First Rebuild- Pistons and Rods combo? Need rebuild advice.

[fourgsixthree33]

Hey guys. About to start my first rebuild after I encountered rod knock. I plan to do a full rebuild (rods, pistons, bearings, etc.) with maybe the exception of a new crank.

I have a 7 bolt in my 93 TSi AWD that I will be rebuilding. I already have a head which is a stock complete rebuilt 7 bolt 1G head with a 3 angle valve job. All the parts in it are brand new.

So I know what I have for a top end, but not sure what to do with the bottom end. I guess I should start by telling you my plans for the car. The most important thing is reliability. This is my daily driver so that is a biggie. The second thing to keep in mind is I am on a tight budget and want to spend the least amount of money possible. Lastly, I would like to upgrade in any way possible. I figured if I am doing all of this work, I would like to put something in the was slightly better than what I took out.

Unless I can find some sick deals on some aftermarket stuff, I would like to use 6 bolt rods as they are a little thicker and are more tolerant to abuse. What would be a good recommendation for pistons?

As for some sick deals, I found some Evo 9 pistons with brand new 7 bolt rods and new rings for $120. But, that will most likely fall through from either being sold or from the guy realizing how much money he would be losing.

I would really like to stay away from 2G pistons for the simple fact of the oil squirters issues you are always hearing about.

I would really appreciate some replies since this is my first ever rebuild on a fuel injected engine and I know there are thousands of combinations out there for the 4G63. The possibilities are endless. But, don't know much about this kind of thing. Any hints, tips, suggestions, etc are VERY MUCH welcomed!

 

[boostdawd]

+1 on this too!Im also doing a rebuild and need tips......

 

[fourgsixthree33]

+1 on this too!Im also doing a rebuild and need tips......

What all have you considered doing?

 

[richard33]

You should be able to scoop up some forged internals for a good price. If not maybe a 6 bolt rod and an aftermarket piston.

What are you horsepower goals in the future. If you plan on making 400+ you might as well build the block while you are doing it now.

 

[fourgsixthree33]

You should be able to scoop up some forged internals for a good price. If not maybe a 6 bolt rod and an aftermarket piston.

What are you horsepower goals in the future. If you plan on making 400+ you might as well build the block while you are doing it now.

Can't afford machine work, that's for sure. As far as HP goals, I only want just over 300HP and maybe upping it to 350HP over the next year or so. So I dont need anything extreme. But it would be nice to have a bottom end that will easily support 400HP later on down the road if I decide to do so.

 

[Deuce_three]

You should really consider saving up for machine work + semi/full forged setup. If you have another dd then you should buy the parts slowly until you get it all.

Oem replacement parts and arps can get you to your goal pretty easy with a good tune.

If you can't find a good deal on cl or classifieds. Call the vendors and see if they can get you a deal.

Also, I don't recommend using a cut/rebuild crankshaft if that's on your list as far as a budget build cause I can almost guarantee something will go wrong with the cut crank.
Check what happen to my last build... http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/art...reviews/403071-crankshaft-rebuilders-inc.html

All I can say is I love paycheck to paycheck builds....

 

[fourgsixthree33]

This is actually my only car. I have been walking to work. So time is a big thing here. I have been thinking about either evo 9 pistons with 7 bolt rods or just new 7 bolt rods and pistons. DSMgraveyard has a couple specials.
DSM Graveyard - Your #1 Source for DSM Parts!
DSM Graveyard - Your #1 Source for DSM Parts!

I would like to get big 6 bolt rods but wouldn't I have to use a 6 bolt crank? If I go the cheaper route and get stock replacement internals without a crank assuming my current crank is ok, I then might be able to thing about simple machine work. I have no idea...this is really starting to get irritating. No idea what to do.

 

[Deuce_three]

Yes, 6 bolts rods can only go on 6 bolt crank as far as I know, unless someone can grind down the big end and bearing surface to the specifications of a 7 bolt crankshaft. Even then its not worth it.

I had the 2g/evo setup on my last build. It was nice little upgrade. But for another $150 more I could of went with a full forged setup. But none the less, it was still a nice setup.

Bring your crank to reputable machine shop and see if they can mic + polish if it checks out. Should cost around $30 or so. No more then $40

I advice to at-least get your new/current block bored, honed and/or decked if it isn't straight to the next piston size for peace of mind. Shouldn't cost to much to do it.

 

[fourgsixthree33]

Yea 6 bolts rods can only go on 6 bolt crank as far as I know, unless someone can grind down the big end and bearing surface to the specifications of a 7 bolt crankshaft. Even then its not worth it.

I had the 2g/evo setup on my last build. It was nice little upgrade. But for another $150 more I could of went with a full forged setup. But none the less, it was still a nice setup.

