Friggin TOB

[Calan]

After 4 months, I finally got my car back together and took it around the block. Besides a whole bunch of other stuff, I rebuilt the tranny, new 2600, flywheel, fork, pivot, etc etc...

Problem is, my TOB is rattling like a SOB. I'm pretty sure I didn't put the clip on correctly

So I have 3 questions:

1. What is the correct way? I've searched and I think I now know...but I can't find a verified correct pic of that stupid clip orientation anywhere.

2. Are there any shortcuts to getting at the TOB without completely removing the tranny again?

3. How bad will it hurt to drive it a while with it rattling before I get time to tear it apart again?

TIA

EDIT:

It's probably the clip which I believe isn't even touching the bearing , but....

Could it be that I just don't have the clutch properly adjusted yet? I know I need to bleed it again, and I had to bring the rod out at the pedal. But if it isn't correct, would that cause the TOB to rattle? Should the TOB be slightly pressed up against the PP with the clutch out?

I added a single lock washer to the new pivot ball, and I also have a new extended slave rod that I didn't install (heard both good and bad about those). Could using the extended rod help with any of this, or does it just affect the clutch throw when the pedal is pressed?

FWIW... The clutch feels like it should (engaging/disengaging correctly), although the pedal is a little "light" feeling at the top. And the fork is roughly centered in the bell housing.

 

[dsm-onster]

1. What is the correct way? I've searched and I think I now know...but I can't find a verified correct pic of that stupid clip orientation anywhere.

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That is the proper oriantation per my 1992 Mitsubishi Factory Service Manual.
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2. Are there any shortcuts to getting at the TOB without completely removing the tranny again?

Unfortunately no.
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3. How bad will it hurt to drive it a while with it rattling before I get time to tear it apart again?

I drove mine around for years w/ the clip on the UNDERSIDE of the TOB. It didn't even rattle.
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It's probably the clip which I believe isn't even touching the bearing , but....

What? The clip cannot be placed on the fork even if put on bass ackwards w/out it touching the TOB.
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Could it be that I just don't have the clutch properly adjusted yet? I know I need to bleed it again, and I had to bring the rod out at the pedal. But if it isn't correct, would that cause the TOB to rattle? Should the TOB be slightly pressed up against the PP with the clutch out?

Yes, the TOB should be weakly pressed against the diaphragm. This would probably eleviate any rattling noises and increase your throw. Increasing the rod length at the pedal using the lock nut will push the TOB against the diaphragm.
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I added a single lock washer to the new pivot ball, and I also have a new extended slave rod that I didn't install (heard both good and bad about those). Could using the extended rod help with any of this, or does it just affect the clutch throw when the pedal is pressed?

There's nothing wrong w/ using an extened rod as long as you can push the pedal to the floor and the fork does not contact the tranny bellhousing. This will also help press the TOB against the diaphragm. And add that slack into the effective throw of the slave cylinder.

Considering you have the tranny installed now, why not just try the extended slave rod to get the TOB up against the diphragm. As long as the clip is securing the TOB well. Again, I drove mine for a year w/ the clip put in upside down. I noticed it when swapping in my race disk. Consider this, wouldn't the TOB fall to the bottem of the bellhousing if the TOB wasn't held in place by the clip? Has your's shifted down the fork? A flashlight peering into the clutch fork hole can tell you this.

When using an extended slave rod, readjust the pedal so that the TOB lightly touches the diaphragm. Extending the slave rod or shimming the pivot ball increases the adjustability on the pedal assembly. REMEMBER to depress the pedal cautiously and determine if the clutch fork contacts the bellhousing. W/ a pivot ball shim (lock washer), you shouldn't have this problem. But better safe than cracked tranny case. Or broken block mounting ear.

 

[96gstdsm]

That happened to me before. I don't believe it hurts anything to drive it with the tob rattling like that. Is a real pain in the ass and obviously sounds terrible though. Did you use an oem tob? I know there were problems with the ACT ones I think that were metal sleeved. They tend to rattle, but I believe that those had been changed to the oem like ones that are plastic sleeved. I bought an ACT clutch and it came with a plastic sleeved one.
Sorry don't really know too much about any faster ways to replace or fix it. Just switched out my whole clutch and flywheel and tob when mine was rattling, seemed like a good enough excuse to upgrade.

 

[dsm-onster]

Yes. About TOBs. If yours ever goes bad, I've found great success w/ a Federal-Mogul TOB. It is about $32. Versus the $25 for a mitsu one. But you can pick it up at autozone so you don't have to pay shipping and is cheaper than a mitsu one from satan. This thing is stronger than a Mitsu bearing. As it does not have the little butterfly pieces holding the assembly together. It has the entire "casing" squeased around the base.

 

[Calan]

The one I just put in is from Mitsu. The 2600 came with one, but I left it on the bench and went with OEM.

