Resolved Forced Performance Big 28?

[Generation X]

It seems that no one looks at the times list over at dsmtimes.org anymore. Look at how many 1g's compared to 2g's that are running the evoIII and you will notice there are more 1g's with the exception of shapeGSX with his 6bolt running faster times than 2g's period. You can do all the calculations that you want, inducer size, exducer size yadda yadda, but real world proof is where it's at. People also seem to forget that the 1g tb, intake manifold, and 1g head flow a lot more than the 2g. I see several awd 2g's running low 12's with the FPBig28 and a few fwd's in the 12's as well. The Big28 has only been out now for about three years compared to the 16g that's been out now for well over a decade. It also depends on who's tuning the car and if they no what the f@#k there doing. Have a nice day.

 

[herostar]

[rant]
Like some of the others have said, go with an Evo3 Big16g. I have a FP t28 atm and I am very disapointed in it. FP claims the turbo has quick spool up and will hold the boost longer in the rpm range, in testing the turbo doesnt really spool till about 3.5-4k, it surges alot pre 3k rpm, and it still drops off on boost from 6.5k+. This turbo also really sucks for boost creep due to the small as hell turbine housing of the t25. I guess if you hogged the crap out of the turbine housing it might help. If you plan on going beyond 13.5's then skip the t28, you will very quickly max out this turbo well before you need to go into higher level mods.
[/rant]

I don't know what you're doing wrong, but it's deffinately not the turbo. I ran a BIG28 from Forced Performance for two years with absolutely no problems. I didn't have the 17psi wastegate and still could hold 20+psi to redline. I loved that turbo. It got 20psi just before 3krpm. farnorthracing.com has a dyno sheet of 348awhp with the BIG28 at 25psi. For a daily driver I deffinately suggest this turbo unless you want an all-out drag car. Anyone who runs a BIG28 with a fmic, injectors, safc, etc. should be running mid-high 12's in a well-maintained car.

 

[DSMeclipse4G63]

. You can do all the calculations that you want, inducer size, exducer size yadda yadda, but real world proof is where it's at.

exactly...I have heard numerous people in awd on t28s doing deep 12s

. People also seem to forget that the 1g tb, intake manifold, and 1g head flow a lot more than the 2g.

the head flows MORE not BETTER....

. Have a nice day.

you too

 

[Rick4g63]

I agree with pgblio, any 50 trim can support 350+ whp.

 

[tdyyalot]

I've had my T28 on now for about a year and I really like it but am ready for something bigger. I hit 18 psi by 2800rpm and the torque hits hard; excellent for an awd. The top end is fair, but leaves room for improvement. City driving is great with this turbo, but it is obvious that the engine is feeling a bit choked above 5000rpm. If going streetlight to streetlight, I would recommend this one, but don't expect quarter-mile records.

 

[pboglio]

o and which is a better on the roll turbo (like freeway, or just getting up to speed on a roll)

Here is a recommendation. If your interested, follow this link and download the DSMLINK "V2.5" full install if you can:

http://www.dsmlink.com/downloads.html

I can than forward you some datalogs of FPBig28, EVOIII 16g, 20g-TD06, 50 trims, FP3052, etc. Those logs show some very well tuned cars starting a 3rd gear spool up run from 2000 rpm all the way up until they make full boost and beyond. It shows the airflow and torque as well. This will give you a boost threshold (where boost goes from negative to a positive number) and the rpm where you get full boost, say 15 psi.

I've also got a couple of examples of well tuned: T28, EVOIII 16g, 20g, etc doing some 1/4 mile runs and 1st-4th gear WOT pulls. This would at least let you compare the power difference, boost requirements, and rev limits needed to even utilize a larger turbo, even if you had all the supporting mods. Then you can make an educated decision based on empirical data and what your driving style and needs are.

Use this link also to access the DSMLink forums: http://www.dsmlink.com/forums

You might have to signup first to even access it. Do some searching for turbo acronyms to find datalogs you can analyze. They have a huge database and most guys on that list have some absolutely monster setups and are pretty advanced. I've found most guys there to be mature and well educated, not that my fellow DSMtuners aren't shining examples of maturity. You'll get all the help you need (datalogs, setup info, etc) if you ask the right questions. Knowledge is power. Cheers.

 

[ShapeGSX]

so between the EvoIII Big 16g and the FP Big28, which would i be getting more power from. Whats both turbo's Max HP rating?? Thx

You will make more power with an Evo III 16G. The T28 just can't flow as much air through the compressor inlet.

 

[ShapeGSX]

Volumetric efficency has to do with the engine not the turbo.

If the turbine is too restrictive, your exhaust manifold pressure increases a ton. This can lead to issues with exhaust staying in the cylinder. More exhaust in the cylinder = less volumetric efficiency. So a turbo can definitely affect VE.

