help with purchase - 2.0 vs 2.0 turbo

[mustbfaster2]

after looking for quite a while now i think i found the perfect car to restore this year. Only problem is it is not a turbo car like I wanted.....but it is perfect otherwise......so I will have to add the turbo myself. Besides the standard turbo stuff, are there any other major changes I will have to make? Are the pistons/head/etc the same on the 2.0 non-t as the turbo or will I have to change those out too? Any help/advice would be great. I plan on buying it tomorrow as long as there are no major suprises.

Thanks
Dman

 

[JohnCIV_Talon]

Dont buy it, buy a turbo. Yu get the 420a not the 4g63. theres really no comparison between the two. Hands down the 4g63 is better. It will take a lot of money to throw a turbo on one and wont be wrth it. Thats just my opinion, wait til you find a turbdoed one worth buying.

 

[wishnfor4g63T]

if you say the car is perfect then awesome, i had a 95 eclipse non turbo also, completely diffrent engine. i first loved the car but didn't really have the money to do a turbo setup. If it's everything you want like i wanted via power everything sunroof and chairs leather and all then yea go for it. my friend has a turbo 420a. consider this...4g63t will withstand like 400hp on the stock block but for 1000$ for rods and pistons you have a kick ass motor and ready for the turbo. heh i know it sounds stupid for me to say now i have a 99 eclipse gsx but if i had a 99 gs or esi talon with every option i wanted..i woulda definitly turbo'd it. just depends on what kinda deal ya make! my 2 cents anyhow

 

[Gs Dewd]

Now is it a 1g or a 2g you didn't state that. If it is a 1g the head is the same except for the cams and throttle body. The piston can handle about 7 to 8 psi of boost as they are different ( ring lands are higher on the n/t motor) The esiest way to go about it if it is a 1g is to find a complete turbo engine and drop it in then install the supporting electronics as in the extra 5 or so wires, the ecu, maf sensor, and the couple of solnoids and knock sensor. Then replace the fuel pump. You will end up with a pretty much a fact turbo car and can do whatever mods you want that pertain to a fact. turbo car. There is a write up on this in the n/t section on how this is done. Now if it is a 2g it would have a totally different engine then the turbo cars. Basically build or buy a complete turbo kit and install just check the engine over good first.

 

[Talesin]

Doesn't matter if it's a 1G or a 2G, do NOT buy a NA if you want a turbo. The pain in the ass to convert it over is NOT worth it. Wait until what you actually want comes along. It'll get there eventually, even if you have to wait another month or two.

 

[mustbfaster2]

its a 1st gen....so that does help.....but i think now i may wait since i want to swap out the trans for a manal too... Baically Iim looking for a manual 90/91 Laser RS Turbo (or eclipse) in dark blue that hasnt been hacked up by some kid who put a wing on it and spraypainted the interior or something. Mechanical condition not too big of a concern as long as the car is clean (i hate rust work). The color is what makes my search a little harder i guess but i dont want to change the color on another car and really love the dark blue. Who knows......I may end up getting this one for now just to tinker with a bit until i find the one i want

 

[tkelly27]

1st gens have the 4G63, but if you're not familiar with the swap, and don't want the headaches, go with the turbo model.

If you're absolutely in love with the car, get it and turbocharge it.

I'll tell you my experience. I wanted a DSM for 2 reasons, pure speed, and AWD for the snow. It didn't matter to me how the body looked, or the inside. I found one, it was fast, it was cheap, and it made me happy. Then 6 days later the timing belt broke and now I've got a primered, dented pile of crap taking up space in my driveway until I get another paycheck. So it goes.

If you're concerned about interior, paint, body damage, (I wasn't) you can get a beastly turbo engine together for the cost of a decent paint job. Hell, I could probably put one together for the price of an Maako job. It can be done, and it doesn't have to be a complete headache, especially if you've got a cheap turbo donor.

If you can't do it by yourself, prepare to shell out big money.

In summary, it comes down to cost, your comfort level with the swap, and how much you really adore the car. No one can tell you what you are or are not willing to go through for a car, and sometimes we fall head over heals for the wrong ones. That's the way life is I guess.

 

[Locke]

It is definitely simpler to just buy a factory turbo car.

The pain in the ass to convert it over is NOT worth it.

That would be in the eye of the beholder. What may be a pretty simple procedure to some may be a pain in the ass to others.

 

[mustbfaster2]

yeah....ive definitely gone head over heels for that wrong project car a few times. Worst was probably a 79 1/2 924turbo. More headaches than fun.

I owned a 1st gen car back in the early 90s and have been thinking of rebuilding one for a while now. More of a restoration to start with some minor performance mods and maybe down the road Ill look into beefing up the engine a bit.

So since its a first gen the motors are basically the same? ( besides cams, TB, and pistons)?
Whatever car i get will have a complete overhaul done on the motor anyway so new pistons arent that big of a deal.

 

[Gs Dewd]

Doesn't matter if it's a 1G or a 2G, do NOT buy a NA if you want a turbo. The pain in the ass to convert it over is NOT worth it. Wait until what you actually want comes along. It'll get there eventually, even if you have to wait another month or two.

Nah not a pain in the ass to do to a 1g. Pretty much as simple as changing the n/t motor for another n/t motor. Onlt difference is that you have to run a few wires back to the ecu. and wire in the resistor pack and such. I've done it it's pretty straight forward and easy. And you will have the privlage of saying you put that car together yourself.
Oh and mustbfaster2 if your saying the car your looking at is a a/t car don't let that steer you away. Mine was a n/t a/t car when I started. I droped a 6 bolt turbo engine into it and retained the n/t auto trans and it held up just fine. It had a 160k on it and the only reason it blew was a trans oil line busted and I didn't fill the tranny all the way back up and drove it like that for a couple of months. My stupidity I know.

 

[JohnCIV_Talon]

Ill tell you right now, if you want a turbo, why get a na and turbo it when yu cant run over 8 psi? that seems dumb to me. Be smart, be patient, and wait for the right car.

 

[Eclipse98_RS]

I had a 98 RS before. Although it was a cool looking car it wasnt fast at all. Buying a turbo out of the gate is definitly a better choice. All the stuff you would have to build up on a N/T is already somewhat built up.

 

[Gs Dewd]

Ill tell you right now, if you want a turbo, why get a na and turbo it when yu cant run over 8 psi? that seems dumb to me. Be smart, be patient, and wait for the right car.

Hmm I'm running 17 psi and spraying a 75 shot on my n/t w/ turbo car dosen't sound dumb to me. He is talking about restoring a car. Which he will probably have the engine out anyway. So instead of putting the n/t motor back he can put a turbo motor in and run the supporting elctronics it needs and have what he wants. IF he really like the car he is looking at then its not a bad deal to replace the engine. It is a 1g so it's easily enough to do. I 'd say mustbfaster2 go for it you will learn alot in the process and have the car you want. I paid $500 for my 94' and had a turbo 6 bolt in my garage and all the parts needed to do the swap so it was a no brainer.

 

[Raph]

It is definitely simpler to just buy a factory turbo car.



That would be in the eye of the beholder. What may be a pretty simple procedure to some may be a pain in the ass to others.

word.. get a 16g n go to town.. easy.

i slapped a v trim on my stock 2g 4g63 nt and its holding (made a huuge mistake and bought a t25 to slap on back in the day..) it was soo easy.. most people try to emulate the turbo ecu and wirering and everything and get frustrated..

 

[JohnCIV_Talon]

Hmm I'm running 17 psi and spraying a 75 shot on my n/t w/ turbo car dosen't sound dumb to me. He is talking about restoring a car. Which he will probably have the engine out anyway. So instead of putting the n/t motor back he can put a turbo motor in and run the supporting elctronics it needs and have what he wants. IF he really like the car he is looking at then its not a bad deal to replace the engine. It is a 1g so it's easily enough to do. I 'd say mustbfaster2 go for it you will learn alot in the process and have the car you want. I paid $500 for my 94' and had a turbo 6 bolt in my garage and all the parts needed to do the swap so it was a no brainer.

Thats your opinion. IN my opinion its stupid and pointless. Why go through the hassle when you can get a turbo car for pretty much the same price.

 

[Cs4g63]

Thats your opinion. IN my opinion its stupid and pointless. Why go through the hassle when you can get a turbo car for pretty much the same price.

If you do it with a 1g its nowhere near as bad as it is with a 2g. I think thats what he was trying to get at.

 

[dsm-onster]

I've never seen a turbo car go for about the same as a non-turbo car at auction or on ebay or on auto trader or on the side of the road.

The converse of this. . . It woudl be a nice projecto car to build. A n/a to T swap is a little detailed and the time can be fun and satisfying. I like my hobby of muffing w/ cars. But, I can spend the same time making my turbo car MUCH faster while you're swapping/adding parts.

