how much can the SMIC handle w/o getting into the danger zone?

[Damned Talon]

thinking about using the big 16g turbo in my setup. wondering if i get to the point of maxing out the big 16g am i going to run into problems with the SMIC? i dont wan to even question that aspect of it. i definetely dont want to run into detonation/preignition problems.

would you recommend running a small 16g instead?

looking for a 350-375 hp goal.

FMIC kit is just too expensive right now. (doing a complete setup on my engine before i put it back in the car) im sure you all know how expensive that can get...


thanks for all your help guys. this place is an absolutely invaluable tool.

 

[kpt4321]

The SMIC is limiting me on the 14b.

 

[gsxtacy]

I heard that SMIC's have been into the 11's.

No idea what set-up but damn.......sounds like it'll work till you can afford a FMIC.

Flush your 1G stocker with cheap ass gas. It'll work till you get a FMIC.

I also heard not to run over 19 psi daily on it.

Its all heresay though.

GSXTACY

 

[SpoOLxExO]

Originally posted by gsxtacy
I heard that SMIC's have been into the 11's.

No idea what set-up but damn.......sounds like it'll work till you can afford a FMIC.

Flush your 1G stocker with cheap ass gas. It'll work till you get a FMIC.

I also heard not to run over 19 psi daily on it.

Its all heresay though.

GSXTACY

Besides the moral drive of this premium DSM website is to NOT spread heresay, hows about....NOT?

The fact is.....when people decide they wanna get a new turbo they always skip supporting modifications. They read about what it can do, when it spools up, how much boost it can make, and most frequently, how much "Horsepower its gunna make"?

They then buy the turbo, thinking that it'll throw out it's advertised "XXX" HP, by purchasing a SAFC, the recommended 255lph FP and be done with it.

"I'll run it on low boost, till I can afford the FMIC, the Cams, the datalogger, the Adjustable fuel pressure regulator because the stock one ALWAYS over-runs , always. The Speed denstiy/Hotwire piggy back ECU controller, etc, etc."

Whats the point? The 14b with all that stuff will always smoke a "bigger turbo equipped-only" car, period.

My Point? Get the Front-mount, then everything else you NEED to run a bigger turbo, BEFORE you actually buy a bigger turbo.Your 14beezee-equipped 4g63 will love you for it anyways.

peace!

 

[PaulPDX]

Not to start a 1G vs 2G war but I've been using the search a lot on various topics both here and dsmtalk... Judging by the strictness of the rules for both boards, I thought it'd be a piece of cake to find accurate info. Not so. I've come a cross a lot of post pollution between the two generations. It's like people don't pay attention or don't know that the two cars actually have differences that matter. I've even come across N/T giving forced induction "advice" to Turbo'ed owners.

The 14b turbo has more potential than the 2G's stock T25. So it's almost not worth it to spend the $ on a 16G. If you snoop around with the search feature, you'll probably find that a lot of 1G owners ended up selling their 16Gs once they've spent some time with one or once they realize that it won't give them that much more than what the 14b is capable of. While it may make sense for the 2G guys to spread the gospel of a 16G... it may not be what you want/need. Heck some 2G guys put the 14b in their cars. I've seen quite a few new uninstalled big 16Gs for sale in the classified forum within just the past 3 months. You can probably get close to the 350hp mark with a well sorted 14b car w/SMIC. Check the tuning guide.

So, I agree with the previous poster about the FMIC. Even a modded SMIC will make a noticeable difference. I did with my Dejon modded side mount and IC pipes. However, if your car is up there in mileage... I would keep the $ and get the maintenance items taken care of first. None of those go fast bits will do you any good if the motor takes a dump after you've spent $ to up the output. Which is the mistake I made. I had some $ left after buying the car and spent it on a BOV, the SMIC and pipes, and a 3" turbo back. Then while installing the exhaust I found out the car needed about $1300 worth of work to replace all belts and seals. Good thing I didn't let myself get a FMIC and big 16g a while back when there were great deals on both.

 

[billdo_83]

If you dont quite have the money for a FMIC you could always try to find a MkIV SMIC. Those are much bigger than a stock SMIC and are good up to around ~450Hp.