The evo316g can produce around 400whp(I think sbr are the only people doing this right now)

Perhaps the only people with a dyno printout.

 

[Generation X]

exactly...I have heard numerous people in awd on t28s doing deep 12s



the head flows MORE not BETTER....



you too

Hee! Hee! Thanks for correcting my choice of words.

 

[Lord Khan]

I don't care what people say in this thread, IMO, the T28 is the **** for a daily driven 2G. With my setup of Greddy hard pipes, FMIC, Type-S BOV, and Thermal exhaust, and the FPBig-T28, not only does it spool up fast as hell at 3000rpms, but the car sounds mean when boosting. From the drone of the exhaust, to the roar of the boosting BigT28,a and the scream of the Type-S, mixed with the immediate pull of an almost no-lag turbo, the car is just fun to drive, and fast as hell. Of course the bigger turbos will offer more power, etc, but just like others have said, people aren't considering the supporting mods that have to go with just putting in those bigger turbos like that. My engine died this past weekend, and I'm currently looking for a new one to put in, but I'm definately keeping my BigT28. It is just a damn good streetable turbo.

 

[Lord Khan]

o and which is a better on the roll turbo (like freeway, or just getting up to speed on a roll)

While not he best race turbo, the BigT28 is the best "touring" turbo for quick accelleration on the highway, or open road. It can boost quickly which can pull you around the open road almost as soon as you hit the gas pedal. However, an Evo III 16G or equivalent at a roll should be quite sufficient as well, and is better for racing also.

 

[Rick4g63]

Khan how did your engine blow? are you gonna rebuild or swap?

This I think is the ultimate "sleeper" turbo with the frank CW
http://www.turbochargers.com/Turbos/TurboUpgrades/Eliminator.htm

 

[Lord Khan]

Khan how did your engine blow? are you gonna rebuild or swap?

This I think is the ultimate "sleeper" turbo with the frank CW
http://www.turbochargers.com/Turbos/TurboUpgrades/Eliminator.htm

Not sure yet. I have to wait til it goes into the shop, but I'm wondering if Crankwalk had anything to do with it. Although it sounds like its a broken rod, I was starting to hear clicking sounds occasionally when turning also, which I know is sometimes symtoms of CW, but also, I have some issues with my front suspension so I don't know if that caused the clicking or not.

Not sure what I'm going to do yet. Looking over my options. I may just go with a 1st gen JDM a new clutch, 3rd gen lifters, steal head gasquet for reinforcment, and new motormounts. That seems like the best thing to do for my budget.

 

[Jeff_Jeske]

I have had a FPB28 on my 98 AWD MTX for about 6 months. Stock 7bolt with stock cams. I have all the other supporting mods but I did have the 28 on with stock SMIC and such.

I am moving 36LBS of air at 20PSI (dsmlink log upon request) and have full spool by 3k.

Forced Performance claims 36LBS is about max on this turbo but with cams and a SMIM you may be able to raise that some.

For the average guy the FPB28 is plenty....install is a no brainer....its a drop in turbo that will easily put you in the 12s.

The thing is ....price.... If you are buying new you are better off to get the EVO16G. It has similar spool but more topend.

If you are interested in getting a slightly used FPB28 I am willing to sell mine at a very reasonable price. I will be going with the GREEN this summer.

[email protected]

 

[Rick4g63]

You can get a reman T-28 for the same price as a big 16g
http://www.turbochargers.com/Turbos/TurboUpgrades/T28.htm

The japan silvia came with a T-28

 

[ShapeGSX]

I wouldn't buy a Big T28 from anyone except the guys wo made it first, Forced Performance.

 

[Rick4g63]

The specs of the japan nissan silvia with the t-28

http://www.visualizemotorsports.com/Tech Info.htm

The t-25/28, however, does not have the "j" pipe outlet and turbine housing is different.

 

[heavyD]

You can get a reman T-28 for the same price as a big 16g
http://www.turbochargers.com/Turbos/TurboUpgrades/T28.htm

The japan silvia came with a T-28

The T28 in the Silvia is a ballbearing unit which is different from the typical DSM T28.

 

[big_88_ca]

While we are talking about t28s can anyone tell me the differences between those models:
t28
big t28
big t28 killer
on turbochargers.com they sell the t28/bigt28 as they are the same and sell a stage 2 t28/bigt28 at a more expensive price they also have the big t28 killer, but on forcedperformance.com they sell the t28 and the bigt28 being an upgrade of the first.

Thanks

 

[GPTourer]

a regular t-28, is untouched straight from Garrett. From reviews I have heard it is like a t-25 that can hold boost to redline, not much of an upgrade IMO -especially since they are pricey.