 

[tkelly27]

yeah....ive definitely gone head over heels for that wrong project car a few times. Worst was probably a 79 1/2 924turbo. More headaches than fun.

I owned a 1st gen car back in the early 90s and have been thinking of rebuilding one for a while now. More of a restoration to start with some minor performance mods and maybe down the road Ill look into beefing up the engine a bit.

So since its a first gen the motors are basically the same? ( besides cams, TB, and pistons)?
Whatever car i get will have a complete overhaul done on the motor anyway so new pistons arent that big of a deal.

So you know you could be walking into problems, but like with my story, i had a turbo car and I walked into a heap of problems. It might have even been better if I had done a turbo swap, that way I could have known wtf was up with the engine before hand.

Basically the same. AFAIK the NT don't have oil squirters and the turbo ones do, that's about it besides what you've listed.

If you're going to have a built turbo engine put in there anyways, then all arguments are pretty much null and void. It's a matter of two wires and an ECU at that point. Well, the transmission could be an issue depending on how much power you make. I'm not that familiar with DSM trans' to know yet.

If you really like the car, and know what you are doing, you'll wind up with the car you wanted, and you'll know everything about everything that went into it. It sounds like you want to do a DSM right, and this could be right up your alley.

Also, if the car isn't going anywhere, wait a week or two. Something better/cooler always comes up. 2 weeks after buying my talon a shelby lancer went up for sale for $300. Oh well, the talon will be faster when it's all better, and big power FWD's are no good for the snow.

 

[dsm-onster]

. . .Damned snow

 

[Gs Dewd]

Also the oil squriters can be installed in the n/t block. So you can use the block if you are planning a rebuild anyway. Also most of the parts to make your n/t engine a turbo engine we end up replacing upgrading on turbo cars ( exhaust manifold,turbo, cams, etc) so you may want to go that route and do it all the first time. I mean lets face it finding a 1g in good condition with lower miles and not modded and beat on is extremly hard to do nowdays. Hell I beat the crap out of mine. It has high miles and modded but it is in good condition and has been for the most part daily driven for the last year or so.

 

[Superbeast406]

Thats your opinion. IN my opinion its stupid and pointless. Why go through the hassle when you can get a turbo car for pretty much the same price.

Because its more fun that way, and you'll learn a lot more. Plus you'll have better knowledge as to whats in your car.

By the way, the oil squirters are negligable items. There are plenty of 2g blocks running around with out them because some say they are the cause of the dreaded crankwalk.
I personally have the squirter on cylinder number 4 plugged with a bolt because it backed out and I didn't have time or transportation to find a new one (it was mangled from the crank counterweight, then hit oil pan hard enough to dent it). Heck, I was lucky to find a bolt with threads that matched up lying in the box-o-bolts in my shop. I wouldn't worry about finding a turbo block, just build up what you got.

 

[mustbfaster2]

Thanks for the help... I went to check everything over on the car today. Pretty much all original ....good interior (athough dirty) and never been wrecked or repainted. Needed plenty of work for sure but a great candidate for what I want to do. Just when I was going to start with negotiating the price some guy pulls up with his teenage daughter and hands the seller cash for the car. I guess he looked at it earlier so had first divs on it. I didnt want to pay anymore than he was asking given all the drivetrain changes I would have to make so I didnt even bother getting into a bidding war with the guy. Just said thanks and walked away. Kinda sucks though....I was so looking forward to getting sarted on it this weekend. If anyone has any leads on a manual 90-91 laser rs turbo (or eclipse) in blue in the midwest ( im near chicago but willing to travel for the right car) let me know.

THanks

 

[JohnCIV_Talon]

You could also learn alot buy saving the money it will take to swap in a turbo engine, and actually build up the turbo engine you would already have.

 

[tkelly27]

You could also learn alot buy saving the money it will take to swap in a turbo engine, and actually build up the turbo engine you would already have.

Did you read superbeast's post? Did you also read that he was going to be doing a complete rebuild no matter what? Not going to be saving money on anything but potentially the drivetrain at that point.

Hey, another good idea might be to find a turbo car with a broken timing belt or a completely hosed engine. There was one for free on CL not too long ago, really nice car, and if you were panning a rebuild anyways...

 

[JohnCIV_Talon]

So, your saying buying a 6bolt and rebuilding it will be cheaper then rebuilding a 6bolt you already have. Think before you speak. Also im pretty sure this isn't superbeasts thread.