GT4202R Turbo... 2L or 2.4L long rod?

[TSisleeper]

Here's the run down:

I'm using a GT4202R turbo, 1.15 a/r and I was wondering if anyone has attempted this on a 2.4L long rod motor (4g64 or 4gcs with a 156mm rod). Or even a 4g63 with a 100mm crank and 150mm rod (2.3L)

I'm looking for some real world info, as I am about as crazy as any DSM'r on here and having a gt4202r on a street car is such rediculous over kill it makes me wonder about my level of santity . I'm using AEM EMS, Wideband, blah, blah, blah. I've made over 700whp already so I don't need any info on tuning or anything just some help before I start my next build. I happen to have a spare 4g63 6 bolt here at the shop and I have an offer to trade a guy locally for a 4gcs bare block (and main caps no guts) for a 4g63 with crank / rods / pistons (short block basicly) so I have either one at my desposal, nice huh?

I know of one particular dsm person (www.top-street.com) that is running a GT4292R (smaller) with a 2.3L setup but have been unsuccessful at contacting him so I'm still in need of some answer's or even USEFUL opinions.

Let me know what you know or have to share

thanking you guys (and girls maybe) in adnance... Jayson

 

[TSisleeper]

sorry that's his old web page, here's the new one...http://www.jhracing.net/index.html

 

[andymoraitis]

Jayson,

If you want to PM Jake Hanhardt, his handle on tuners is topstreet (all small letters). He's a VERY helpful and knowledgeable guy who can shed some light on your situation. I've also taken the liberty of PM'ing Keith (92awddsm) since he's a licensed professional machinist and he would have some good info as well.

Sorry I didn't have all the answers for you.

Andy

 

[TSisleeper]

Thanks for the help man

 

[GVR4592]

I would look into destroking a 2.4 block with Eagle's 94mm crank. You can get a little more than 2.2 liters and have a 1.69:1 R/S ratio, with a custom long rod. I would definitely look into getting a main girdle for the bottom end if you go that route, the 2.4 caps aren't connected like the 4g63 caps and tend to move around at higher rpm's.

Marco from Magnus has run the GT42 with a long rod 2.4. He can be hard to get ahold of sometimes but just keep calling and I'm sure he'll answer any questions you have.

 

[Lunch_Box]

I would look into destroking a 2.4 block with Eagle's 94mm crank. You can get a little more than 2.2 liters and have a 1.69:1 R/S ratio, with a custom long rod. I would definitely look into getting a main girdle for the bottom end if you go that route, the 2.4 caps aren't connected like the 4g63 caps and tend to move around at higher rpm's.

What length of rod would you need to work for that set up? I currently have a built 2.4L (156mm rod) with a mitsu crank and was planning on swaping it out this winter for an Eagle 100mm crank but might go with what you just suggested. Also to achieve a main girdle do you know of any shops that make any or would it have to be made using the 2.4L caps?

 

[nanokpsi]

What length of rod would you need to work for that set up? I currently have a built 2.4L (156mm rod) with a mitsu crank and was planning on swaping it out this winter for an Eagle 100mm crank but might go with what you just suggested. Also to achieve a main girdle do you know of any shops that make any or would it have to be made using the 2.4L caps?

159mm rod using typical stroker style pistons. If you wanted, you could see if someone would make you custom pistons to use your current rods.

 

[TSisleeper]

so no one's in favor of a 2.0L, I know there proven already so what's the fun in that, I don't think there's enough 2.4LR's out there to get the info I'm after.. it's trial and error time! I know the 2.0's have problems with the flywheel bolts coming out at elevated rpm's (10,000 +) so I was thinking about the 2.4 LR, but what I really need to know is how much of an RPM band I'll have with the GT42R using the 2.4 LR, anyone know? I don't think reving that motor to 8500 is enough (my 2.3's have spooled the 4202r that I'm using at 5750rpm (14 psi on pump and layed down 581 fwhp already) but I was thinking more like 23 psi on pump with this one! (vette's don't stand a chance anymore)

 

[topstreet]

Hey Jayson!

