Engine Replacment Problems

[mikelv]

Okay all, I'm going to try and explain this as best as possible. I know no matter what, I will ultimately will be the one who fixes this problem, but I'm looking for productive insight, because I am running out of answers, and becoming discouraged. I am looking for some insight before I rip this whole project apart and start from square one.

Ok, I have done a complete 91 6-Bolt Swap. I have a fully built Longblock, High Flow Fuel System, new Turbo, and new Transmission. Basically, everything is bran new. I have a 95 E-Prom ECU w/ DSMLink. 3" GM MAF with Translator, with all supporting mods.


Here is the issue. The car will not start, or hold idle on it's own. The only way the car will start and stay running is if I give it throttle, and hold it tight. If I let off, it dies. And when the car is running, is sounds horrible.

I had suspected vacuum leaks, or timing issues. Now some questions.

I eliminated all emissions devices, and I'm not exactly sure if I did this correctly. I have an EGR block off plate, and have just completely unplugged the two solenoids that mount to the fire wall above the intake manifold. The purge control solenoid valve and the exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) control solenoid. I completely removed the canister, and left the vapor line coming from the fuel tank open in the compartment. (towards the ground)
There is another rubber hose coming from the fire wall, higher up by the battery, that I do not know where is goes. From there, all I did was block off all four ports to the 91 TB. What is wrong here, and will it just be best to re-connect the entire system. (spare me your green peace hazard comments please) Either way, how could these lines play an impact. I mean I can't even get the car to turn over without at least connecting these solenoids.

Next, how would I know timing is off or play a factor? Ignition Timing? The plug wires are correctly reversed as required. The timing marks are lined up on the Cams and Crank, and #1 is TDC. Compression is 175 across the board, so nothing is bent. Mechanically, the timing is on, and nothing is damaged.

DSMLink and MAFT.....I have set the base settings for 450's in the MAFT, and it is wired correctly. DSMLink is all standard settings for a 2G ECU. -57% Global Setting which is required for 1050cc injectors. (450/1050 - 1.0 = x - 1.0 = -57% )

APFR is set lower than 2G Base of 43 psi. Car was extremely rich, and things just weren't right.

CAS and Crank Sensor is correct....I have the plug & play harness, the 1G CAS is hooked to the 2G Crank Sensor, and the blue wire is spliced from the harness to the 2G Cam angle sensor, the rest of the sensor is unplugged.

All injector plugs are correct, the ignition is correct, A/C has been removed so the connector is unplugged, the ignition coil plug is correct, the TPS, and ISC is correct. The starter is correct and functional, as well as transmission sensors. Speed and Reverse I think. O2 is plugged in. MDP sensor is plugged in and there is no vacuum to it. (which I've been told does not matter) The temp sensors connected to the water elbow are connected. Oil Filter housing is connections are good, power steering, and alternator.


Ground wires are connected, and everything I can see is connected. The person who built the motor installed the 1G CAS, and it is correct. Also, the coil pack and it is correct. The motor will not run on it's own.

I have run out of options. I have a few questions.

What have I missed? Wiring?
There is one plug close to the front of the transmission. It is orange/black and comes out from where the MAS wires come from. I can't find where it goes?

Emissions wiring and vacuum? How can this effect it. As far as vacuum to the engine and other parts nothing is missing. Brake Cylinder line from the back of the intake manifold is good, and the lines to the fuel regulator solenoids, and BOV are good. The PCV valve is there, and that’s it. What am I missing all?

I will have pictures, and video to help walk through all of this. Maybe it'll help but here is a start. If anyone could help, I would be more than thankful!!!!


Please help me out here, I'm getting pretty discouraged.

These are the only things left I can think of.

Fuel Pump and related wiring components: I have not checked this because I know I have fuel, trust me on that. Pressure is there and fuel is being delivered.

I have spark, I tested the plug and arc, it is there. I don't know if it's not enough, but it is present. The injectors and bran new O2 sensors were EXTREMELY black due to rich fuel mixture.

Air is my only question and function of the TB. Vacuum or related components?

The last thing is electronics. I have a SAFC and ITC, both wire properly. Only thing left to do is follow the wires and see if they're causing a problem with ignition. Both are set at base settings, and not used. I just haven't removed them since purchasing DSMLink.

Please, don't tell me to read the VFAQ's. I've been reading them for days, and still are. I know the answers are out there, and I'm searching properly. I know all that. But I will post a video walk through of the entire system, and see if a fresh pair of eyes can help. Thanks to all who are willing to help!

 

[Quasimondo]

Does it stay running once the engine has fully warmed up?

Have you tried adjusting the idle screw on the throttle body?

Spark timing is more than just making sure the cams and crank line up, you'll have to make sure the base timing is set for 5* BTDC (not sure how to do that since I don't own a 2G and I've never done a 6-bolt swap), maybe somebody who's done this swap will chime in on how to do timing on a swap.

 

[Spoolin98]

I just got done doing the swap. I had the same problem with my car not wanting to stay running once it started, as soon as I let off the gas it would just shut off. Turned out to be the Biss screw on the TB, I adjusted it and the car ran perfect.

As for the emissions, I removed mine too. I did everything the same as you, but I left the plugs connected. You said you cant get the car to turn over with the plugs disconnected so leave them connected. Im not sure about the car running horrible while you hold the gas down, that shouldnt be. Could just be the base timing? Where is the CAS set at right now? Did you put it directly in the middle? If not, you should until you can get it idling and set the base timing.

If you got the car to run, even if only by holding the gas down, then everything is plugged in that should be. Rule that stuff out.

I would set the fuel pressure at 43.5psi where it should be whether your running rich or not. Thats what the ECU is expecting it to be at.

If your suspecting leaks, then do a boost leak test! This is a must! Do it and get back to us.

As for setting the base timing, you need to get the car to idle properly first. Try adjusting the biss screw and let us know what happens. Once you get it to idle, then you can use DSMlink to ground out the timing and adjust the CAS to 5* BTDC with a timing light. DSMlink is the only way to ground the timing on a 2g, there isnt a grounding plug like on the 1g's.

 

[numlock666]

Possibly CAS 180* out. As far as base timing goes it should run if you have it about mid adjustment, wont be 5* but it will run. We know you have compression, feul and spark. Only 2 of those have variables, fuel (how much) and spark (timing). If you have your stock injectors try that. Only reason that it leads me to believe you have too much fuel is that with it WOT you actually get enough air to make a combustable mixture. Thats why it runs, and when you let off a little it dies. Also the MAFT is horrible, try your stock MAS for now, because on the intructions it says to 0 everything out on stock injectors, and with that mine ran extremely rich. Also for that plug near the stock MAS, I think thats the reverse light switch, plugs into the tranny, I need to check on my car.

 

[mikelv]

I just got done doing the swap. I had the same problem with my car not wanting to stay running once it started, as soon as I let off the gas it would just shut off. Turned out to be the Biss screw on the TB, I adjusted it and the car ran perfect.

As for the emissions, I removed mine too. I did everything the same as you, but I left the plugs connected. You said you cant get the car to turn over with the plugs disconnected so leave them connected. Im not sure about the car running horrible while you hold the gas down, that shouldnt be. Could just be the base timing? Where is the CAS set at right now? Did you put it directly in the middle? If not, you should until you can get it idling and set the base timing.

If you got the car to run, even if only by holding the gas down, then everything is plugged in that should be. Rule that stuff out.

I would set the fuel pressure at 43.5psi where it should be whether your running rich or not. Thats what the ECU is expecting it to be at.

If your suspecting leaks, then do a boost leak test! This is a must! Do it and get back to us.

As for setting the base timing, you need to get the car to idle properly first. Try adjusting the biss screw and let us know what happens. Once you get it to idle, then you can use DSMlink to ground out the timing and adjust the CAS to 5* BTDC with a timing light. DSMlink is the only way to ground the timing on a 2g, there isnt a grounding plug like on the 1g's.

Thank you for the reply, and assistance.
I've attempted to adjust the Base Idle Set Screw, and basically what ended up happening was the car would not idle below 2000 RPM, still sounded horrible. When I would let off, the car would just die.

It has to be ignition timing or something to that effect.

The main reason I didn’t assume this right off was the motor was built with the CAS already installed, as well as the coil pack. As far as I know, this was done correctly. I assumed I did something incorrect before a very reputable shop. I will ensure to check this.

I wasn’t necessarily suspecting leaks, but I was wondering if there is something I didn’t mentioned, just mistakenly disconnected.

Also, as far as the emissions devices, would leaving the vacuum ports disconnected, in turn cause leaks???? Or just maybe something I missed something? Either way, I will do a leak test to ensure. Thanks.

