How much camber adjustment?

[toojung2die]

I'm about to install Tokico Illuminas and Eibach Pro-Kit springs on my 97 GST Spyder. How much camber adjustment correction should I need for a good street alignment? Tire wear is important but improved handling is the goal.

There are kits that will give me everything from .75 to 3.0 degrees of adjustment. How much will the camber change front and rear after the drop? If my car drops about 1.3 inches, how much camber adjustment front and rear will I need to bring it back into near stock specs? Is max +-.75 front and +-3.0 rear enough? I will be setting front and rear toe to factory spec unless someone has a better advice. The camber kit is the last decision I have to make at this point.

Every spring set offered by Eibach said "Not for GST Spyder" so I bought the ones for the GSX [6015.140] based on the recommendations in the tech articles. Any other 2G GST Spyder owners using Eibachs Pro-kit have an opinion on this?

 

[PieEyedPiper]

The AWD springs will serve you fine. Though I'd suspect you won't go as low as the FWD would take your rear end. I too would like to hear the experiences of other spyder owners on that topic.
Also, I believe I know what kit you're referencing. I've heard rumor that ebay brand eccentric bushings do not always fit? Anyways, looking for the SPC kit might save you money and time. I paid $60 bucks for mine off that same bay, but just the fronts. Progress also makes an eccentric bushing kit that includes the rear. I think JNZ has those.

jeez I hope I'm right. Those are the only kits I know of that offer 0.75+- *.
As for the rear, sure go ahead and get the kit that includes the rear (or buy it separately), but if money is tight, for some slight more finger work you could do yourself well with the DYI rear camber washers and bolts setup.

 

[wret]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/handling-tech/169557-street-low-tire-wear-alignment.html

 

[toojung2die]

I read that post just before asking my questions. It suggests what my camber settings should be after aligning. What I'm trying to figure is how much adjustment should I expect to have to add to achieve these settings after the suspension is lowered? Say I want -1.5 degrees front camber. Will a camber adjuster that gives +.75 degrees allow me to achieve that or should I get an adjuster that allows a larger adjustment range?

 

[DGajre777]

Without any camber kits in the front (Eibach Pros and Tokico Illuminas) I have -0.7 deg camber in the left front and -1.1 degree camber in the right front. I used RRE's rear camber kit (8 spacers and long bolts) to get my rear camber back in spec.

Basically, if you get a kit that adjusts +/- 1 degree of camber, you'll be fine.

 

[PieEyedPiper]

Without any camber kits in the front (Eibach Pros and Tokico Illuminas) I have -0.7 deg camber in the left front and -1.1 degree camber in the right front. I used RRE's rear camber kit (8 spacers and long bolts) to get my rear camber back in spec.

Basically, if you get a kit that adjusts +/- 1 degree of camber, you'll be fine.

This is almost exactly my experience. With the same shocks and springs my left side had camber of -0.7* and the right side was -1.4*. That being the case, those eccentric bushings that adjust +-0.75* would be perfect to dial in your camber... err my camber. Just some food for thought.

And I'll vouch for RRE's rear camber kit as well. I bought separate bolts and washers, but for the price, RRE's kit is much more fool proof.

 

[Locke]

How thick are the spacers RRE uses in their rear kit?

 

[PieEyedPiper]

How thick are the spacers RRE uses in their rear kit?

I just spoke with I believe it was Robert, at RRE, and they actually use a cut up piece of pipe for the spacer. He could not give me a specific measurement, but he estimated it was 1/2" thick.
I asked how a guy is supposed to fine tune something like that and he said that you can add washers for more fine adjustment. He did not indicate to me that washers were included, but he did indicate almost any washer will do.

So by the sounds of it you get a set amount of adjustment, and if you want more you can put on some washers. If you want less.. well yeah I guess you have to go get a bunch of washers that stack up to less than .5".

Dee has actually held the kit in his hands so his expertise might shed some light.

 

[DGajre777]

Dee has actually held the kit in his hands so his expertise might shed some light.

