engine rebuild questions

[drivemusicnow]

I have a 93 gsx with 155k on it. I want to get the most out of it with 2000$ of parts, however before I start, I was thinking maybe a basic engine rebuild would be in order. I am doing this partly to learn, and partly so that I won't hate myself later for not doing it. I think i could put an extra 500$ into the rebuild, with an extra 100$ for a full timing belt replacement/balance shaft eliminator. So basically 500$ just for the typical rebuild items.

Here are some questions I have:

With an end goal of only about 350awhp what does/doesn't need to be replaced when i have the block apart?

Would I be better off piecing a kit together myself, or buying the topline one for 320$?

Am I right to think that with my budget of 500$, the 320$ kit plus machining costs will probably meet/excede it?

Is there anything else that would be worth me begging on the street for spare change to afford?

I haven't done a compression check yet, but that will be done soon. if the compression checks out should i just skip this and put the 500$ into the "shit happens" fund? (i'm guessing that it won't be up to par though)

Edit: I will be doing all the work myself, hence learning experience.. I do have a fair amount of experience in and around cars, and feel confident in my competency to complete such a rebuild. plus i'll have good beer and good friends

 

[huafist]

Topline should be fine with what you're planning on making. Not sure what comes in the kit though?

If I were going to go through all that trouble, I'd rebuild the bottom end regardless of what compression I had - new & shiney is always better than beat up & old, especially when you're planning on making some power. Just make sure you get a repair manual (if you haven't already) and READ READ READ. Read it at least 3 times before attempting it.

 

[cait sith]

350whp? I'd worry more about your tranny and center diff than your engine with that amount of mileage.

 

[drivemusicnow]

http://importperformanceparts.net/ is the link to the site i'm seeing the topline kit for.. too bad they're cheap and don't have seperate addresses for all the different "pages" on their website...

Heres what they include: Complete gasket set, set of pistons and rings, main bearings, rod bearings, thrust washers, timing belt, balance shaft bearings, and a set of expansion plugs
Oil pump add 140$
Toga HP bearings, 20$ for main, 20$ for rod
190$ for toga oil pump

no charge over standard for 20 or 40 over rings and pistons, or 10, 20, or 30 over bearings


Something else i hadn't thought about, should i bore it .020 over? What does this help with? (how much more displacement? how much does an average machine shop charge for this?

Trannys fine, shifts great... I'd be replacing the clutch when i start to modify it... but as of now, I haven't planned on it. Do you think I should? I have rebuilt a couple manual transmissions, however only for "learning how they work" , and they were on highway transmissions. I can't think of anything I'd be able to do until it failed though.

 

[drivemusicnow]

bump to get some help.. especially to answer some of my original questions

 

[anconover]

320$ kit + machining/assembly etc will run over 500$ probly. Not much tho. And IMO, if your compression is fine, done touch the motor. Im making 350whp now approx, doing low 12's, high 11's on pump. Stock motor is plenty strong enough to make that kind of power all day long.

 

[DSMatMSU]

i just did a rebuild.... i spent about 500 at the machine shop.... bore block 20 over, aligne hone crank, heat tested and cleaned, and the deck was surfaced, balanced everything, and machined my rods(1g big rods) for the 2g pistons, polished crank....
500 at the machine shop
250 for rings at pistons (i think)
i had allready rebuilt the head, spent 200 bucks, grinding the valves and seats.... revised lifters, re-surfaced the head...
i picked up some turbo cams from a 92 for 40 dollars (both)
then arp hardware all over 200 bucks
oem head gasket (get a whole engine kit that includes this)
clevite bearings - 120 bucks
i put everything together myself (first time)

so prob 1200 - 1500 with all the misc crap like a water pump, timing pulleys, tensionar, t-belt (mine all had low miles on them, so i just re-used it) the bs eliminator, random loc-tite, engine assembly lube, lots of brakeclean, oil... etc. etc.

what pistons? 2g vs. a forged set.... does your head need work? stock rods machined for the pistons? or get an aftermarket??

my goal is right around yours at 350..... 2g pistons, 1g rods, bascily stock head, and i have an evo 3 16g turbo.... i just recently got it running, so i dont have any numbers or track times... but through all my searching i found it to be a pretty good 'modest' set-up....

i would say i did this on the lower budget side too...
hope that helps.... im sure you could get by with the stock bottom end to get 350.... but i just couldnt stand replacing everything with the same parts.... so might as well upgrade while your there...

