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I Have a Few Build Questions

greekgodchaos

Proven Member
424
16
Jul 4, 2007
Vancouver, Washington
Ok so I have a 1991 Talon TSi AWD, 6-Bolt, aiming for about 400hp, and this is going to be my Daily Driver. Here are the components that are going in to it while im rebuilding it, but I do have some questions about my setup. So look over my mods and then see if you can answer any of the questions I have. Thanks! :thumb:



ENGINE:

Evo 8 pistons on 1g rods (bore wrist pin holes from 21mm to 22mm to fit evo 8 wrist pins and also machine rods to the lightest rod of the 4)
Balance shaft delete
ACL main and rod bearings
ARP rod, head, and main bolts/studs
Evo 8 valve springs and retainers
ECMLink v3 Lite (92 AWD Tsi Manual EPROM)
3" GM MAF with MAFT
Walbro 255lph REWIRED
Denso 720cc Injectors
Aeromotive AFPR
1990 Oil Filter Housing/Cooler
Gates Blue Timing Belt
All new gaskets for everything
s16g with a 20g Compressor wheel and housing
Metal Half Moon Gasket
3G Lifters
Evo 3 Exhaust Manifold
3" TBE


MACHINE WORK:

Hone cylinders (STD 85mm)
Resurface head (warped)
Deck block
Hot tank block
Clean Head
Turn Crank
Regrinding Stock Cams to 264/272's


DRIVETRAIN:

Prothane Mounts
SS TOB Fork
New OEM TOB + Clip
XTD Unspring 6-Puck Clutch Disc
Jacks Transmissions Modified 5/R Synchro Keys (To stop 5/R Synchro Rattle)
Yoke Repair Kit
Dogbox Short Shifter
New Master/Slave Clutch Cylinders
Extended Slave Cylinder Rod
SS Braided Clutch Line
Fidanza Flywheel

OTHER:

Megan Lowering Springs
KYB GR2 Shocks
Big Brake Upgrade
Wideband O2 Sensor
Glowshift Boost Gauge
ABS Delete
New Radiator
PCV Catch Can Setup
DIY Water/Meth Injection (150psi SnowPerformance Pump)



Question: I started cleaning my valves and eventally resorted to using 80 grit sandpaper while my valve was spinning in my drill press and moved up to finer and finer grits, ending at 1200 grit then using a blue metal polishing compound to clean them up, and they are pretty damn clean, but will the use of sandpaper affect the valves in any negative ways? if so ill just get new valves.
Answer: I will just get new valves, will go 1mm Oversized

Question: Which piston rings (ex. Weisco, OEM, etc.) should I get for my Evo 8 OEM Pistons? (Standard bore)
Answer: OEM

Question: Which valves and valve guides should i get? (Standard size)
Answer: Going with 1mm Oversized Valves with new valve guides to match.

Question: With the Evo 8 pistons I've heard i need to modify the oil sqirters somehow, or swap the 1g's with Evo 6 squirter's; any input on this?
Answer: Still doing some research, but it would make sense to me to either go with Evo 8 Squirters or modify my existing OEM Squirters to mimic where the oil is directed.

Question: What headgasket should I get? I had a felpro, and have been told to forget the MLS unless your going over 500hp with a GT42r turbo.
Answer: Ended up getting a 4-Layer Nippon Racing Metal Head Gasket

Question: Dealing with my output shaft to my transfer case, there is a very small amount of in and out play, no side to side. How much play is normal?
Answer:

Question: The previous owner cut all the springs, and because of that the Upper Spring Pads are all ripped to s**t, so where can I get some replacements?
Answer: Pick N Pull or am going to try to see if I can make some out of Silicone Caulk or something similar to it.

Question: Since this is my daily driver, but will also have somewhere near 400hp, I have read the XTD Unspring 6-Puck Clutch Disc is actually really good at holding the power and torque demands I am planning, not to mention they seem to last quite a long time. Ive had a spring ACT 6-Puck before and it snapped in half and am now running an ACT Streetdisc but that will definately not hold up with the new setup. Is the XTD Unspring 6-Puck Clutch Disc a good choice in this case? Also which PP would be reccomended? I have an ACT 2100 at the moment.
Answer: As far as the PP goes, I will use the one that comes with the XTD Stage 4 Clutch and I am going to go with the Unsprung 6-Puck.

