Engine Rotate harder than Normal ** Urgent **

[ali_viento]

Hi,

i want to talk about the problem that occured on fresh rebuilt 1g 6 bolt engine that the bottom end included : JE pistons , Manley Rods , ACL race bearings , OEM oil pump , OEM water pump, BSE kit , Polished balanced Crank , use torque plate , adjusted the rings gaps , plastigauged the bearings and everything in spec and for head : ARP head studs , Cometic MLS , Supertech dual valve springs , SS valves , Bronze guides , fully ported & polished , FP2x cams , fidanza cam gears , 3g lifters , complete OEM timing components .
Now let me explain about the problem that i found on 400 miles after start up that engine make a noise from timing cover and valves sides that seems engine rotating harder than normal and revving also hard after 3000 rpms i must mention that checked the timing belt adjstment more than 3 times and auto tensioner gap adjusted really fine like tons of timing belt that ive ever changed . plus i checked the oil pump and its rotated freely and also crankshaft rotated normally and the compression test on all 4 cylinders was around 145 psi dry and 180 psi wet but i doubt on the valve springs pressure that maybe they needs the shimming or maybe FP2x isnt good cams for 2.0L engine and they are better for strocker engine .
is it possible the valves bent and i still have a good compression on chambers !?

The oil pressure from start up around 70 psi and with fully warmed up around 28 psi but i already ported the releif valve . you means my clutch kit and transmission , yeah the clutch kit is brand new ACT2900 and transmission rotating normal when i wanted to install but i felt the vibration from over 100 km/h speed that i thought maybe comes from driveshaft or even rear diff .
when i removed the oil for first time there is not shaving like a tiny peace of alum. but maybe a small metalic gold or silver color came out ( i mean its not the fully dark oil ).

Another things happened after 200 miles that when i wanted to retorque the ARP head studs then i decided to check the timing belt ,auto tensioner , oil pump and i found the oil pump rotate so hard and i decided to remove the oil pump to check the gears then i found some shavings around the bigger shaft housing ( i heard that sometimes it happened with dual valve springs and stubby shaft from BSE kit ) and i changed the gears and front case and assembled everything ( i thought that sound and tight timing belt comes from bad oil pump ) but again after i started the engine all the previous sounds still there and it seems when the motor warmed up then the timing belt comes really tight and its in stretch and i found its the reason that my previous oil pump damaged . but now like i said to you i really doubt on the pistons and wall clearance since i checked all of them with machine shop and i got .12 clearance between the pistons and wall . plus i regap the 1st rings to .019 and the 2nd rings to .021 that i think its good enough.

plus i remember that my pistons diameters exactly .500" up from the bottom of skirt were about 85.40 mm when i measured with micrometer and when we add .12 mm to them then our finished bore was 85.52mm . i think we did the right works !!??

Is this problem may cause the bad main caps or tight clearance on main caps ? when i plastigauged the main caps it comes to me its tighter than all engine that ive rebuilt but since its in spec , i didnt care about it . it means the values around .035 mm and .04 mm ( standard values : .02mm - .05mm - .1mm max ) but the 4 engines that i already rebuilt have .07mm clearance and all of them works perfect after that even with thick oil. since the crank size was STD polished balanced and manley H beam rods brand new then i couldnt think the problem backs to the wrong clearances on rods caps plus i plastigauged the rod caps and they are just fine too . By the way just one matter is strange for me that Heat cycle can cause the bearings expands and harder the crankshaft rotation !? i read somewhere that Heat tighter the clearances ...

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Finally , i removed the engine and put it on the stand for disassembly , then remove the head and i find some scuffs on front and rear of cylinder walls but i dont know how bad is it for engine after only 400 mile !? you cant feel it with nail. maybe it comes from piston slap but i didnt hear any slaps when engine works . i used the torque plate and gapped the rings .019 and .021 and got the .0047" piston wall clearnce that i know its should be ok for JE pistos .

And i also tested the valves and non of them bent . but is it possible this scuffs cause from problem on crank that drag the
engine ?! something like tight main caps .

plus there is some oil on the top of pistons and also behind the valves like you can see and also oil comes to the intake manifold thats weird since i removed PCV system and no line comes to intake manifold from valve cover and just installed catch can . is it cause from bad rings or that scuffs let the oil comes up ?! i cant doubt on valve stem seals since they are brand new.

please let me know what else you need to diagnosis this problem together ,im ready to get any pics or movies from side to side of engine .