I would get all the supporting mods before the turbo upgrade also.

 

[GSTdOff]

Definitely buy supporting mods first. Why buy a huge turbo without being able to feed the beast??

 

[Damned Talon]

now perhaps i wasnt comletely clear. i have the engine out of the car and i am setting it up with 2g pistons on the 1G rods , larger injectors, utting a larger fuel pump in it., ARP bolts and metal head gasket.

and i just bought a heater core to replace the blown one.

so that is why i just dont have the money for a FMIC.

its because ive spent my money on all the other supporting mods.
i was merely wondering if the SMIC was going to give me trouble.


thank you bildo_83 for the tip.

 

[maxperformance]

I have the SMIC on my eclipse i currently have 240 HP, 260TQ but i live in jersey and its very cold here right now. In the summer i HAVETO get a front mount or it will be like 4th of july under my hood ya know!!

 

[PaulPDX]

Dial down the boost in the summer or run waterinjection, which isn't all that bad to set up. Aquamist kits are probably the best out there.

 

[maxperformance]

nah....I think ill just get a front mount

 

[SpoOLxExO]

Well, maybe I wasn't clear. No wait I was, you just skimmed through my post.

You just confirmed my "Turbo support" theory by telling me you bought a fuel pump, and larger injectors. This does not classify totally as "Supporting Mods". wheres your AFPR? (Adjustable Fuel pressure regulator in case ya didnt know)FP guage? Wheres the data logger?, what guages do you have?

while the 16g CAN be bolted on without too many mods/upgrades, it's going to perform worse than a properly tuned 14b setup. Even the 16g requires supporting mods. they dont just spit out 350HP, and give you 12 sec 1/4 miles, you have to tune the car in order to get that HP level.

You also said your looking for a 350-375 HP goal. Notice how much power MAXPERFORMANCE has? 240hp 260 torque, far from you "Goal". Well sorry to tell you, but if you had 350HP, you'd be clicking off low 12's, and knocking on the door to 11's. This, under no real circumstance, will ever happen with-out support. Especially not on a SMIC.


So have a slow 16g equipped car, or sell you fuel injectors, get a FMIC kit for the same price as you would have spent on a 16g, and have a fast FMIC'ed 14b car.

No point in giving advice to the bull-headed anyways, do what you want.

 

[Zenja]

I'd say just wait it out until you can get an FMIC. I think it's better to prepare or even overprepare for something then get something and spend a while getting it supported.

I don't want to hijack the thread, but I have a question. My car is pretty much stock right now (well, the mods are in my profile). I can get an FMIC core+endtanks for really cheap now ($260) so I'm thinking about doing that. I would rather do stuff like the exhaust first but I don't want to miss the deal because there is no way I'll be able to afford a "real" FMIC that costs $900 (and I'm in Canada so it would be a lot more) later on. However, I think the point that I'm going to require the FMIC on will be in quite a while. The FMIC would benefit me right now anyway, especially when I get an exhaust, turn up the boost, and get a fuel pump. I've already got a logger on the way. I don't know whether to buy this now or not.

 

[SpoOLxExO]

You obviously know I would say do it. The Air is MADE for turbo cars in the North East region anyways, so a Big FMIC+Arctic air=Tons of boost w/o knocking~Tons of horsepower!

The best Horsepower support mod next to an ACT clutch, IMHO.

 

[RiceKiller_TSi]

Originally posted by Damned Talon
thinking about using the big 16g turbo in my setup. wondering if i get to the point of maxing out the big 16g am i going to run into problems with the SMIC? i dont wan to even question that aspect of it. i definetely dont want to run into detonation/preignition problems.

No one has answered this question head on yet. The guy that ran like 11's on the SMIC only made like ONE pass with it right? I'm sure it nearly melted after that. I think this guy wants to know how far it will go for a daily driver... right? Theres a big difference between one big romp down the quarter mile and stop and go traffic performance. Damned Talon go with the MKIV smic if you can afford one.

 

[logic]

Originally posted by RiceKiller_TSi
No one has answered this question head on yet. The guy that ran like 11's on the SMIC only made like ONE pass with it right? I'm sure it nearly melted after that.

