engine doesn't sound healthy after timing adjustment

[tommiman]

I had a bit of an idle surge. I thought it might be the timing. I check it and the found the timing was off. When the oil pump and crankshaft sprockets are alighned one camshaft would be up a tooth from the aligned position and the other down a tooth from the aligned position. I lined everything up perfectly. When I started her up the engine doesn't sound as smooth as before.

I just took everything apart again. The timing is still correct.

What is causing this?

Should I revert back to the old timing?

 

[luv2rallye]

Do you have the oil pump sprocket on the correct 360 degree revolution for proper balance shaft phase?

 

[oddrob]

Did you check the timing with a timing light?

 

[tommiman]

Do you have the oil pump sprocket on the correct 360 degree revolution for proper balance shaft phase?

I never touched the smaller timiing belt. Just dealing with the main one. I only moved the oil pump sproket by a tooth.

 

[tommiman]

It almost sounds like the car is backfiring just a little bit.

F@#$ I wish I didn't touch it.

 

[luv2rallye]

The oil pump sprocket is not the one with the smaller B belt (that's the front balance shaft). It is the other small sprocket the TB goes around. It must be in the proper revolution to make the rear balance shaft (which runs off it) be in phase. The rear balance shaft runs at half the speed of the oil pump sprocket so every revolution of the oil pump sprocket the rear balance shaft goes in and out of phase. Incorrect phase results in engine vibration. See step 24 of http://www.vfaq.com/mods/timingbelt-2G.html.. If vibration is not your problem then check timing (both ignition and TB).

 

[tommiman]

The timing was more or less fine before I adjusted the belt. I only moved the oil pump sproket about a tooth. So it should be at the proper revolution.


The crankshaft timing mark is the one I'm not sure about. Since I don't have a digital camera I drew the following miserable diagram of the cranshaft timing mark that I see in my car.

I currently have it set up like pic 1 with the dash aligned with the middle of the V. Is this right or should it be to the left of the V like pic 2 or to the right like pic 3?

Also, is it safe to run the car without any drive belts attached for a few seconds after the timing belt has been installed just to make sure timing is ok? I was thinking of just putting the engine mount back on and running the car with two jackstands underneath it in the front.

 

[luv2rallye]

pic 1 and yes it's ok. Better check your ignition timing.

 

[tommiman]

I just realized that I didn't remove the spark plugs and disconnect the ignition coil pack connector.

Oops.

Could that cause a problem?

 

[tommiman]

What's checking the timing with a light going to help me? I heard that's not adjustable on 2gs.

 

[luv2rallye]

Ignition base timing: http://www.plymouthlaser.com/timin.htm

 

[tommiman]

Iginition Base Timing in not adjustable on a 2g.

 

[DSM90AWD]

Did you make sure to re-check all the timing marks after the T-Belt was installed, properly tensioned and turned 6 revolutions to take up all slack?

When you removed the belt on the Oil Pump/ Rear Balance Shaft pulley did you make sure to do the screwdriver trick to make sure it is in phase? 180 Degrees off on the BS will make a bad rumbling sound from Idle - 4K.

 

[tommiman]

Did you make sure to re-check all the timing marks after the T-Belt was installed, properly tensioned and turned 6 revolutions to take up all slack?

When you removed the belt on the Oil Pump/ Rear Balance Shaft pulley did you make sure to do the screwdriver trick to make sure it is in phase? 180 Degrees off on the BS will make a bad rumbling sound from Idle - 4K.

Yup just checked all that. Everything mentioned above is ok.

 

[luv2rallye]

Iginition Base Timing in not adjustable on a 2g.

Sorry, I just found that out myself. Well even though it's not adjustable it might be comfortable to check the ignition timing with a timing light anyway.

 

[tommiman]

Just tore everything apart again. Timing markings still line up perfectly. Screwdriver test with cyl 1 TDC checked out ok. I'm scratching my head. WTF? Also did a compression test. All cylinders are approx. 190. I'm stumpped.

 

[tommiman]

I've just re-did the timing belt. The engine isn't running as smoothly as it did before I started all of this.

 

[luv2rallye]

Suggestion if not done already: I recommend pulling the plugs and with them all still connected and their ground casing held against the block (or connected by a wire), have someone crank the engine and examine the spark on each to see if it is strong and same as the others.

If that ok, I suggest looking for a vacuum leak. Did one of the vacuum hoses fall off or forgotten to be put back on? I know I had to disconnect hoses just to get room to remove the A/C adj pulley on my 2g and it ran like crap when I forgot to put it back on.

 

[tommiman]

Plugs are ok. I also checked the whole ignition system as well as the crank and cam sensors. I'm guessing that it might simply be the relearn stage of the computer. I'll also check for pulled vac hoses.

 

[tommiman]

Well I just found out my timing is advanced although all my timing marks are perfectly aligned. WTF?

 

[luv2rallye]

You mean ignition timing or valve timing (intake or exhaust cam)? If valve timing read the note in step 33 of http://www.vfaq.com/mods/timingbelt-2G.html . Also you REALLY DO need a straight edge across those camshaft pulley marks to line them up correctly.

 

[tommiman]

haha... I took everything apart again... I was literally staring at the timing marks for half an hour until I realized the straight edge rule. I was off 2 teeth!!! This fixed everything. It idles and runs like new. Just glad I didn't bend any valves.

 

[luv2rallye]

Great!! Glad you got it fixed - congrats . (Believe me there are 1000's out there that don't take enough time to line up the marks or read step 33 seriously.)

 

[DSM90AWD]

Great!! Glad you got it fixed - congrats . (Believe me there are 1000's out there that don't take enough time to line up the marks or read step 33 seriously.)

Yea.. and I spent $500 at one of them (DSM Shop to boot) for the same outcome :thumbdown

Lucky for you was found quickly.. for me's been several years of crappy performance followed by $$$ of parts trying to fix it
Took me so long as I'd ruled out the T-Belt figuring a shop with an 8-sec Talon would know how to install a T-Belt

 

[tommiman]

One of us should make a video on how to properly change the timing belt. Then sell it to the garages so they would know how to do it properly. :laugh: