Hydraulic tensioner Question...

[Spoolin98]

Im running into a problem with my new motor.
When I set the tension on my timing belt, I tightened the tensioner pully until I could move the grenade pin in and out freely. I read somewhere on here that if you can remove the pin easily and stick it back in easily the tension is set correctly. Its too hard to fit a drill bit in there to read the distance between the tensioner and the arm. So I set the tension, rotated the motor, waited 10-15 mins and checked the tension, it was in the same spot. So I started the motor and everything has been fine.

BTW, the tensioner is from SBR

Well I pulled everything back out to put the timing belt cover on and I decided to check the tension again after running the motor several times. Well this time the rod coming out of the tensioner was pushed all the way in. I thought over time the tensioner rod would possibly push out more, but it actually pushed in more. The pin doesnt fit in anymore and the pulley arm is sitting right on top of the tensioner. Whats going on here?

Is this normal? Or do I have a bad tensioner?

Should the tensioner pulley holes be at 7 & 4 or 11 & 2? I read both on here.

 

[siceclipse]

a tensioner is a mechanical part that can fail at any point, even when right out of the box.

recheck a couple other things and worst comes to worst, return it and get a new one.

For now, make sure you let SBR know whats up with their product.

 

[FlyByNight]

The tensioner pulley holes for a 6-bolt motor are at the 11 & 2 position. The tensioner is turned clockwise from the holes being vertical on the left hand side. Mine were slightly tilted to the exhaust side. Verify this method first.

Then, I would definately try to check the gap with some feeler gauges or the drill bit. That is the only way to be sure your tensioner is in its proper position.

 

[Spoolin98]

My tensioner pulley holes are at 11 & 2.

 

[Spoolin98]

a tensioner is a mechanical part that can fail at any point, even when right out of the box.

recheck a couple other things and worst comes to worst, return it and get a new one.

For now, make sure you let SBR know whats up with their product.

There is nothing else to really check...
Im pretty sure I have a bad tensioner. I read somewhere on here that SBR claims to sell OEM tensioners but they arent OEM.

 

[Spoolin98]

The tensioner pulley holes for a 1g motor are at the 11 & 2 position. The tensioner is turned clockwise from the holes being vertical on the left hand side. Mine were slightly tilted to the exhaust side. Verify this method first.

Then, I would definately try to check the gap with some feeler gauges or the drill bit. That is the only way to be sure your tensioner is in its proper position.

Thats the thing, there is no gap at all. The pulley arm is literally sitting right on top of the tensioner and the tensioner rod is pushed all the way in.

 

[FlyByNight]

Does it feel like the belt is putting a lot of pressure on the tensioner?

 

[Spoolin98]

Does it feel like the belt is putting a lot of pressure on the tensioner?

No, there is slack in the belt. Normal slack, the car runs fine at idle, I never drove it.

 

[oldman]

My tensioner pulley holes are at 11 & 2.

Then it's wrong, you are suppose to torgue it CCW with a 7 bolt. Also, don't use the pin in the hole method, you must check the gap between the body of the tensioner against the tensioner arm, if there is no gap there, it means your belt is too loose.

 

[FlyByNight]

Then it's wrong, you are suppose to torgue it CCW with a 7 bolt.

*cough* He has done a 6-bolt swap

 

[oldman]

*cough* He has done a 6-bolt swap

Well then I must be getting old because I didn't see any mentioning of a 6 bolt swap in his posts.

 

[FlyByNight]

... if there is no gap there, it means your belt is too loose.

This is normally a result of the too much preload on the tensioner pulley. The belt forces the tensioner to retract, closing the gap. The belt is too tight when it forces the tensioner all the way in. I can see where you are coming from though. In a case where the tensioner is at fault, the closed gap means it is not forcing on the tensioner arm; hence a loose belt.

 

[FlyByNight]

Well then I must be getting old because I didn't see any mentioning of a 6 bolt swap in his posts.

Oh, hell. What about that 10+ page thread on his swap?

 

[oldman]

Oh, hell. What about that 10+ page thread on his swap?

Guess we should all do a posting history search before replying.

 

[Spoolin98]

Sorry Bruce, I should have noted that this was on a 6 bolt swap...but thanks for chiming in, I can use all the help I can get.

Here is a link to the build
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=260127

Well I understand that If there is no gap that my belt is too loose. I understand and know that how its set is not correct. My point is that the tensioner was not like this when I set it. It had a gap, and you could stick the grenade pin and in and out freely and the pulley holes were at 11 & 2. It WAS tensioned correctly. Now after starting the motor a few times, the tensioner rod worked its way back inside the tensioner and the pulley arm is sitting right on top of the tensioner. There is no gap at all and the pulley holes are still at 11 & 2, so the pulley hasnt moved.

