help me, a bit confused

[915GsT]

I'm trying to figure out what I'm supposed to do, I have been doing what the tuners guide says but I'm a but confused, I already have all the free mods, 2.5-3" dp, gutted my cat, 3" thermal car back, intake, and fmic. This all started when I went to the track and lost to a civic with a single cam at 6 lbs, stock internals. The local dsm guys here are telling me that it is because I'm not tunned. Well I have close to no clue where to start on that, if I install a bigger fuel pump and run it on stock injectors untill I can afford new ones how will that affect my cars performance? As far a tunning goes, I read the faq on "piggy back tuning" but I'm still confused between that and dsmlink... I'm just need to be pointed in the right direction. Thanks in advance.

97 gst 4g63 with stock t25.

 

[97_JDM_GSX]

well can you tell us what your plans for the car is? how much horsepower are you looking at? is this going to be a DD car, or weekend warrior? also have you done the routine maitenance on the car, because thats where you should really start at, before doing any modding

 

[miller97tsi]

dont forget about dsmchips.com they have good stuff as far as small tuning with an eprom ecu and chips. as far as the other questions, you should be fine with your upgrades for now fuel pump is good but make sure that everything else is taken care of first

 

[flinguist]

I kinda followed this guide from Mach V. It will get you there. Going Faster - Engine and drivetrain modifications

 

[915GsT]

the car is my daily driver, i put in close to 40 miles on it 4 days a weeks, the car has 115,000 miles and had timing belt, water pump, fuel filter, spark plugs (BPR 8s) done when i purchased the car at 100k miles. so far the car has been extremly reliable .... except for my passenger door stuck closed but thats another story... but aside from that i would like to keep the car as reliable as it is right now and be in the high 13's on the 1/4 mile.... not exactly sure how much hp i need for that but i need help getting to that.... also how are the stock axles, can they handle drag radials/slicks?

once again thanks

 

[joegamma1]

If you do an evo or 190lph fuel pump(and rewire ideally) then you wouldnt need an fpr like you would for 255lph pump, but some would argue to do it now or do it later when you want to rase hp in the future. but you still need a tuning device. be it dsmlink, or a safc to have some control over your air/fuel.
you cannot just push more fuel in with a bigger pump, you have to be able to adjust what the ecu see's/does. but you can put the pump in, it will just work as normal(190lph) because your stock fuel pressure regulator will still keep you at 43lbs at the fuel rail. but once you go bigger on the injectors that bigger fuel pump will be needed to keep that pressure consistant. hope this helps

 

[JG63]

You could take that T-25 out and go with the stock 1G 14B. T25 is nice to have tho as a paper weight or somethin

 

[915GsT]

So what if I drop a bigger pump along with a afpr? Would that work or no? As far as injectors what would be recommended size for my goals like 550s or smaller?

 

[jeffo]

IMO, for the times you want you are going to need to be in the 20psi area, so you need more fuel and an ECU upgrade. You should pick up a set of EVO 560cc injectors and either a Walbro 190 pump or a used EVO 8/9 pump, preferably the EVO9. The FIC 650's are also on sale until the end of the month. Either way you need to have the ECU tuned also though, to remove fuelcut, and to give you more optimized maps for the octane you are running. The t25 isn't going to like 20psi me thinks.

 

[907gs-t]

I'd chuck that T-25 no doubt if your planing on running more than 15psi no doubt. A simple bolt-on replacement Turbo that I did on mine is the FP BT-28 & I love it but I also have the support mod's for it. Like the Walbro 190 & RC 550cc injectors.

 

[joegamma1]

IMO, for the times you want you are going to need to be in the 20psi area, so you need more fuel and an ECU upgrade. You should pick up a set of EVO 560cc injectors and either a Walbro 190 pump or a used EVO 8/9 pump, preferably the EVO9. The FIC 650's are also on sale until the end of the month. Either way you need to have the ECU tuned also though, to remove fuelcut, and to give you more optimized maps for the octane you are running. The t25 isn't going to like 20psi me thinks.

why is the Evo9 pump the preferred? aren't they the same as the 8?

So what if I drop a bigger pump along with a afpr? Would that work or no? As far as injectors what would be recommended size for my goals like 550s or smaller?

that would make raising the base pressure possible but you would still have to be able to control airflow as well.
A "possible" set up may be;
affordable:
14b/16g turbo.
560 evo injectors(or 650's for even more on the 16g).
evo8/9 pump(or wally 190) rewired.
safc(which is why 650's are the max, it doesnt work great above those).

OR, if money is no object:
16g, 255/afpr, with bigger injectors and dsmlink.

