Heavy Knocking in Engine

[djrerocc]

Hello, I am new to this forum and new to DSMs. I purchased a 1990 Plymouth Laser RS today. It supposedly has a good running engine with new 16g turbo, HKS downpipe, yada yada yada.. I purchased it today from this guy that I know from work. He seems like he knows a lot about this car since he has had it for a while and rebuild it a few times. It is knocking extremely bad right now and hes saying it needs new rod bearings. I cranked it up and it started right up, but had really heavy knocking.

I popped the hood while running and listened to where it was coming from. It sounds like it is right on top of the engine. I understand that the bearings are under the engine in the oil pan. Would this still be a posibility of why it is knocking so heavily? Is maybe the engine blown? What are some ways that I can tell if its blown or what it needs. I am considering taking it to a shop but I do not have the money to have them tell me it needs this and that and before I know it the whole engine is going to be rebuilt. I let it run for about 30 seconds and it was smoking out of the exhaust, and then just cut off.

I know some of you may say 'There are numerous forums on this topic yada yada yada' But I searched and I read and didnt find exactly what I need. Hopefully some of you may help me out since I am going to be on this site for a while!!

 

[steelzeus]

pull the oil pan and take a look for any metal shavings. Also hook up a oil pressure gauge and see what kind of pressure you are getting if the rod is knocking you should have low oil pressure normally. Also you said he has rebuilt it several times do you know why normally you dont need to rebuild several times,

 

[ob420aboosted]

i just had the same exact problem. pull the oil pan off then go from there. id start looking for a motor

 

[djrerocc]

He claims it is just the rod bearings. I have never heard a knock from bearings so I dont know what to expect. This knocking is extremely loud though. He claims it just needs new bearings to run. All I need for it do is get me around my town for a few weeks til I can afford a new engine or a complete rebuild. Any suggestions?? Should I try to change the bearings and see how it runs? Could he possibly keep ####ing up the engine due to running high PSI? It has a boost controller but it is not electronic. So I am clueless as to turning boost down. WTF Its all good, I am new to these DSMs but I have a passion for them already!! Please someone let me know if I should just replace bearings and drive it around for a little bit.

 

[djrerocc]

So in order to change the rod bearings what exactly do I need to do? I have been told by a few people it is best to rip the whole engine out and work on it. The previous owner of the car has told me differnt, he said I can just jack it up, take the oil pan off and there pretty much right under there. Is it that easy? I am not new to engines, I am quite good with them actually. Just new to the DSM. I have been told that if you know what you are doing you can change the bearings in a couple hours. Is that true? I do not have a manual yet so this should be fun. I am glad to find a forum that is dedicated solely to these cars!! You guys seem liek you are going to help me out a lot and trust me, I will be on here asking for advice and posting pictures and such. But does anybody have a page where it tells you how to change the rod bearings from the oil pan. That would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for all the replys so far!! Keep em coming!

 

[djrerocc]

One of my buddys with a DSM came over today and checked it out, he thinks maybe I have a loose rocker. He told me to pop the valve cover off and crank it up. He took off because he had to be at class. I took it off, tried to crank it over and instantly just 1 click and no power. I am presuming it killed my battery because I have Nology Hotwires which have to be ground. There was no way to ground them being as I had the cover off.

But anyways, I started pulling my piping off for the turbo and I found some nasty film in there. Looks like motor oil with a little bit of dirt. Looks like my d!ck is in the dirt on this one!! What do you guys advise I do?? Rebuild engine? Try to find another DSM for sale to switch out parts?

 

[eclipsegsx1989]

check your valves and make sure there arent bent .. i had the same problem .. you probly floated a valve and came up though the head ..