A Big28 is a FP registered name, and it is the replacement for an upgraded T-28 they pioneered with custom wheels inside the T-28 housing to max it out.

Anything with the name "killer" in it is a TC.com design that uses Mitsubishi wheels inside T3/25/28 housings to get a Mitsubishi style turbo on to a 2G without an install kit. They have very mixed reviews and I would say to avoid them and go with a true Mitsu turbo with an install kit (with EvoIII and TD06H-20G being the best choices IMO)

 

[spectr019]

wow this thread seems to be getting a little personal, so hopefully I won't upset anybody with my own opinion. The Evo and the T28 are both sweet upgrades and will get you to admire what these cars can do even more. For pure speed and go-fast time, then the Evo III would be the better turbo. There arn't really any ways around it. Yes, you CAN beat an Evo with a T28, but you need to be one hell of a tuner (or just hope that the Evo driver is horrible), and you have to have some good supporting mods. Now keep in mind that while I'm saying this, I myself have a FP Big28. So that's my opinion for speed. For that certain person just looking for some more power than what the 'legendary' T25 could offer, then the FPT28 is an ideal choice.
With either choice, you'll be getting more power. But also keep in mind, that no matter WHAT turbo you put in, there will ALWAYS be somebody faster than you out there.
I'm very happy with my FP Big28. When I got it I wasn't looking to be incredibly fast, I just wanted something more than what I had been driving for a year and a half. And probably in another year or so I'll want more, and THEN I'll get the Evo III after I get the proper fuel mods. Although SOME are technically capable and competent enough to start off big, I say you should try crawl before you walk...or in the case of boost, before you run
Again, hope I didn't offend anybody with my thoughts on the two turbos.

Ben

 

[Gators453]

This will be the 2nd summer i've had my FP28 on my awd talon. although, the one time i ran my car the transmission went out, but before that with the stock exhaust, stock boost and fuel, and the fp28 i went 14.9 at 90mph. considering my only mods were the turbo, 1g bov, and hard uicp, i don't think that's too bad. however, i baught mine from a trusted friend who was selling his car and wanted to swap me my stock t-25 for his FP28 + $500. he baught it new from FP, had them port it, ported ex. mani and o2, so that was also applied to when i ran my time. this summer, with bigger injectors (560's), 190 pump, and i already have a full 3' turbo back, i'm pretty confident i can reach mid 14's consitantly.

However, i would have NEVER baught the turbo straight from FP for what they are asking. in my opinion, for that much there's better turbos. my friend had a sleeper 20g on his 98 gsx, and let me just say that for the price he paid, i wish i would have done that route too. but if all you're looking for is a fun car to drive, the 28 will supply you with it. i have beaten my fair shair of v8s, but also have lost some races. so you wont be invincible, but with the right set up you can hold your own with it. but for the time that you need to run it as if it was a stock turbo, you will have no problems with it. i can't say how other turbos are in this area, since i've only had the t25 then the fp28, but i ran mine as a stock setup for the hole summer and never once had a problem. after the 3' turbo back went on, without even touching the boost (didn't even have a boost cont., just a gauge) it went from around 11psi to 16-17psi just from the exhaust. now i have a b/c and set it at 12 since i'm still on the stock fuel, but when i was hitting 16-17 psi before i could control it, it was hitting around 27-28k rpms. if you had a fwd, i would definatly not recomend this turbo b/c it hits hard and instantly, and you would have a hell of a time trying to control wheel spin. but like someone said, no matter how much you think you wont want to upgrade, you will. the drug comparison is genius, that is exactly how it is. i too said that the fp28 would be my only turbo upgrade, but i find myself now searching for more, not b/c i've maxed out the turbo, far from that, i just know that even when i do i'm gonna be wanting more, so i'm at the crossroads of continueing to build this setup or put the k-bash on it and draw something new up. hope this helps you in anyway.

 

[spectr019]

well as usual yall are right on it, but you take so long to say it!! The FP Big28 is a good upgrade from the T28, but as said earlier in the thread it isn't going to be a hell of a lot better without the 17 psi actuator. And for that you'll need to do the fuel mods. THEN you'll notice the difference and bring out some of it's actual potential. All in all, it's a good turbo, but if you want to go FAST then yeah, the Evo III would be the ideal upgrade, but you'll need ALL the supporting mods.

Ben

 

[Bigglesworth87]

Since your in Cali, I will give another +1 for a t28. Its got the appearance of a stock turbo. So when you go get smogged or pulled by the police there is nothing to worry about. You wont have to return it to the stock turbo setup for a test. Thought I would chime in with this for you. Any 16g setup still doesn't look stock. I made up my mind on the fpt28 because of this. I mean sure its not as potent as the e316g but Im not pulling the turbo off every 2 years. Just a thought!