Then "next time" you want to go faster it's just a bigger turbo/injectors, and a re-tune with dsmlink

 

[915GsT]

Okay well in that case this is what I'm gonna do give some opinions on this I will find an evo 9 fuel pump and throw it on for now. In like 3 months ill jusÞ buy some injectors and safc together and throw them on together.... Then after the tune move up on turbo.... So in that mix when is the maft mod supposed to be thrown in?

 

[joegamma1]

that sounds like a plan.
as for the maft; i would say put it on just before the safc and get the maft set up close(some say you cant completely dial in the tune with a maft alone) then throw in the safc and get it perfect. but doing it after the safc and injectors would be alright too, but you'll have to start over on the safc tune.
you'll need a wideband o2 if you dont already have one.
check your pm's

 

[907gs-t]

Just check my profile It might help.

 

[delta448]

You should listen to jeffo, he gives good advice. Judging by the apparent level of tuning experience you have, you should check out his site and think about sending some business his way once you're ready for a good base tune.

spark plugs (BPR 8s)

You should be running BPR6's, you don't need 8's yet. Colder plugs will hurt power on your car right now. If you run into bad detonation issues while tuning you might try one range colder and go with 7's, but I'm pretty sure you don't want 8's in there yet.

but aside from that i would like to keep the car as reliable as it is right now and be in the high 13's on the 1/4 mile....

For a full weight FWD and a half decent driver, this usually means around 280whp. That is maybe a tad more than the T25 can give you, but you just might squeak into the 13's with it if you drive well. I'd recommend a 16G variant or a 14b, both very affordable in slightly used or rebuilt condition.

why is the Evo9 pump the preferred? aren't they the same as the 8?

The stock Evo 8 fuel pump has a pressure relief valve that severely limits it's ability to provide fuel under higher pressures. Fuel pressure automatically increases with boost if you use a boost referencing FPR, like DSMs come with stock (also like most popular AFPRs used on DSMs, as this simplifies tuning).

The Evo 9 pump doesn't have a relief valve.

 

[jeffo]

why is the Evo9 pump the preferred? aren't they the same as the 8?

Correct, the EVO 8 pump's pressure relief valve starts to open at ~65-66psi. On a 2G that's 22-23psi. So, if you want to run more than 22-23psi it would be safer to find an EVO9 or 190lph pump.
Personally, I wouldn't go for the MAFT. The stock 2G MAS is much more stable, and is good for 425 whp.
I agree with Delta448, for 20psi and lower you should definitely stick with the stock NGK plug.

 

[joegamma1]

Jeffo, Delta,
thanks for clearing that up,I was not aware of that. Does it require an afpr? I just got an Evo9 pump with 4 thousand miles on it for $20.

 

[915GsT]

Okay so the pump can go in by itself at this point or do I have to also run an afpr?

 

[delta448]

It's always recommended that you use an AFPR with any pump upgrade, but the concensus is that you don't need one if you're running less pump than a 255lph. You really only need it to avoid FPR overrun, which happens when the FPR can't bypass enough of the fuel volume being pumped and the fuel pressure begins to climb, like at idle where the IPW is very low.
RRE Instructions

An AFPR can be beneficial for tuning as well though, especially if you do decide to use a Keydiver chip. After extensive logging, you can adjust the tune a little leaner by slightly lowering the fuel pressure. Fuel trims will adjust the closed loop as long as you don't make a drastic change in the pressure, and the open loop fueling can be leaned out slightly using this method.

 

[915GsT]

so im gonna post here so i dont polute with a new thread... that would be selfish

okay so i bought a evo 9 fuel pump, evo 8 injectors, apexi safc, uego a/f wide band, a boost controller and a down pipe.....

so far i put in the pump... let me tell you... if your gonna do this any time soon and youve never played with a dsm pump... save yourself the 4 hours and read the vfaq.... seriously...

injectors are actually easy to do ... this was my first time doing them and its really just moving stuff to get to them...

down pipe is easy and i welded the wideband bung on the passenger side of it...

i got the turbo xs boost controller and to be honest since i havent really driven the car cant judge it yet.. i dont even know if i hooked it up right.... the bottom nipple is running to suction off the turbo and the side nipple in running to wg... if this is wrong someone pls correct me before i effff this up....

tomorrow i will begin with hooking up the sacf and i think im alright with it after using the SEARCH ...

i do have one question, once its all hooked up what is the a/f gauge be reading at for normal? i wont have a chance to dyno tune this week but i do need to drive this thing since it is my daily ... so more or less what is the gauge supposed to say...

once again thanks for the advise and i hope this helps others on their build...

 

[chinola69]

sounds good

 

[joegamma1]

Since chinola69 brought this back from the dead (only by a month or so), how about an update?