 

[djrerocc]

I do not want a JDM spec. If anything I will purchase a crate motor. Money is a major issue at the moment though. I would like to just rebuild this if thats whats necessary. But anyways, I went out and cranked it up today. Really heavy knocking sounding like its coming from top of engine somewhere. Like said above, maybe valves? It was a loud knocking coming from inside the valve cover indefinitely. But I started it up, it idled for about 45 seconds and then shut off. I did not try to crank it up again after that because i do not want to make problem any worse. One more thing I was confused about, Not all the bolts are on the valve cover. I noticed there is a little bit of a gap due to not having bolts to press it down. Could that have anything to do with any problems? Maybe is that why there is a bit of grime all over the engine? Also, I pulled my piping off for my turbo/intercooler both had a little bit of a substance in it (i think maybe oil) But anyways look at these pics of the engine bay. What a mess huh!! WTF

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[djrerocc]

the reason why americans should not be building japanese motors

What is that supposed to mean? I just purchased this car. I have not done a single thing to it. Read the forum rules, No smartass remarks. Was that statement you just mentioned above relevant to any of the issues discussed above?

[Edit]
Oh, and I am not going to be building it. I am having a reputable shop do the work.

 

[a-w-d]

I just took apart a 6 bolt motor that had knocking and found it to be bent rod and bad bearings with shavings in the oil pan.

 

[djrerocc]

Bent rod?? Damn that cant be good. Would that do any damage to any other internals? Such as pistons, block, crank or anything? But anyways, since I have to pretty much rip this motor apart anyways I am going to go ahead and purchase a whole rebuid kit. I found this one on ebay eBay Motors: 89-92 MITSUBISHI ECLIPSE 2.0 4G63 ENGINE REBUILD KIT (item 220061902566 end time Apr-08-08 12:30:34 PDT)
I am going to purchase that. While I am at it, I am going to check the rods and if necessary purchase a set of those. What else would I need? That looks like it should be ok right? Oh and the previous owner of my car said "its a brand new 16g turbo" so I do not know why there is oil in the pipes unless he neglected to clean them when installing the new turbo. If necessary I will rebuild the turbo also.

 

[jrcramer1]

dont do that for a little more money you can put better stuff in there like cp pistons or weisco and rods. make sure you eliminate the balancing shafts while your doing this. look into performance stuff thow if your rebuilding it. and the turbo dont touch it if you dont need to.

 

[hobbystocker]

my friend had the same problem in his dodge neon srt4 he had to buy a new motor because it was blown up.

 

[95TalonOwner]

When it is running, is it running rough? Check the timing marks. Could be out of time with the pistons smashing valves.

Might just be good if you're on a budget to go find a cheap used turbo 6 bolt long block someone is selling and throw it in. Check your local forums, I'm sure someone has one around there for not too much.

 

[djrerocc]

I started it up again because I am attempting to take the oil pan off. In order to do that, I have to drive up on these ramps so I started the car to move it. It is still knocking loud but it kind of fainted. It is not as loud as it was before but it acts up very couple seconds. Ok so I am moving the car while its already ####ed up Is that bad? I was told that I should not even crank it up until problem is diagnosed. But then again how do I diagnose a problem if I cant hear it? But anyways, my main question is, If the rod bearing is spun, will that cause my car to not rev very high? Maybe I need to do a compression test? I hit the gas and it only revs up to about 2500. I did not try to floor it and hold it to see if it would rev high because I do not want to mess the car up. But I will step on it real quick and it will only go up to about 2000-2500. What is wrong with the car? But anyways I am going to take the oil pan off and see if there is any free play. I will let you guys know how it goes a little bit later.

 

[djrerocc]

not imported from japan like you said. if you need a reference and dont believe it im sure you can google it

thank you for contributing to my thread, but at the same time I do not want any arguing on here. this thread is to help diagnose my problem not to argue about where the 7 bolt came from. it seems all you have done in this thread is be a smartass and try to prove yourself. please take your senseless comments elsewhere

 

[djrerocc]

So the knocking is not AS bad now but it is still knocking. Engine will not idle. Here is a little video i attached so you can see what its doing. I tried to get out of the car to get closer to the motor but car wouldnt idle without touching the gas, car will not rev over about 1500 rpm and boost goes to 14+ psi at 1500.

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[jrcramer1]

id start ripping the oil pan off. did you check all the lifters? when you took the valve cover off? either way you are going to have to rip the motor apart. and i think the reason why it looks like its boosting so high is because you are stepping on the gas and something is wrong so its be held back by reving or going any more than that.

