EVo III Big 16G

[Race94]

so if i put on this turbo porting will be defineately necessary??

 

[Patter$on]

porting the turbo wont stop boost creep you need to get a larger ported o2 housing that should help

 

[doug]

But there are guys on here running an O2 Eliminator downpipe that are still creeping. From what I understood, O2 Elim downpipes flow even better through the wastegate passage than a ported O2 housing.

 

[jake98gst]

Does anyone know exactly what causes the creep on this turbo. Dead-on boost control from the newly designed turbine housing is one of the things that attracted me to this turbo from the start. If we knew what caused it, we could probably learn how to fix it.

Jake

 

[Groomz]

Boost creep really depends on the vehicle and the condition it is in. Swapping out for new vacuum/boost hoses would be a good start. Porting the wastegate area and installing a 34mm flapper helps. If you plan on running high boost then boost control is not as important, unless you want to run high/low boost settings for FWD or something like it. If you have an O2 eliminator ( RNR Racing ) then you could port the turbo alot in the wastegate area but leave the turbine area untouched, b/c it flows pretty well already. You just have to work with your own boost creep situation until you get it resolved. Too large an exhaust on too small a turbo ( T25 and 3 inch exhaust for example ) would cause boost creep. Just make sure that turbo is flowing enough for that exhaust and you should be fine.

 

[heavyD]

Sure glad I opted for an FP BigT28 and not the EVOIII 16G. It may make slightly less power in the upper range but I don't have to worry about the boost creep problems that are a real issue with the EVOIII 16G.:laugh:

 

[heavyD]

Sure glad I opted for an FP BigT28 and not the EVOIII 16G. It may make slightly less power in the upper range but I don't have to worry about the boost creep problems that are a real issue with the EVOIII 16G.

 

[ShapeGSX]

Uhh, all 16Gs have boost creep issues with a free flowing exhaust. So would your T28, if it didn't have a larger flapper valve.

You can install a larger flapper on a 16G, too, which will definitely get rid of creep without a doubt. But there is a chance your boost will drop. If you instead port intelligently, you can get rid of creep on a 16G without the boost drop issue. But, personally, I wouldn't blindly install a larger flapper on ANY internal wastegate, regardless of the turbo.

Dennis Grant has shown that the Big28 has issues with boost drop, as well.

 

[heavyD]

Sure glad I opted for an FP BigT28 and not the EVOIII 16G. It may make slightly less power in the upper range but I don't have to worry about the boost creep problems that are a real issue with the EVOIII 16G.

 

[Groomz]

triple post on a thread??? Must be a record!

:laugh:

 

[Zex4g63]

Originally posted by ShapeGSX
But there is a chance your boost will drop. But, personally, I wouldn't blindly install a larger flapper on ANY internal wastegate, regardless of the turbo.[/B]

Now everyone will want to know why the boost will drop and what's wrong with the big flapper Josh.

 

[RipperXX]

Originally posted by jake98gst
Bad experience with RRE? I just found another place that does them like this. ExhaustDepot.com has AWD DP's for 170 and they're stainless steel. FWD ones are 205 since they have more bends. So let's not make Apex-i look too good because the Exhaust Depot ones that are ss and cheaper too.

I went there and looked at there DP it looks ok but it does not list what size it is. Is it OEM, 2.5" 3" what???

 

[heavyD]

Sure glad I opted for an FP BigT28 and not the EVOIII 16G. It may make slightly less power in the upper range but I don't have to worry about the boost creep problems that are a real issue with the EVOIII 16G.:laugh:

 

[Race94]

so i'll have to port ___________ __(elaborate)how much to get rid or have low creep on a evo III 16g w/ an apexi 3" turbo-back???

 

[jake98gst]

Originally posted by RipperXX
I went there and looked at there DP it looks ok but it does not list what size it is. Is it OEM, 2.5" 3" what???

Quoted from Exhaust Depot Website ...
"Our downpipe is made out of T304 stainless steel. It's a 2.5" pipe from the turbo up to the flex(no boost creap), from the flex(flex is also 3" unlike the others) back is a 3". It replaces the main cat also! This is an easy 15-20hp mod on the eclipse. It will bolt on to your stock catback and aftermarket catback. Gaskets are included with this DP."

uhh...what? Must have missed that part.

 

[Zex4g63]

Originally posted by Race94
so i'll have to port ___________ __(elaborate)how much to get rid or have low creep on a evo III 16g w/ an apexi 3" turbo-back???

On mine I removed the step and opened the enrance to flapper up. I think one problem is that people don't run the fire ring. I believe the step causes turbulence without the ring in there. I have a sneaky feeling that if someone just uses the ring it will cure the creep. Patter$on stated that you just needed a larger O2 housing. That is wrong, I have a 2.5" tubular housing and external dump. Still had lotsa creep.