Thanks Again

 

[JacksonAuto]

You've got quite a few little quirks causing your troubles. The most obvious is the hone job. It is wrong wrong wrong. This is without a doubt contributing to the oil you're seeing on the pistons. What is your piston-to-wall clearance? If the engine is tighter when it warms up, that means there is something that is too tight. Could be the bearing clearances, could be tight piston-to-wall.

Who did the machine work and assembly?

 

[ali_viento]

You've got quite a few little quirks causing your troubles. The most obvious is the hone job. It is wrong wrong wrong. This is without a doubt contributing to the oil you're seeing on the pistons. What is your piston-to-wall clearance? If the engine is tighter when it warms up, that means there is something that is too tight. Could be the bearing clearances, could be tight piston-to-wall.

Who did the machine work and assembly?

Oh God , Since im living in Asia Duabi right now and we dont have access to professional machine shop like yours then i dont know what should i do but i bought the torque plate from JMF and used it on this block and also mention them more than 10 times to add .0047" ptw clearance and lend them my own dial bore gauge and micrometer to everything comes line up

And what should i do for pistons and rings now ? needs to polish the cylinder wall or use the new rings ? it means rings didnt works properly and its the cause of 100% leakage on test ? and also its the reason for tight timing belt when engine warmed up yeah ?! piston touch the cylinder walls ans made that scuffs or rings end gap didnt enough and made that scuffs !?


Thanks alot JAM for Fast reply

 

[JacksonAuto]

Well the problem is the angle and roughness of the crosshatch pattern. It will not allow the rings to seal.

The damage to the bearings looks to be from contamination. Dirt got into the engine. The mating surfaces of the main caps look horrible as well, I'd be willing to bet that the align bore is out of spec.

 

[ali_viento]

Well the problem is the angle and roughness of the crosshatch pattern. It will not allow the rings to seal.

The damage to the bearings looks to be from contamination. Dirt got into the engine. The mating surfaces of the main caps look horrible as well, I'd be willing to bet that the align bore is out of spec.

Now it means that scuffs on the cylinder wall back to the clearance problem on main caps ? and now just for now i should do anything for cylinder wall like polishing or something els ?! or i can run it and just replace the rings ?! you know i need to run this engine as soon as possible but FOR SURE i will go to order full rebuilt engine from US in future .

Thanks Again

 

[JacksonAuto]

New rings wont help. That block needs to be honed properly at the very least. With the methods mentioned, I would bet good money that the cylinders aren't round. I don't mean any offense but you've got a mess.

 

[ali_viento]

New rings wont help. That block needs to be honed properly at the very least. With the methods mentioned, I would bet good money that the cylinders aren't round. I don't mean any offense but you've got a mess.

I just used the torque plate and then is it possible the machine shop cant adjust their machine ?! plus if we try to honed the block then our spec for ptw will go higher ( more than .0047 that i already got ) , is it possible or need the new block for this process ?!

Thanks

 

[JacksonAuto]

There are more parts to the puzzle than just using a torque plate. What kind of honing machine is being used? Or is it a ball hone in a drill? Wont necessarily need a new block but oversized pistons instead.

 

[ali_viento]

There are more parts to the puzzle than just using a torque plate. What kind of honing machine is being used? Or is it a ball hone in a drill? Wont necessarily need a new block but oversized pistons instead.

yeah used the honing machine but i cant remember the name of that Danish honing machine but im sure thats made in denmark .

whats the reason the wears occured in the middle of cylinder walls ?

Thanks

 

[JacksonAuto]

More than likely dirt. When the piston "rocks" in the bore, the clearance get's taken up and the dirt gets squeezed between the skirt and the cylinder wall. That's why you'll see more wear in the bore as opposed to all the way up and down. It also looks like there were some burrs left on the piston rings which caused the long, straight scratches which travel nearly the full length of the cylinder.

 

[ali_viento]

More than likely dirt. When the piston "rocks" in the bore, the clearance get's taken up and the dirt gets squeezed between the skirt and the cylinder wall. That's why you'll see more wear in the bore as opposed to all the way up and down. It also looks like there were some burrs left on the piston rings which caused the long, straight scratches which travel nearly the full length of the cylinder.

Then it means my ptw clearance is correct ?! plus today i removed the pistons and checked the piston skirts and there is some tiny scratchs but not really bad that we want to forget this pistons ( you can check them on pics ) . plus i think its maybe the problem on bearings since all of them have scratchs ( tight clearance ) that "Drag" the engine after warmed up !?