 

[->PrOjEcTGS<-]

By the sound of that video it seems like it could be out of time. Check the timing belt marks, using the vfaq found here ======>>>CLICK ME<<<. With rod knock it will still run relatively well as far as idle and not having to give it so much throttle to keep it running. Looks like you are having problems even keeping it running. Check that and get back with us.

~Andrew~

 

[djrerocc]

id start ripping the oil pan off. did you check all the lifters? when you took the valve cover off? either way you are going to have to rip the motor apart. and i think the reason why it looks like its boosting so high is because you are stepping on the gas and something is wrong so its be held back by reving or going any more than that.

i attempted to take oil pan off yesterday but was going through technical difficulties due to my front clip. i couldnt get up on the ramps without pushing/scraping. i went to take front clip off and its all rigged up with twist ties and all types of other shit!! WTF I am going to take another attempt tomorrow. I was considering buying a whole new engine, but at the same time I would like to fix this one (if i can do it for decent price) and drive it til it blows!! Just so I can get a lil more time to learn about the DOHC 2.0L. I am an american muscle guy new to 4 bangers.

By the sound of that video it seems like it could be out of time. Check the timing belt marks, using the vfaq found here ======>>>CLICK ME<<<. With rod knock it will still run relatively well as far as idle and not having to give it so much throttle to keep it running. Looks like you are having problems even keeping it running. Check that and get back with us.

~Andrew~

Yes I was thinking the same thing!! I will check that site out and see what it says but for now I have to jet off to work. I am having problems keeping it running as it wants to idle at about 500 rpm and it kind of goes up and down. The timing is a major possibility also maybe the plugs arent in the right spot? maybe the firing order is not correct. but anyways check out this pic I just noticed on the cam gears there are marks indicating something but i am not sure what. check out this pic. I will let you guys know a little bit more tomorrow when I go out and tinker some more

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As you can see, this car is an electrical nightmare under the hood too!!

 

[95TalonOwner]

Definitely sounds like its time for a head job.

 

[djrerocc]

Yeah, I was contemplating rebuilding or buying a new engine (actually a used one). Buying a used engine is kind of a roll of the dice on what im going to get. They can tell me it is freshly rebuilt or only has XX amount of miles but when I get it all together could be a completely different story. I am thinking about redoing this one. I am going to order this kit eBay Motors: 89-92 MITSUBISHI ECLIPSE 2.0 4G63 ENGINE REBUILD KIT (item 220061902566 end time Apr-08-08 12:30:34 PDT) What else would I need? Also, would I need a rebuild kit for a 4g63"T"? I would think that this is the proper kit) Take the head to a machine shop and level it out if necessary? What else would I need for the whole process? The block should be ok right? Once I get the engine out and disassembled I am sure I will find out what else it needs. Only problem is I am a 'virgin' as you would call it being as I have never rebuild an engine. My friend has all the tools necessary and he has done plenty of work on his 95 Tsi. I would really like to get this car on the road ASAP but it looks like its going to be a little while!!

 

[jrcramer1]

if those blue lines are your timing marks they are way off. check that out it might be that simple like he said.

 

[djrerocc]

Alright so we replaced the rod bearings yesterday. After fixing all the boost leaks it ran flawlessly for a little bit. It does have a slow leak from the oil pan but that is not my main concern at the moment. I started driving it home from a buddys house and about 15 miles later when I got to my house, I heard a knocking again. This time it is coming from the top end. Luckily I got it to the house and it had just started knocking as I pulled into my neighborhood. I popped the hood checked the oil and it was a little low from the leak but not too bad. Maybe about 1/4 of a quart had been dripped out. I am going to take the oil pan off and reseal it with some High Temp RVT silicone. But anyways, this knocking is coming from the top end.

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I am thinking maybe a lifter? Or the timing? I know it needs a tune because it is running extremely rich at the moment. Anyways I am attaching a video of a quick start up and rev so you can hear how it sounds. Please any help would be greatly appreciated!!