Question: With the possible Stock Cam regrinds to 264/272's, is this a good idea to do this for my goal? or would a 272/272 be better?
Answer: Decided to go with 264/272 regrinds through Delta Cams

Question: Can someone tell me what size of crush washer I am going to need for the oil squirters? 10, 12, or 14mm?
Answer:

Question: Wanting to Paint my block, its already been machined so powdercoating is kind of out, will the 650* Engine Enamel hold up to the temps of the block? It would be primered, painted, and clear coated with the 650* engine paint.
Answer:


Thanks guys! :hellyeah:
 
Last edited:

monster4g63tawd

Proven Member
286
2
Aug 1, 2010
Fruita, Colorado
You might be able to use your valves with some lapping compound but I wouldnt do it. I think you would be better off getting new valves with guides from ENGNBLDR i think his ebay name is but they are pretty nice valves and they are at a great price. As far as the head gasket I have heard of people running 25psi + on stock but I would rather have the MLS. Mostly just my opinions but hope it helps a little
 

Boostinsideways

Banned Member
1,644
10
Feb 4, 2011
Arab, Alabama
You can't really resurface our flywheels. Mitsubishi considers it a service replacment part. If your aftermarket flywheel has a detachable friction surface it should be rather easy. Most of the good ones do. Cheap ones may not.
 

greekgodchaos

Proven Member
424
16
Jul 4, 2007
Vancouver, Washington
Ok so new valves are going to go in, but another question arises: I need to get my head resurfaced since it is warped, do I still have the option of putting in oversized valves? (1mm oversized) or should I just stick to standard size valves? I'll be taking the head and block in either tomorrow or Friday so I'll post back any and all relevant information needed to answer some of my previous questions.

As for the flywheel, I'll go ahead and order a legit Fidanza flywheel and that XTD PP and 6 puck unsprung disc.
 

BogusSVO

Proven Member
5,892
303
Jul 1, 2009
Pensacola, Florida
ok... why do you feel you need guides? are they cracked? or sloppy?
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/341218-how-change-valve-guides-4g63t-head.html

If you change guides I would get the +1mm valves

test your valve springs.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/341287-how-test-valve-springs.html

info...
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/341209-4g63t-valve-spring-info.html

you may want to do this oil mod
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/341028-4g63t-head-oil-port-mod.html


with a MLS head gasket, the surfaces need to be perfect...
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/new...face-4g63t-cylinder-head-mls-head-gasket.html

DO NOT let it be a belt surfacer!!!!!
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cyl...0613-why-not-let-your-head-belt-surfaced.html

once you have the block back from the machine shop, you will have to do the final clean on the block before you assemble the engine
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cylinder-head-short-block/362154-how-final-wash-engine-block.html

yes a stock cast iron flywheel can be surfaced, with in reason, but it takes 2 cuts, one for the disck surface and the other is to restore the height from the disk surface to PP mounting.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/341291-how-flywheel-resurfaced.html
yours being a ebay alum, the above will not hold true.

as far as getting your cams reground, I would just buy new ones, or contact Delta Cams

from what I have seen/learned/read the evo 8 springs are not much more than the stock 4g springs 2-5lbs seat pressure.
I like the BC1100 springs and the stock retainers work well with them.
 

greekgodchaos

Proven Member
424
16
Jul 4, 2007
Vancouver, Washington
ok... why do you feel you need guides? are they cracked? or sloppy?
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/341218-how-change-valve-guides-4g63t-head.html

If you change guides I would get the +1mm valves

test your valve springs.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/341287-how-test-valve-springs.html

info...
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/341209-4g63t-valve-spring-info.html

you may want to do this oil mod
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/341028-4g63t-head-oil-port-mod.html


with a MLS head gasket, the surfaces need to be perfect...
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/new...face-4g63t-cylinder-head-mls-head-gasket.html

DO NOT let it be a belt surfacer!!!!!
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cyl...0613-why-not-let-your-head-belt-surfaced.html

once you have the block back from the machine shop, you will have to do the final clean on the block before you assemble the engine
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cylinder-head-short-block/362154-how-final-wash-engine-block.html

yes a stock cast iron flywheel can be surfaced, with in reason, but it takes 2 cuts, one for the disck surface and the other is to restore the height from the disk surface to PP mounting.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/341291-how-flywheel-resurfaced.html
yours being a ebay alum, the above will not hold true.

as far as getting your cams reground, I would just buy new ones, or contact Delta Cams

from what I have seen/learned/read the evo 8 springs are not much more than the stock 4g springs 2-5lbs seat pressure.
I like the BC1100 springs and the stock retainers work well with them.


I figured while I have the motor totally apart I would just replace and redo everything while I'm at it :p The guides seem okay but just to have that peace of mind knowing that I put new guides in instead of reusing the old ones, plus Ill need new guides anyways, like you said, if I decide to run 1mm o/s valves.

I did the oil port mod about a week ago :thumb:

I made sure I found a shop locally that does not use a belt sander to resurface the head, and I've seen their work and the heads they resurface are almost mirror clean!

As for the post-machine shop cleaning, couldn't they hot tank it first, then machine it, then hot tank it again to clean it? Ill still probably clean it all by hand myself but I am just curious about that :)

The eBay Aluminum Flywheel will now serve as an ornament for my garage :sneaky: Ill invest in a Fidanza with removable plates.

Now when you say that the evo 8 springs are not much more than the stock 4g springs 2-5lbs seat pressure, can you elaborate on that?

And Delta Cams is exactly who I had in mind for cam regrinding, but I am trying to figure out what the best combo for my power band would be. Not planning on going over 7k honestly so would 272/272 combo be worth looking into?


Thanks for the input guys I really do appreciate it :thumb: Y'all are awesomeZ.
 

dexterholland04

Proven Member
755
106
Jan 1, 2007
Rush, New_York
The Delta H272's would be perfect I think for a 16g. I ran them when I had a 20g and it really opened up the top end (5500+ RPM). I'm still running them with my BW s362, at least until the winter when I swap them for Delta K272's.
 

BogusSVO

Proven Member
5,892
303
Jul 1, 2009
Pensacola, Florida
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/341209-4g63t-valve-spring-info.html

post #19

EVO
Coil Bind
1.035
60
1.095 SAFE

Installed height general numbers (1.560) for comparison; this includes the mitsu locator given at an average value of 40.

1.560 = 65lbs
.030 shim
1.530 = 72lbs
.410 will be used to simulate cam lift
1.120 = 154lbs

(I did not check this info)

post #1
Part Number #160-1280

Free length 1.910
O.D. 1.110
I.D. .754
Wire size .145x.178


Closed position
pressure & Length (intalled specs)
[email protected] Valve closed

Open position
Pressure & length Valve Open
[email protected]

these SBI springs are OE Replacemnets

so if you look at the evo springs

1.560 installed height 65 lbs

the SBI

1.575 installed height is 66 lbs

so I was wrong ealier you have 1 less lb on the seat, but the EVo springs install .015 tighter

also the EVO had to be compressed .450 to get a 154lb open pressure or 1.120

the SBI springs have an open pressure of 160lbs @ 1.240 or .120 taller than the EVO

I will say the evo does have a much lighter retainer tho.

as for the post maching, yes it will be run thu a spray cabinet again to remove the hone oil.

But it is NOT clean

read the links I posted that will explain it all
 

greekgodchaos

Proven Member
424
16
Jul 4, 2007
Vancouver, Washington
BogusSVO thanks for the links I will definately clean both the block and head once I get them back from the shop.

Okay so I took my block, pistons, rods, crank, and head to the local machine shop and am having these things done:

-Head resurfaced
-Head cleaned
-Block Decked
-Block Hottanked
-Cylinders honed
-Evo 8 Pistons pressed onto my 1g Rods (After the 1g rods have the wrist pin hole bored from 21mm to 22mm)
-Having the Crankshaft Turned due to excess scoring (Will need over-sized main bearings)
-Having the crank end of the rods polished
-Getting a broken bolt removed from the head

I ordered new Revised Lash Adjusters today, as well as a few other things, but I am now waiting to hear back from the machine shop what size my main bearings will need to be when I order them and also if I will be able to upgrade to 1mm o/s intake and exhaust valves. If not I will just get some fresh STD size SS Valves.

dexterholland04, can you tell me the difference between the H272's and the K272's? I will probably end up going with Delta and sending my cams in to be reground but I am still not sure what grind I should go with.
 

BogusSVO

Proven Member
5,892
303
Jul 1, 2009
Pensacola, Florida
BogusSVO thanks for the links I will definately clean both the block and head once I get them back from the shop.

-Evo 8 Pistons pressed onto my 1g Rods (After the 1g rods have the wrist pin hole bored from 21mm to 22mm)

also if I will be able to upgrade to 1mm o/s intake and exhaust valves. If not I will just get some fresh STD size SS Valves.

I still dont get that swap of pistons....

why wouldnt you be able to go to the 1mm os valves? simple enough job with the proper shop equipment. I do them all the time.
 

greekgodchaos

Proven Member
424
16
Jul 4, 2007
Vancouver, Washington
The reason behind the Evo 8 Pistons are 2 fold: one, I got them for a great price and they are in near perfect condition, and two, they are lighter than the stock 1g pistons. Im having the machine shop cut the rods down so the pistons will fit on the 1g rods, and bore out the wrist pin hole from 21mm to 22mm. Ill be using OEM Evo 8 rings with them and ACL Race bearings for the crank end of the rods.

Found this on another forum:

EVO8 pistons/rods specs:
Rod length: 5.906" (150mm)
Crank pin:
Piston pin: .866" (22mm)
Big end width:
Piston: 85mm
Compression: 8.8:1
Piston material: Hypereutectic Cast

And the reason for my hesitation for running O/S valves is that i am wondering if I will have enough clearance from the pistons and for them to properly be seated. I know I probably sound crazy but this is my first build so just help me out LOL.

Oh also, does anyone have any experience with this seller and the Full Gasket Set he offers? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1990-1992-4G63-FULL-ENGINE-GASKET-KIT-DSM-1G-6-BOLT-/390282893263?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item5adeac57cf#ht_557wt_933 I got ECMLink from him already but I am curious about the quality of these gaskets.
 
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