Bring your crank to reputable machine shop and see if they can mic + polish if it checks out. Should cost around $30 or so. No more then $40

I advice to at-least get your new/current block bored/hones to the next piston size for peace of mind. Shouldn't cost to much to do it.

That's what I was thinking too. Another $150 or so, I could get a full forged setup. Think I should just go oem? Since I don't intend on going anywhere near 400HP on this engine/car. Just get myself a nice, solid rebuild bottom end good for another 160K.

There are other things I need to get as well. Hot side of the turbo is cracked. Don't really know how to explain the park that is cracked. Like the center section. I also need a o2 housing since my wastegate doesn't seal..like at all. My exhaust manifold is cracked nearly in half (exaggerating).

Might be smarter to just go with an oem rebuild. What do you think?

 

[Deuce_three]

It's been proven that non forged setup (oem rebuilt) can get you 300+ hp. But it would be much more safer with a forged setup of course.

From the sound of your situation I would do a oem rebuilt, good bearings (acl, clevite, etc), upgraded fasteners (arp) and of course some machining.

But then again... it's all up to you.

I would personally do a forged setup for a 1 time upgrade. (sorry to get you thinking again.)

As far as your turbo/manifold situation. Replace what is broken. What turbo do you have? If its the 14b, then either replace it with another good condition 14b, or find a 14b donor with a good hotside and replace your hotside with that.

You can get a 2g manifold (a good upgrade) for free-$30. No more then that.

 

[fourgsixthree33]

It would be nice to get a forged setup. Any modifications needed in order to run evo 9 pistons? Would I be able to use a Felpro head gasket running the evo 9 pistons? I think I am going to go oem if I don't get evo 9 pistons. I know I will kick myself in the ass some day but at the same time, I can only do what I can afford.

 

[talonDSMerr]

Machine work isn't too expensive, and with new piston rings, you need at least a hone so the cylinder bores have a fresh cross-hatch. It's essential for the rings to seal.

OEM isn't a bad idea. Forged internals give you no performance (other than higher compression pistons) gain over OEM. They're only needed when you push the limits of the stock parts, which doesn't sound like you'll be doing. Even then, the stock parts have been proven to hold together pretty well. No need getting things you won't be using, right?

 

[fourgsixthree33]

True. Any input on using 6 bolt rods hung on 7 bolt pistons? Thedsmgraveyard has 6 bolt rods that they convert for use on the 7 bolt block/crank. But they will be like $330 since I cannot send a core plus shipping. Which seems kind of ridiculous.

The 7 bolt rods are only $170 with no core plus shipping. But I could send in my rods which would deduct $50. Both of these are reconditioned, bead blasted, re-sized big end to the .0001 of an inch, and APR's installed, precision honed, and balanced to .1Gram big and small end.

Maybe there are better deals from other vendors?

 

[rlacasse1]

Just do a stock 7-bolt bottom end. That will be the cheapest route for you. And will handle the 400 without a hitch.

Just find a good crank and rod/rods (depending on how many you need) in the classifieds. Don't replace your pistons, they should be fine.

That will be the cheapest and easiest route for you to get to your 400 goal.

 

[fourgsixthree33]

Hopefully I can find some 7 bolt internals. I swear they are harder to find than 6 bolt internals.

 

[rlacasse1]

Your rods may be fine as well as long as you didn't keep running the engine and as long as the bearing didn't slip to bad. So you may be able to just get away with getting a good crank. Or having yours machined.

 

[fourgsixthree33]

Guess I won't know for sure until I dissasemble the engine and inspect everything. In any case, I will most likely buy a set of used rods and a crank. That way I will have them if needed and can begin work sooner to get it back together sooner.

 

[thetalonator]

go thru the motor n replace all worn parts with oem or repitable aftermarket. dont waste time or money on the head or anything if your goal is 350 hp but u will get bored with 350 hp. you will want more so keep that in mind as well.

 

[fourgsixthree33]

I know I will kick myself in the butt some day for not upgrading my internals while I am doing on this. But at the same time I don't want to wait 6 months to be able to afford rebuilding with upgraded internals. I plan on getting at least one more DSM in a years time. Which I plan to build the f*ck out of.

300HP is enough to smoke honda's on the way home from getting my groceries.

Alright so I was just offered a good deal on evo pistons and rods for $100. What rings would I need to get? I believe they are the same 85mm bore as the DSM pistons. Which would be DSM Graveyard - Your #1 Source for DSM Parts!.

Then get ACL or Clevitte bearings and call it a day. http://www.thedsmgraveyard.com/product_p/pfm77%20cb-1643p.htm