Extremely bad front tire wear

[zepheron]

I'm having a horrible problem. In the past year I've had to replace my lower control arms twice. First was wear and tear, second was an oil sending unit exploding oil all over the bushings. Granted, I only had to pay for them once since it was under warranty, so that's nice.

ANYWAY, last time I had them replaced was.. 4 months ago? Maybe 4 or 5k miles ago. I bought four brand new tires as well at that point. I check them today, and one front tire has steel showing, and the insides on both are wearing really bad. Could this be the control arms once more, rotors, or what else should I check for while under there?

 

[roostinds]

Is your car lowered??

 

[zepheron]

Oh sorry, no. Stock ride height. Also had alignment done with the new tires and control arms, of course.

 

[brassc2007]

this sounds like an alignment problem like the tires are plowing down the road. have you had the alignment check it sounds like your tie rod ends are tightened in to much, and not a control arm problem

Alignment terminology
The following information was supplied by the John Bean 5 series alignment machine. The information is not meant to be passed as being my own and all credit goes to the John Bean company and it's associates. Information I add will be notated as follows: *** Text ***

-Caster
The function of CASTER is to aid proper steering stability. The greater the CASTER, the more the vehicle's steering will try to return to straight ahead. CASTER provides this by tilting the vehicle's steering pivot axis to the front or the rear. This axis is an imaginary line drawn through the upper and lower steering pivot points when the vehicle is viewed from the side. These pivot points can be the upper and lower ball joints on an SALA suspension system. On strut equipped vehicles, they are the lower ball joint and the upper bearing plate. As viewed from the side, the line drawn through the steering pivots compared to a true vertical is CASTER. If the top of this line is tilted to the rear of the vehicle, the CASTER is said to be positive.

-SAI (Steering Axis Inclination)
SAI, along with CASTER, provides steering stability and steering wheel return to straight ahead. SAI is often called a diagnostic angle because it, along with CAMBER can be used to diagnose damaged or worn suspension components. When SAI and CAMBER are added together, the INCLUDED ANGLE is formed. When SAI is out of specs, CAMBER should be measured and added (if positive) or subtraced (if negative) to get the INCLUDED ANGLE. Refer to the service manual for charts which aid in diagnosing problems using these angles.

SAI is not usually adjustable, although it can change as other adjustments are performed. CMABER should be adjusted as close to specs as possible, before calculating the INCLUDED ANGLE.

-SAI (Steering Axis Inclination)
SAI, Like Caster is a measure of the vehicle's steering axis. SAI is the angle of the steering axis from the vertical, when viewed from the front. SAI angle is always positive, in other words the upper steering pivot is always closer to the vehicle's center than the lower.
SAI will cause the spindle to try to pivot downward as the wheels are steered away from the straight ahead. Since it cannot go downward, this raises the vehicle. Gravity then makes the vehicle settle, or steer back to straight ahead.

-Camber
A tire may be straight up and down, or it may lean so it is in or out at the top. This condition is called CAMBER. If the tire leans IN at the top, so it is towards the vehicle, this is NEGATIVE CAMBER, and the minus sign (-) is used. If the tire leans OUT at the top, CAMBER is positive. Straight up is zero (0). If a CAMBER reading is zero, it does not mean "no reading", it is an actual measurement, and is often a specification. CAMBER is measured as an angle from straight up (true vertical). It is measured in degrees.

-Camber Causing Pull
If a tire is leaned slightly, and rolled, it trys to roll in the direction of the lean. Thus, CAMBER can create a pull or lead in a vehicle. If CAMBER is the same on each side of the vehicle, the pulls will cancel each other, but if different, the vehicle should pull towards the side with the most positive CAMBER.
CAMBER is sometimes used to correct a minor pull problem, especially with front wheel drive vehicles. Due to manufacturer's tolerances on their specifications, some amount of adjustment is permitted. If pulling LEFT, increase right side CAMBER, or decrease left CAMBER. If pulling RIGHT, increase left side CAMBER, or decrease right CAMBER.

-Cross Camber
CROSS CAMBER is the difference between the left and right CAMBER readings. CROSS CAMBER can cause a pull. Often, this can happen even when both CAMBER readings are within specification, particularly if the tolerance (+/-) is large. For this reason, more and more manufacturers are specifying maximum CROSS CAMBER and CROSS CASTER values.

-Toe
TOE settings during driving should be straight ahead. During driving, normal forces may cause the TOE settings to be different than when the vehicle sits on the alignment rack. For this reason, manufacturer's specifications are usually near zero but not at zero. Incorrect TOE settings cause the tire to roll at an angle. This is the leading cause of tire wear!

TOE IN (Front of tires is closer together) is positive.
TOE OUT (rear of tires is closer together) is negative.

TOE should be adjusted after CASTER and CAMBER.