What would cause this?
My only guess is that I have a bad tensioner?

 

[oldman]

What would cause this?
My only guess is that I have a bad tensioner?

Considering a 6 bolt swap, your guess would be the same as mine. My point on the method for gap checking is that the piston rod should come out further when properly gapped where you can't stick the pin back in the hole freely, this is why the special tool is needed in the first place.

 

[Spoolin98]

Considering a 6 bolt swap, your guess would be the same as mine. My point on the method for gap checking is that the piston rod should come out further when properly gapped where you can't stick the pin back in the hole freely, this is why the special tool is needed in the first place.

Well I dont remember where I saw it at, but it was a wiseman on here that stated it, that when the tension is set correctly the pin should slide in and out easily.

If you take the tensioner and put it in your hand, you cant pull the tensioner pin out easily. You have to put pressure on the rod to get it out easily. Ill try to find the link to where I got this information and post it for you.

 

[oldman]

Well I dont remember where I saw it at, but it was a wiseman on here that stated it, that when the tension is set correctly the pin should slide in and out easily.

If you take the tensioner and put it in your hand, you cant pull the tensioner pin out easily. You have to put pressure on the rod to get it out easily. Ill try to find the link to where I got this information and post it for you.

No need to look for it, if that were true, there would be absolutely no need for the tensioner compression special tool nor step #9 through #11 on the timing belt vfaq.

http://www.vfaq.com/mods/timingbelt-1G.html

 

[Spoolin98]

No need to look for it, if that were true, there would be absolutely no need for the tensioner compression special tool nor step #9 through #11 on the timing belt vfaq.

http://www.vfaq.com/mods/timingbelt-1G.html

Sorry I already found it...

"Just adjust the tensioner pulley so that the auto tensioner holding pin (eg. 1/16” allen wrench) moves freely all the way through the auto tensioner body and pin holes (after you turn the crankshaft and wait for the belt to stretch and auto tensioner to settle). Adjust the tensioner pulley to do this and it will automatically make the distance between the tensioner arm and auto tensioner body (drill bit measurement) be about .157 in. (spec is .150 - .177 in.). I've done over a dozen dsm timing belts this way every one done correctly."

Courtesy of luv2rallye

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=214625&highlight=timing+tips

 

[Spoolin98]

Also, for us 6 bolt swap guys, we cant use that tool. The motor mount gets in the way, so we have no choice but to set the tension without it.

I think the tool is just to help make things easier.

For example, if you accidentally set the tension wrong or the rod comes out too far. You dont have to remove the tensioner to compress the rod back in if you have the tool.

 

[oldman]

I'm not going to get into a pissing contest, of all the timing belt jobs I have done, not once have I been able to stick the original grenade pin back in freely. I can see maybe using a thin needle to catch the bottom of the piston hole and the top of the body hole, definitely not the original pin. That said, after measuring the old tensioner in front of me, the difference is probably acceptable.

Edit: FYI With the grenade pin back in, the gap is at about 3.0mm where as the spec calls for 3.8-4.5mm.

 

[Spoolin98]

I'm not going to get into a pissing contest, of all the timing belt jobs I have done, not once have I been able to stick the original grenade pin back in freely. I can see maybe using a thin needle to catch the bottom of the piston hole and the top of the body hole, definitely not the original pin. That said, after measuring the old tensioner pulley in front of me, the difference is probably acceptable.

Bruce, Im not arguing with you. Im simply stating where I got my information from to show you that I didnt pull it out of the thin air.

So do you think I have a bad tensioner too?

 

[oldman]

So do you think I have a bad tensioner too?

Do it again just to double check, if it backs out again after 6 full rotations/15 mins, it certainly would sound like the auto tensioner. BTW I added precise measurements in my last post.

 

[Spoolin98]

Do it again just to double check, if it backs out again after 6 full rotations/15 mins, it certainly would sound like the auto tensioner. BTW I added precise measurements in my last post.

So by the measurements your telling me that with the pin able to come in and out freely, its out of spec?

BTW, the first time I set the tensioner and I rotated it 6 times and waited 15 mins the tensioner didnt move at all. It only moved after running the motor several times.

 

[oldman]

So by the measurements your telling me that with the pin able to come in and out freely, its out of spec?

Slightly.

BTW, the first time I set the tensioner and I rotated it 6 times and waited 15 mins the tensioner didnt move at all. It only moved after running the motor several times.

That is a tough one, I wouldn't run the motor again knowing it has already done it once.