I am in the middle of a move and didn't see the thread... Sorry Man. BTW: Thanks Andy for the intro!

Anyways, Personally I don't see any problem using the 2.0L if that is what you are after. The build is simple and proven. I don't think the flywheel bolts should be any kind of concern. Red Locktite is all I have ever used and its been great for me. If you are still nervous about it, get yourself a safety wire kit and never fear this again.

Personally I stayed away from the 2.4 block for several reasons:

-All the bs involved in the conversion (big or small its more headache to deal with at the track if you need to adjust something.)

-You don't get to use a kevlar timing belt without something being rigged together. Whether its a T-Belt tensioner being converted to a manual lock nut setup, or whatever else, its a pain. Stock Mitsu has always worked for me.

-HEADGASKET SELECTION!!! The Titan ISC's leak ALOT above 35psi. What is the fun in that! Cometic... I am unaware of anything else currently. If you through 2000psi into that motor and the headgasket leaks it is not going to make as much power as it should.

-Simplicity... If you want a set of pistons, or need some rods... You might be waiting all season. At this point if its $100,000 or 1 cent it was worthless if your not driving it.


I don't know how much I would worry about the block moving around. If you want to take a preventative jump at this, then put a set of billet mains in there. This is what I did with mine. Did I mention that I start my power band at 4600rpm and dont stop until 9600rpm!

Now if you wanted to bench race, then both motors will work well on the 102mm compressor map. In my experience the 94mm works very well up to the 40ish psi mark on the 2.3L. After that your not getting too much more from boost, you are tuning in the timing and other factors. The 102 on the other hand goes much higher into the pressure ratio side of the map. This may be really nice on the 2.3 or 2.4. I cannot answer that with personal knowledge though. Just what I have seen from others.

I'll try and keep a better eye on this thread! Nice numbers BTW!

Jake

 

[topstreet]

Here's the run down:

I'm using a GT4202R turbo, 1.15 a/r

I'm looking for some real world info, as I am about as crazy as any DSM'r on here and having a gt4202r on a street car is such rediculous over kill it makes me wonder about my level of santity .

Just reading back through the post again and wanted to tell you also that I don't think you need the 1.15a/r exhaust housing. Many people have made 1000hp with the 1.01a/r. Personally, if you can just go and switch over (your not using the large frame flange) I would look into it. I also street drive my car and love the response of the 42R with the stroker and the smaller housing.

As far as being insane.... Squirrels don't seem to mind it too much. Those nut junkies are always running around acting like idiots!

 

[TSisleeper]

It's funny that you say that I'm actually switching to the 1.01 A/R

 

[TSisleeper]

you wouldn't happen to have an AIM screen name by chance would you?

 

[TSisleeper]

you rev your 2.3L to 9600 with no issue's?. (what do you normally shift at on pump gas on the street, when you make a pull, what boost level, and what compression ratio, if you wouldn't mind sharing) Hmm.. maybe I'll go the 2.3 route instead of the 2.4L LR motor, the 2.0 is easy to build so I wanted to stay off that but I wasn't sure how well the 2.3's would do with being daily driven (rev wise I mean, what's the use of having a couple hundred HP available if I can only make power on pump from 5000 or 7500?) I don't plan on running race fuel in my car everytime I wanna go out. I was thinking about using the 2.4LR so I would have some info to share but I'm doing this for a personal car that I can have fun toying with vipers and vette's. Also I like the more low end torque of the strokers but, I'm sure you can atest to this too, when a turbo of this size hit's it's all over anyway!!

 

[Lunch_Box]

-HEADGASKET SELECTION!!! The Titan ISC's leak ALOT above 35psi. What is the fun in that! Cometic... I am unaware of anything else currently. If you through 2000psi into that motor and the headgasket leaks it is not going to make as much power as it should.