 

[heavyD]

OOPS! Sorry about the multiple posts guys. I only meant to send it once but the "submit" page kept locking up so kept klicking the "submit" button until it went through. It went through alright. I wasn't trying to be an ass.

 

[Enraged78]

Originally posted by jake98gst
Quoted from Exhaust Depot Website ...
"Our downpipe is made out of T304 stainless steel. It's a 2.5" pipe from the turbo up to the flex(no boost creap), from the flex(flex is also 3" unlike the others) back is a 3". It replaces the main cat also! This is an easy 15-20hp mod on the eclipse. It will bolt on to your stock catback and aftermarket catback. Gaskets are included with this DP."

uhh...what? Must have missed that part.

I have this pipe. Great quality, great construction. Especially for the price. However, I also have a nasty case of boost creep in very cold weather. The no boost creep claim is just not true. Any time it's above 50 degrees, I'm fine. At 20 degrees, I get creep up to 20PSI. I also have the 14b inlet ported mildly, and the exhaust housing ported with the step removed. I also have the 34mm flapper, and the hole is hogged to 28.5mm.

Bottom line: 2G's will creep with a 3 inch exhaust and upgraded turbo. Removing the divider between the wastegate passage and the exhaust housing will stop it. External wastegates will stop it. Bigger flappers help a little. Porting the head will help. A cat would help. Restrictive head design is why 2G's creep more than 1Gs.

Matt.

 

[ShapeGSX]

Originally posted by Enraged78

Bottom line: 2G's will creep with a 3 inch exhaust and upgraded turbo. Removing the divider between the wastegate passage and the exhaust housing will stop it.

That is the worst idea yet. It does stop boost creep. But not for the reason you might think. It stops creep because it destroys your turbine efficiency.

 

[Groomz]

Originally posted by heavyD
OOPS! Sorry about the multiple posts guys. I only meant to send it once but the "submit" page kept locking up so kept klicking the "submit" button until it went through. It went through alright. I wasn't trying to be an ass.

Thats cool man, happened to all of us.

 

[Groomz]

MBC's have a tendancy to fluctuate boost based on outside temp and air conditions. I know of a few people who go EBC and their boost creep goes away, but I'm not sure why. I know for sure that an external wastegate can eliminate boost creep, but boost control is about how well a wastegate can divert exhaust gases away from the turbine and out the exhaust. You'll need a bigger wastegate to run a lower boost on a bigger turbo. Want perfect boost control? Get a Tial 46mm external wastegate on a gated exhaust manifold. Flapper internal wastegates are not as efficient at disposing of exhaust gas pressure as well as an external wastegate simply due to the fact that an external wastegate has a better design and straighter access to the exhaust pressure. Boost creep can be caused by alot of things, so you'll have to work with your own car to figure out the best solution, there is no universal fix for creep other than a full on external wastegate.

 

[FASTSPOOLINGST]

If you already have a downpipe, don't order a new one, all you have to do is take it to a muffler shop or do this yourself if u have your own pneumatic cutter or something similar, even a dremel, a welder and vehicle lift.

1. first cut your pipe at the forward weld at the flex section.

2. unbolt the two nuts on the downpipe flange and remove the pipe u just cut.

3. cut off the current flange on your pipe at the weld.

4. stick the new flange up on the O2 housing and put the nuts on it just hand tight.

5. now place the same piece of pipe up to the flange and to the flex point.

6. Tac weld the flange to the pipe

7. remove the flange nuts and pull the pipe back down and put a nice weld on the entire flange.

8. put pipe back up and nuts back on flange hand tight.

9. match pipe up to flex point. place a decent weld on the bottom half of the pipe, then remove the nuts once more from the flange.

10. bend the pipe downward and place the remaining weld on the top of the flex section of the pipe.

11. put flange back up and tighten nuts, torque to specs and wallah, you are done. and it only saved you 200 dollars at least.

I had my local muffler guy do all of this for me, it took around 20 minutes and it was 75.00 dollars out the door.

Be smart and put your money somewhere else instead of a new downpipe use the one u have already.

By the way the ported evo iii O2 housing i have is a hell of a lot bigger then a ported stock 2g O2 housing.

Peace

 

[madracer247@aol]

hey do you got pics??

 

[Travis_GST]

Im waiting on a email response from SBR about this issue......So putting the bigger flapper on there will DEFINTELY solve the problem or what?

 

[FASTSPOOLINGST]

the flapper mod will always help with boost creep. porting the turbo and opening up your O2 and exhaust will help as well. I didn't check your mods so i don't know what u have, but these will help.

I don't have pics of the actual procedure being done, but i can get you a pic of my downpipe and what it looks like now if you want just say and i'll get em to you on this thread, i have to take my car to the local hobby shop and put it on a lift and snap some pics.

Later guys