine shop go over this thing with a fine tooth comb and do some smooth out the sides of the cylinder walls and that should ease the inner feelings...

 

[D's GS-T]

That's what I'm talking about...since I'm not working this is most likely the most cost effective way of doing it and then up it on the dyno and keep the power down to maybe 350-400whp and take it easy until I can build a monster 6 bolt...Tanks D' GST that's all I need to hear

All sounds good man.

 

[GstX]

Stroker! If I could go back in time that's what I would have done from the start

 

[rhtwng2]

Stroker! If I could go back in time that's what I would have done from the start

Dude I have a De-Stroked engine...However I had a 99 Spider RS 2.4 literally fall into my lap. This motor, when tuned correctly, is the best combo for the style of driving that I do.
I'm not into drag racing at all. I'm into Auto Crossing, High Performance Driving Schools, Freeway pull-a-ways from V8's that sort of stuff.
My plan now is to get that engine in my garage and bolt up the 99 short block to my head and take it up to English Racing to have them go over it and tune it mildly.

 

[H@xtGSX]

For the 1% of 7 bolts crankwalking, I must be lucky... (it is more than 1%)

Here is what you're going to find at .014 endplay.

<img src="http://www.dsmtuners.com/gallery/files/1/3/0/6/8/7/imag0794.jpg" alt="Imag0794" />

<img src="http://www.dsmtuners.com/gallery/files/1/3/0/6/8/7/imag0797.jpg" alt="Imag0797" />

I just finished rebuilding mine. It was discovered just in time. The crank was already nicking the block a tiny bit. Much longer and it would have trashed the block too. I replaced the crank shaft and all of the bearings and now the endplay is .004... Not factory new spec, but close enough. The old crank was dug into so bad there is no way it could ever be remanufactured. It drives great now and after seeing just how beefy the main bearing girdle is in a 7 bolt, I am happy to be keeping it. They are built strong, with the thrust bearing being the exception.

I say rebuild. It's not that expensive and your alternatives are twice the price plus a lot more work.

Edit: Disable that damn clutch switch too. Start the car in neutral. That keeps the thrust bearing from getting shredded when you start the engine.

 

[rhtwng2]

I say rebuild. It's not that expensive and your alternatives are twice the price plus a lot more work.

Edit: Disable that damn clutch switch too. Start the car in neutral. That keeps the thrust bearing from getting shredded when you start the engine.

The clutch has been disabled for about 7500 miles by now...however I can hear ya talking to me brutha however I'm going to get that 99 Split thrust block for $500 and file it under "piece of mind" folder. Lucas highly advised me to get that block if at all possible to emlimate the Crankwalking in the future.

 

[spyderdrifter]

I say for now just rebuild your 7 bolt. I'm on my 2nd 7 bolt DSM, but I've had a 6 bolt with 7 bolt head. Honestly since all 3 of these cars have basically been stock to very lightly modded, I couldn't tell much of a difference between them. The 6 bolt felt like it had better power, but I'm sure it was because I had upgraded pistons installed and everything in the block and head got hot tanked or replaced. Keep the 7 bolt for now, eventually do the 6 bolt if that's what you want. Either way, it's still a turbo DSM.