1/2" sounds about right. I can measure it if anyone is really interested to know exactly how thick the spacer is.

 

[Locke]

I'm just curious, as a starting point for myself. I used 5/8" worth of wide stacked washers, but haven't gotten to an alignment yet. My usual place (Sears) can't get the Eclipse on their rack, (the jokers didn't like the idea of using boards either :shrug: ) and all the other decent places are booked up a couple of weeks. I can say my rear camber still appears slightly negative, but I'm not sure when I will be able to get it properly aligned.

 

[wret]

1/4 inch of spacing increases rear camber by about 1/2°.

 

[DGajre777]

I measured the spacer while it was on the car and it is 1/2" thick. With the RRE rear camber kit, I still have close to - 1 deg rear camber, which is in spec.

As for finding a place to do an alignment, I take my front bumper off before I go to an alignment shop.

 

[toojung2die]

Thanks everyone for thoroughly answering all my questions. I've decided on the Ingalls rear camber kit. It's more expensive than some others but it has fine adjustment by a cam bolt in addition to the spacers. I'll leave the front alone until I see the results of the alignment. Now I need to make sure my rear toe adjustment isn't frozen...

 

[toojung2die]

I got the car aligned today. No camber adjusters on the front and Ingalls kit on the rear. Final results:
Front Camber: Left -1.1, Right -1.2
Front Toe: Left 0.00, Right 0.00
Rear Camber: Left -1.5, Right -1.4
Rear Toe: Left 0.10, Right 0.10
I started with all four washers under the rear Ingalls kit. Too much positive camber. I had to remove two washers from each side to get the camber into adjustable range. The only adjustment that is out of factory spec is front camber. But slightly more negative is just where I wanted it.

 

[PieEyedPiper]

I got the car aligned today. No camber adjusters on the front and Ingalls kit on the rear. Final results:
Front Camber: Left -1.1, Right -1.2
Front Toe: Left 0.00, Right 0.00
Rear Camber: Left -1.5, Right -1.4
Rear Toe: Left 0.10, Right 0.10
I started with all four washers under the rear Ingalls kit. Too much positive camber. I had to remove two washers from each side to get the camber into adjustable range. The only adjustment that is out of factory spec is front camber. But slightly more negative is just where I wanted it.

That looks great to me! But I'd try to get your rear camber to roughly half of what your front camber is. -0.7* is a nice place to be.

Depends on your goals of course, but you're certainly setup well enough now to go have some fun.

 

[toojung2die]

That looks great to me! But I'd try to get your rear camber to roughly half of what your front camber is. -0.7* is a nice placed to be.
Depends on your goals of course, but you're certainly setup well enough now to go have some fun.

What goal would changing the rear camber spec to -0.7 improve? Turning or straight line stability?
I'm a little confused because -0.5 was about where I started before I removed washers to add more negative camber. Factory spec I have for the rear camber is -1.2 to -2.2 degrees. I have a one year warranty so I can go back for additional tweaking.

 

[asian312]

Removing rear camber will essentially help the car rotate while turning. This is done by essentially removing some of the rear grip. Similar to adding a stiffer rear sway. You probably wont notice it so much on the street, as you probably aren't near the limits of your car's turning ability (well, shouldn't be), but on the track it would equate to a less under steer or a 'neutral' feel to the car.

 

[toojung2die]

Removing rear camber will essentially help the car rotate while turning. This is done by essentially removing some of the rear grip. Similar to adding a stiffer rear sway. You probably wont notice it so much on the street, as you probably aren't near the limits of your car's turning ability (well, shouldn't be), but on the track it would equate to a less under steer or a 'neutral' feel to the car.

Good to know. Thanks for your advice. I'm not going to be doing any track driving. I feel like I have a pretty good setup for the street. I have a stiffer rear anti-sway bar installed. I think I have a good idea which adjustments to make if I'm not satisfied. The car feels solid and maneuverable without having sacrificed comfort. I won't be pushing the envelope on the street. And I still have to play with the damper settings to see which I prefer.