 

[drivemusicnow]

i just did a rebuild.... i spent about 500 at the machine shop.... bore block 20 over, aligne hone crank, heat tested and cleaned, and the deck was surfaced, balanced everything, and machined my rods(1g big rods) for the 2g pistons, polished crank....
500 at the machine shop
250 for rings at pistons (i think)
i had allready rebuilt the head, spent 200 bucks, grinding the valves and seats.... revised lifters, re-surfaced the head...
i picked up some turbo cams from a 92 for 40 dollars (both)
then arp hardware all over 200 bucks
oem head gasket (get a whole engine kit that includes this)
clevite bearings - 120 bucks
i put everything together myself (first time)

so prob 1200 - 1500 with all the misc crap like a water pump, timing pulleys, tensionar, t-belt (mine all had low miles on them, so i just re-used it) the bs eliminator, random loc-tite, engine assembly lube, lots of brakeclean, oil... etc. etc.

what pistons? 2g vs. a forged set.... does your head need work? stock rods machined for the pistons? or get an aftermarket??

my goal is right around yours at 350..... 2g pistons, 1g rods, bascily stock head, and i have an evo 3 16g turbo.... i just recently got it running, so i dont have any numbers or track times... but through all my searching i found it to be a pretty good 'modest' set-up....

i would say i did this on the lower budget side too...
hope that helps.... im sure you could get by with the stock bottom end to get 350.... but i just couldnt stand replacing everything with the same parts.... so might as well upgrade while your there...

Thanks for the info!

This isn't my daily driver, and therefor reliability isn't nearly as big of an issue... avoiding catastrophic faliures however is.
I'm planning on using the T04b v-trim turbo, so fairly similar. I was just going to go with 20 over "stock" pistons that come with the kit.. i was thinking about going with scat rods POSSIBLY... depends on the money i have at the time, and how much they cost I really am doing this as a kinda budget racer/track car.

do you think the 4 layer mitsu headgasket is worht the extra money?

The head only has like 60k miles on it... but we'll see how it checks out.
I think i might go with ARP main studs, however i haven't decided for sure yet... i will if any of the stock ones have stretched.
I'm probably going to do much less of the things you "should" do and more just the stuff that i NEED to do. not the best approach i know, but due to this just being a fun progect... i think i'll try to get by

 

[DSMatMSU]

well, if its not a DD... im just guessing here, feel free to correct.... you 'may' be able to just hone the cyl walls if they are still in good shape, and use the same bore piston??? right?
the stock mains should be plenty, plus some say they center the bearing caps better than the arps... (prevent crank walk, even on 6bolt)
rod bolts wouldnt hurt either way, they arent expensive....
i would just use an OEM gasket... your not going to be pushing that much boost... but definately get ARP head studs....
you could just use your stock rods, they are the strongest of the generations, get them machined to fit... then get you some stock 2g pistons.... really cheap new.... like 40 bucks a piston.... plus a ring set.... or just go with that kit your looking at (I havnt checked it out yet)

i guess the main thing here is finding someone who will machine the rods at a good price, cuz if its going to cost you the same as a new set, then... well, that decision is obvious

 

[drivemusicnow]

well, if its not a DD... im just guessing here, feel free to correct.... you 'may' be able to just hone the cyl walls if they are still in good shape, and use the same bore piston??? right?
the stock mains should be plenty, plus some say they center the bearing caps better than the arps... (prevent crank walk, even on 6bolt)
rod bolts wouldnt hurt either way, they arent expensive....
i would just use an OEM gasket... your not going to be pushing that much boost... but definately get ARP head studs....
you could just use your stock rods, they are the strongest of the generations, get them machined to fit... then get you some stock 2g pistons.... really cheap new.... like 40 bucks a piston.... plus a ring set.... or just go with that kit your looking at (I havnt checked it out yet)

i guess the main thing here is finding someone who will machine the rods at a good price, cuz if its going to cost you the same as a new set, then... well, that decision is obvious

Hehe now you're in my price range, heh... I don't have a 6 bolt, its a 93, so it would be a 7 bolt (haven't actually checked...) so i have neither decent C/R pistons nor decent rods.. but i do have the decent axle.
The kit comes with pistons (obviously nothing to great.. not even sure the c/r will have to check) depending on what shape its in i might just polish things up a bit and put them back in...
i mean, i don't plan on going over 20 psi very often if ever.
Did you do the balance shaft removal on your car?

 

[DSMatMSU]

yea i did, pretty simple...
just dont forget to put loc-tite on the bolt that holds the little stubby shaft in (yea... mine fell out shorrtly after i started the car, oil pump was screaming)
then use JB weld to plug up the front BS hole.... no biggie... there should be a vfaq for it, to make it even easier than it allready is.... esp with the motor out....

i dont notice any extra vibration, feels pretty smooth to me...

 

[anconover]

If your going to be using 'stock' pistons dont bother with aftermarket rods IMO. Also, dont use ARP main hardware, or ARP rod hardware on stock parts. Theyre not necessary, no one has yet found the max HP that stock mains can withstand so its ALOT. Theyll just add to the cost of machining by needed to have the mains align honed etc because they distory the mains causing them to not be perfectly round if not honed. = bearing failure.

You honestly probly dont even need a rebuild if the car is running fine.