Why don't you ask him? His name is Phil Beers, and he's a member here. (Hint: his wishlist still has "FMIC" on it. Although, to be fair, he only ran a 12.0@113 on his 14b and stock sidemount, he didn't quite hit 11s. Yet. )

Run water or propane injection, get an intercooler sprayer, run race gas, get an FMIC, a combination of these, or something completely different. There's no one "right" answer, and one combination that leads to 11s on a SMIC is just as valid as a route that involves a huge FMIC.

Think about what it is that you're trying to accomplish (safely increase boost without increasing knock, be a baller with a big front-mount, build a "street sleeper", whatever), and it becomes pretty clear where you should focus your time and money.

 

[RiceKiller_TSi]

Originally posted by logic
Why don't you ask him? His name is Phil Beers

Not trying to be funny but, ask him what? I already know what a 14b and smic are good for...what Damned Talon wanted to know was how far the stock smic would get him with a 16G or big16g.

 

[RiceKiller_TSi]

Oh, you meant the number of passes he made?

 

[logic]

Originally posted by RiceKiller_TSi
Oh, you meant the number of passes he made?

Yes.

 

[RiceKiller_TSi]

Originally posted by logic
Yes.

Ok, I think I will.

 

[DeezNutsForYou]

does a modifed smic actually cool better than stock. By modifed I mean 2.25" pipes in and out. I am thinking about getting mine modified buy it seems like the air passing through the ic will spend less time in the ic so will it get as cool as air that spends more time in the ic. I know it would deffenetely impove flow, dropping from a ~3psi loss to a ~1psi loss, but I don't get how it will cool better.

 

[Damned Talon]

Originally posted by SpoOLxExO

No point in giving advice to the bull-headed anyways, do what you want.

ok. well. wasnt looking for a feud.
ill just search for stuff from now on.
why are you so angry?
wow.
:thumbdown

 

[VRMAN]

Originally posted by DeezNutsForYou
does a modifed smic actually cool better than stock. By modifed I mean 2.25" pipes in and out. I am thinking about getting mine modified buy it seems like the air passing through the ic will spend less time in the ic so will it get as cool as air that spends more time in the ic. I know it would deffenetely impove flow, dropping from a ~3psi loss to a ~1psi loss, but I don't get how it will cool better.

I have the modded SMIC, I don't think it is supposed to cool better, hence the title modified "stock" IC. The pipes are modded but core is stock. Helps with pressure loss but not cooling.

Get the "big" SMIC from dejontool and don't worry about it.

 

[gsx91boy]

Originally posted by DeezNutsForYou
does a modifed smic actually cool better than stock. By modifed I mean 2.25" pipes in and out. I am thinking about getting mine modified buy it seems like the air passing through the ic will spend less time in the ic so will it get as cool as air that spends more time in the ic. I know it would deffenetely impove flow, dropping from a ~3psi loss to a ~1psi loss, but I don't get how it will cool better.

Last couple o posts

If you want a SMIC you're going to want to get the biggest you can fit under there. SMIC gets horrible flow through it, so you'll want more surface area then the stocker offers.

I'd look into a MKIV SMIC for sure. I got mine for ~$60 and modding my smic for 2.5" in/out cost more then that.

If you plan on buying vendor UIP and LIP's that's like $300 right there and halfway to a FMIC core + custom pipes.

A 16g and SMIC will be a mess on pump gas and limit you to ~18psi or less. With a FMIC you can run 22psi on pump gas.

On race gas you can take a SMIC deep into the 12's, but it'll be easier with a FMIC.

Basically, get a FMIC when you can. Otherwise you're fine. I'd get injectors over a FMIC.

-aaron

 

[bigjangin]

i would strongly recommend a fmic. You are going to be a lot more susceptible to knock with the crappy stock sidemount. I have a supra smic, it handled anything I could throw at it without heatsoaking with the 16g. I now have a pte 50 trim, and although its doing ok in the cold weather, I have a fairly strong suspicion that the supra smic wont be enough in warmer weather.

Oh and I ran 20psi on the supra smic and 16g.