-How Toe Is Diagnosed
Your FMC Visualiner can diagnose and correct TOE problems before tire damage is done **** that was info specifically for alignment machine**** If however, a vehicle has been driven with improper TOE, the wear pattern on the tire will tell the story.
Excessive TOE IN will cause the increased wear on the outside edges, and the tread will often be saw toothed. When rubbing the tire with your hand from the inside towards the outside, the sharp edges will be felt.
Excessive TOE OUT will cause increased wear on the inside edge, and if saw toothed, the effect can be felt by rubbing from the outside to the inside. Badly misadjusted TOE can also cause: wander, poor handling, and a crooked steering wheel.

compliments to doug99rs for this right up

 

[galant344]

sounds like you definitely have an alignment issue. those lower lateral arms and control arms go bad but not that easliy, esp on a stock suspension. I would defnintely have the alignment checked again and ask for the print out. you haven't hit anything to cause anything on the suspension to become bent have you?
are your upper control arms in good shape? also are your strut towers rusted out?

i just saw you are from florida.... probably not a strut tower rust issue.

 

[zepheron]

Thanks, guys.

I suppose it could be the alignment. Just seems ridiculous since it was done not that long ago. Haven't hit anything outrageous in the road, I try to avoid potholes and uneven parts.. and all the other parts on the suspension look good, just double checked. Just have to go on Monday and see!

 

[galant344]

only other thing i can think of would be a extreamly bad hub bearing. but even that wouldn't wear the tires so extreamly bad in such a short period of time. and i would think you would notice that or they would have gotten so bad the car wouldn't be driveable by then.

 

[brassc2007]

alignment is a funny thing cause it isn't exactly what it was when you leave the shop conditions always change and it depends on where they set it i would go back to the same place and tell them they did a crappy job and you want them to check it and fix it if they did not do it right the first time. I had mine done once and they didn't even get the steering wheel straight i was pissed.

 

[zepheron]

I think they didn't do it right, because it pulls even harder to the left than usual. I was just adding that up to stupid FWD, but I knew in the back of my head it was more than was supposed to be.

The manager at Firestone is a friend of the family, and he let me switch the lifetime alignment I had on my last vehicle to my Eclipse, so it's always been them. Even so.. damnit. Do it right.

 

[brassc2007]

ya if its pulling than your alignment it off is should be going as straight as the crappy roads in this country should let

 

[gearhead37683]

sounds like you deff. have some alignment issues, maybe your tie rods are bad, or something but you should deff. have your alignment checked again

 

[slvrbllt]

you should go back to the shop and show them your tires

 

[Jafro]

Jack the front end up. Lift up-down-side-side-in-out on the wheel. If you feel ANY clunking or slop in either wheel, check all of the components responsible for keeping the wheel centered. If nothing moves, it can't be anything but alignment or shock tower failures. This is the non-scientific back-yard mechanic method. Visually inspect these parts and find the loose/sloppy part.

Up-down clunking = ball joints.

Side-side clunking = tie rod.

Wobbly all the way around is the hub bearing.

Front-back is the trailing arm.

If the tire appears flat-spotted around the tire's circumference, it's the strut.

 

[Rob10_99]

Jafro got it pretty much, front end is a cause of a lot of issues. If your friend of the family is a good friend he would put your car up on a(COMPLETE PILE OF CRAP LIFT) that that have at tire shops and diagnose what's wrong, most of those guys doing tire installs should be able to figure it out.

FYI, those tire shop lifts that lift the car in a way thats like "3/4 of this half of the car by 1/2 of this half of the car" will damage certain cars, IE ANY Nissan 350z it absolutely will crack the headers and or cat/test pipe. Certain cars cannot be lifted this way.

 

[Ibbanez]

Definately alignment problem. I wonder if they are gonna cover the new tires seeing as how they messed up. But knowing these places they wont. The only chance you might have is cause you know the guy.

 

[zepheron]

Oh they're gonna cover the new tires after I'm done arguing, they should expect that haha. I didn't pay all that money for them to do it without doing everything correctly.

 

[blakktalon]

Wow the tires are only four months old and already have steel showing?? Thats crazy.

 

[FaNtUm2113]

the problem with trying to get the shop to cover the new tires is that alignments are never exact and they will claim that your driving and driving conditions can cause excessive tire wear...this deffinatly sounds liek the alignment is way off but it could because the car rather then the previous alignment.

 

[boostd_mitsu]

if you got the tires and had the alignment done at the same place at the same time then they SHOULD have records of the and if they are a reputable shop they will do something about it like replace the tires and recheck everything for you

 

[zepheron]

Updated: whoever did the alignment messed it up big time. They gave me new tires for free and realigned.. however they said that it's getting pretty bad, 1.29 degrees off or something (I didn't get to keep the printout) and I kind of feel a "dead zone" in my steering. I was thinking camber kits? Could this possibly help?

 

[Fabian]

wow thats really good of them to give you new tires and realign. Good for you man! A camber kit could help you alot, they'd be able to install one for you too. check out ebay for decent priced kits

 

[hhuricane]

If they are saying 1.29 degrees NEGATIVE camber that is not bad at all. I run -1 degrees all the time and I know others that run -2 with no problems. If that is what he is talking about you should have no problems. If you are not sure ask him again what he means "1.29 degrees". Best to know for sure.

 

[Jafro]

New tire win.

Do that backyard suspension check I mentioned earlier and you might find something conclusive to why they couldn't adjust it out. ...only add one thing to the other list. Grab the rear trailing arms in the front end and give them a big wiggle. If you see slop in the bushings or the ball joint, replace it.

Worn suspension parts are the #1 things I find wrong with 2g's.

 

[zepheron]

Alright, I'll check eBay for some camber kits, and try to jack up my car within the next couple of days to check the other parts. Thanks for the advice, everyone!