Comparing them, the ACT bearing had the tabs, and the OEM one had the entire casing wrapping the base as you mentioned with the Federal-Mogul.

I appreciate the responses. I don't think the TOB is going anywhere ... it is clipped, but just not up and over the bearing. (clip is facing to the rear, but is upside down).

I'll play around with the clutch adjustment and maybe the extended rod before I start screaming and tearing down again.

 

[Calan]

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That is the proper oriantation per my 1992 Mitsubishi Factory Service Manual.
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Yeah... I have that diagram; but it doesn't show much other than the clip's loop faces the rear

I was looking for an actual photo showing the clip properly installed on the fork/bearing. I have some old parts at home...I may take a couple pics and post them for verification if I get a chance.

 

[dsm-onster]

Man, I've had it backwards, forwards, upside down, right side up. It didn't matter. I gave it a good tug before I replaced the tranny and it didn't come off in my hands. That's good enough for me

About the TOB. My mitsu one from the dealer (in the mitsubishi box and everything) had the two tabs holding the assembly together. This is the federal-mogul piece I got:

 

[Calan]

Without the "ears", where does the clip connect to the one on the right?

My Mitsu TOB looked like the one on the right, but had the "ears" on each side for the clip.

 

[dsm-onster]

No, I'm saying there's a little "clamp" Incorperated in the TOB housing. This clasps the the pressure plate side of the tob to the clutch fork side. The above pictures both are of just the Federal-Mogul one.

Here's a comparison I quickly drew. The top is the Mitsubishi version. The bottem is the Federal-Mogul.

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[Calan]

ahhhh... ok. That is what I thought you were originally referring to, so my first statement stands. The Mitsu bearing I got looks like your bottom drawing, and the one that came with the ACT 2600 looks like the top (and was a bit thinner also). I remember that I thought the Mitsu looked stronger because of that solid ring vs. the tabs.

Maybe they learned from Mogul and decided to upgrade them a bit

 

[dsm-onster]

Hmm, there must be two mitsu bearings???

That's odd. I got my mitsu bearing about a year ago. Have they changed since then? I've heard that the Mitsu bearing was "the best" so I got that w/ the clutch kit back then. And it failed. Now I'm no this Federal-Mogul. Very odd.

ExtremePSI sells an OEM mitsu TOB it looks like the "upper" one in my drawing:

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Looking at the pic you see the "clasping tab" wrap around the rim of the back section of the TOB. Not the entire bearing housing clasping the back section. . .

Also here's a pic of SBRs oem TOB they sell. Clearly you can see the little tab ont he bottem of the pic one of only two holding the whole assembly together. . .

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[Calan]

Hmm, there must be two mitsu bearings???

That's odd. I got my mitsu bearing about a year ago. Have they changed since then? I've heard that the Mitsu bearing was "the best" so I got that w/ the clutch kit back then. And it failed. Now I'm no this Federal-Mogul. Very odd.

Possible...I just picked this one up a couple weeks ago, directly from the dealer. It's interesting that the ACT bearing had the plastic sleeve like the OEM, but was a bit different in thickness...and the inner rings looked a bit different; plus the tabs that you mentioned. It's almost like ACT is shipping the old OEM bearing, and Mitsu changed theirs.

On a related note:

What would it hurt if I leave the clip as it is and can remove the noise (mostly) with a better clutch adjustment? Even with the clip upside down, the bearing isn't going anywhere.

 

[dsm-onster]

On a related note:

What would it hurt if I leave the clip as it is and can remove the noise (mostly) with a better clutch adjustment? Even with the clip upside down, the bearing isn't going anywhere.

That is what I'm saying. If you look back you'll see that I mentioned just adding the longer slave rod to make up for most of the difference. Then jsut adjust the pedal. You may in fact get away w/ just adjusting the pedal assembly right now!!! Go out and see if that's possible!

I've added pics verifying that the oem TOB is infact like my "upper drawing".

 

[Calan]

cool... gonna do that when I get home. I was basically asking a bit more info on what would happen as far as the clip goes.

Like.. hypothetically...if you could still assemble it properly, what would happen if you didn't even have the clip in there? Faster wear? Problems developing at the PP?

 

[dsm-onster]

Like I said, the TOB would slide down the clutch/throw-out fork. It would then stop disengaging. Ask me how I know .

 

[Calan]

I've added pics verifying that the oem TOB is infact like my "upper drawing".

Yeah... I'm starting to think that all the vendors sell their own versions of the official OEM Mitsu TOB.

I'm confused on the sliding comment. If the clucth is adjusted to keep the bearing lightly up against the PP, how could it slide anywhere? It would always be captured between the fork and plate wouldn't it?

 

[RedTurboEclipse]

sorry to bring this back up, but i'm in a similar situation..

i'm thinking about going with Federal-Mogul that the wiseman recommended here. has anybody else had experience with them?