 

[mikelv]

Possibly CAS 180* out. As far as base timing goes it should run if you have it about mid adjustment, wont be 5* but it will run. We know you have compression, feul and spark. Only 2 of those have variables, fuel (how much) and spark (timing). If you have your stock injectors try that. Only reason that it leads me to believe you have too much fuel is that with it WOT you actually get enough air to make a combustable mixture. Thats why it runs, and when you let off a little it dies. Also the MAFT is horrible, try your stock MAS for now, because on the intructions it says to 0 everything out on stock injectors, and with that mine ran extremely rich. Also for that plug near the stock MAS, I think thats the reverse light switch, plugs into the tranny, I need to check on my car.

Thanks for the input.

I was thinking car was 180* out as well. So, what needs to be done to fix that, or how could I tell on the CAS? I will look up the VFAQ's. I have set the timing belt #1 TDC, the wires are 2341 (I think that’s reversed off the top of my head, I know it’s correct on the car)….and the Link is set to invert CAS. I have not even messed with the CAS because as aforementioned, it was already preinstalled. But even if that was 180* out, couldn’t I just deselect the Invert CAS option? If so, I did try that.

Regarding the GM MAF & Translator, initially I set this darn thing up for the 1050 injectors. Well, if you look at the settings chart, it doesn’t even go that high!!! Stupid me, not realizing that you need to base set this thing because of DSMLink….lets just say I learned the hard way.
Well after that, there was a butt-load of fuel in the cylinders, the plugs were blacker than space, and all O2’s had to be replaced. Cleaned the plugs, reset the MAFT, and started over. Okay, if I take out the injectors, and GM MAS, the car should lean out enough to run. However, if I plan to run this stuff anyway, so I would like to be able to get stuff right. If this solved the problem, what would I do to run the MAFT, or larger injectors. Just tuning?
Anyway, I agree with you regarding Richness. Although I do not have to have the car WOT to stay running. Just the car will not idle on it’s own. Before, when the MAFT and DSMLink settings were off, yes, I had to go WOT to even hold revolutions. Now, it’ll hold with some gas, but just not idle.

Overall, I need to check the CAS for base timing? If timing is off a little, would it run REALLY bad? And, if it was 180* out., it would run, just run horrible sounding? And before any of that, don’t I need to get the car to idle. I can't set base timing without idle? But I can reset it to not be 180* out? Meaning, that the car will not idle because it IS 180* out??
If I run the stock MAS again, where would I put it? I am running a non- recirculating BOV now, (Tial 50mm) so I have installed the GM MAF after the BOV. I need to do the same thing with the stock MAS correct?



Thanks guys! This is a great start, I’ll keep you posted!
Oh, and this sucks, I’m renting space at a shop and the hours are horrible! Heck if it was up to me, I wouldn’t ever leave!!! Lol

 

[Spoolin98]

DO NOT assume that a shop did things correctly, trust me on that one!

First off, plug off any vacumm ports, and do a boost leak test.

I HIGHLY doubt its your coilpack, unless 2 cylinders arent firing, but you said your getting spark. Rule that out.

Pull the CAS out and make sure the notch in the part that spins is facing the front of the car. Go here
http://www.magnusmotorsports.com/tech/1gina2g.pdf and look at page nine to see what I mean. If its correct than you can rule that out. If not, fix it and keep the "invert cas" option on in DSMlink. Once you put the CAS back in, put it directly in the middle of the range of motion.

You must rule things out one by one instead of asking what will happen if this is wrong or what will happen if that is wrong. Check it and make sure, that way you KNOW its not your problem and you can rule it out.

I personally dont think you need to run the stock MAS, just find your problem and fix it. The GM-MAF is not your problem. Plenty of people run that setup without the problem your having, including myself.

Do these things and check back with us. Also, some pictures could be handy.

 

[mikelv]

Yeah, I know man, your right. I just get fustrated, and want to keep going, you know? I've put a lot of time into this. I will check those things, one at a time, and let you know.

I am actually putting together a small series of videos, and walking through the whole process, I'm sure that will help. Thanks.

I have a feeling the CAS is off. And now it sucks, the shop is closed on SUN, MON. I won't be able to get in there till TUES!

Thanks again!

 

[Spoolin98]

Your welcome, keep us updated.