Jake

I went with an o-ringed head and a felpro composite head gasket.

 

[topstreet]

you rev your 2.3L to 9600 with no issue's?.

but I wasn't sure how well the 2.3's would do with being daily driven (rev wise I mean, what's the use of having a couple hundred HP available if I can only make power on pump from 5000 or 7500?)

but I'm doing this for a personal car that I can have fun toying with vipers and vette's.

YES!!! I have taken this motor, a stroker, as high as 11,000RPM... ONCE! Normally, I shift at anywhere from 9200-9600. Its rare that I let pump gas get in the tank at this point, because I hate draining it for C-16, but I have no problem running 9000+ rpm with pump. The timing map is fairly aggressive at the lower boost levels too.

Honestly... I dont remember the compression. I am not just saying that, I really dont. It is nothing out of the ordinary though. 9-1 or so.

Messing up vipers and crap barely takes any boost. Its just mean to take a car thats half the weight, has traction, and twice the power and try to race.... But its really fun too. The around town drive-ability of the strokers is great.

I went with an o-ringed head and a felpro composite head gasket.

Really??? If it works then cool... This is on a 2.4L block I am assuming?

 

[TSisleeper]

I have dsmlink in the car right now because my lap top went south on me last weekend, I'll tell you what the link is way easier to tune than the EMS but nowhere near the possiblities, car runs though. I got the turbo (gt4202R) changed to a 1.01 A/R and it should be here soon. Also I'm thinking of changing out my 75mm t/b to a 90mm one from a vette (well it's actually a holley FSX one but it's intended for a GM). Jim at JM Fab is going to do a manifold with the t/b flange so I'll let you know how that works out. Any info you have (jake) I'll take, haha btw nice website!

How do you like the dogbox? (cause it sound's awsome in the video, kinda like my dad's older ferrari!)

 

[TSisleeper]

what headgasket do you reccomend, the copper one darren sells (ffwdconnection) has worked for me, also how did you get that radiator to fit with the gt42? or is it not of the dsm nature?

 

[Lunch_Box]

So did you decide which route you are going to go? I was planning on just swapping in an 2.4L Eagle crank but a 2.2L sounds interesting. So many decisions.

 

[TSisleeper]

Haven't totally made up my mind yet, I'm in communication with Marc (magnus motorsports) about something a little different then any I've seen, I'll I'm going to say is 2.65L possibley

 

[topstreet]

The dogbox is one of the greatest investments I have made so for. I have had it in the car for over a year now, and its been great. I have not missed a single shift since it went in. Every time I drain the fluid, it looks like I just put it in. I actually take it out and put it into my toyota pickup.

I was using the Copper Titan ISC at first and could not keep pressure out of the coolant jackets. I didnt mill the head, or change the surfaces or prep in any way. I bolted the stock mitsu in there, and torque the studs down... Thats it! I have run more boost and more timing since with out any worries. I will say that I never tried torquing the ISC down any tighter, but it was at 85lbs. Personally... Considering the price difference between stock and everything else, I wont use anything else that is on the market currently.

 

[TSisleeper]

the MLS one from RalliArt or the cheapo one they give you with the top end kit from like top line or something? Problems with the twin disc clutch setup? well's it's not really funny but what are you suing currently? if you wouldn't mind sharing.

 

[topstreet]

Mitsu MLS

Maybe I wasnt clear on my website but, I am still using the QM twin disc... Not with the aluminum flywheel, anymore....

 

[TSisleeper]

I didn't really get a good look at the clutch thing just saw there was one on there that gave you an issue. Do you think your 4294 is ok on pump? I was thinking of doing something total rediculous, infact it shouldn't be mentioned to the public so check your PM in about 5 minutes,

 

[topstreet]

4294r is a great turbo.

PM Returned

 

[TSisleeper]

So this new super 16g should be awsome that you were talking about in the PM... can't wait