Engine died on high RPM shifting?

[Robotech]

So there I was. Driving my 1999 GSX which was built by another guy who on this forum is known as "phunny", tuned to 635whp, as I normally do in my normal circuit around the neighborhood. I was driving it down the street shifting between 5500-7000 which is normal for this car since with the FP black turbo its the normal power band for it. Car runs on E85.

Anyways, I drive through a part of town which is 30mph, get through it, throw it into second, rev it up to 7000 rpm, put in the clutch, shift to third and something goes wrong-- the engine just shuts off. So I'm only doing about 40mph, so I'm rolling, saying WTF? RPM is at 0. I was already pushing in the clutch so I turned the key, engine turns over, nothing. Still rollin, about 10mph so I put it in second and dropped the clutch and it sounded like the car started but the RPM said 0 still, so I rolled off to the side of the road and there she lay.

First thing I checked was the timing belt, which is fine and it wouldn't have turned over if I blew the belt anyways.
Car cranks over but never fires. The fuel system has a PSI gauge on it and it shows 40psi, so I have fuel when I crank the car over.

Seems like there is no power. I just plugged in a code reader and it didn't even turn on. Seems there is no power/programming to the ODB2 port when the ignition is turned on or off. The car had something else plugged into the ODB2 port, maybe the control for the ECMLink? don't know.

First, has anyone ever had this happen and do you have any thoughts as to WHY it happened? To me it seems like I'm getting nothing from the computer. Could I have magically cooked the computer while shifting at 7000 RPM? In a super built GSX are there any safetys that would shut off the car at 7000 rpms and then not allow it to reset and restart?

Is there any fuses or things to check in particular?

And this car used to be quite popular in the racing circuits and at the shootout, it was built by "phunny" but he won't answer phone calls and texts now for the last 6 months even though he said he would if I bought his car. But maybe some of you know this silver GSX.

Thank you in advance my friends. My heart is broken without my GSX.

 

[LV-DSM]

I doubt the RPM was responsible. Could be a lot of things on a race car, but most likely a fuse or loose connection. Is there a kill switch anywhere? If so, Check that, ECU connectors, break out your multimeter and start checking voltage and grounds from the battery back to the ECU. I'd say it sounds like your coil pack is unplugged because it's happened to me on a hard pull before, but if that were the case I think you would still have power at the ODB port. You'll find it. Most likely something simple.

 

[bmxfelon420]

I'd check your engine fuses (the one that has the two fuses tied together in the holder) Make sure those both look good. Also look at all the big ones to make sure none of them are obviously blown.

 

[Robotech]

I'll take a look at it when I have a minute. The guy who built the car relocated the fuses to insider of the fender so its a little bit of a project to get to them.

 

[Robotech]

by the way, where is the ECU on this car? I actually don't know where it is.

 

[SNAKE_15]

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[Robotech]

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awesome thank you! So this is under the dash accessible from the drivers side?

 

[Maes]

behind the radio. pull the side cover off that goes to the center console and you can access it.

 

[bo0st]

Since you have Link would you mind posting a log for us to look at?

 

[Robotech]

Since you have Link would you mind posting a log for us to look at?

Can you pull logs from Link? I did try my laptop with ECM Link and it connected, but I couldn't find out how to pull history. I didn't have the laptop connected at the time of the incident....

 

[Robotech]

So I did some troubleshooting last night on the car (finally had time). What I found was this: my laptop connects to the ECU through ECMlink and can download and change settings if needed. The lights on the dash indicate that the ECU is working as well. I checked and have spark. What i do not have is fuel! I turned over the car, pulled the plugs and they are dry as a bone. Pistons are dry too. No smell of enthanol at all.

So my question is this, what runs the injectors? Do they have their own fuse somewhere? I traced the wires, they go to the main harness and then back to the fuse box it seems. (no blown fuses) They are Dynamic 2200cc injectors but previously they worked fine. Its odd that they ALL don't work, so it has to be whatever controls them. Since they cycle I would assume that there is something that runs them?

Thank you for your help!
David

 

[C'LO]

Do you have fuel pressure? Could be a bad fuel pump?

 

[Robotech]

Do you have fuel pressure? Could be a bad fuel pump?

It has a mechanical fuel pressure guage inline and it says it has 40psi. So we have fuel pressure.

 

[C'LO]

Check the schematics and see if there is a fuse for the injectors would be the next step I believe

 

[bo0st]

Can you pull logs from Link? I did try my laptop with ECM Link and it connected, but I couldn't find out how to pull history. I didn't have the laptop connected at the time of the incident....

When you save the log, it creates a file. You upload that file here so we can take a look at the log.

 

[Robotech]

Check the schematics and see if there is a fuse for the injectors would be the next step I believe

I'm digging through the service manual. I bought the PDF off of ebay but I have to sift through 2000 pages to find which page has the schematics

 

[steve]

Check the schematics and see if there is a fuse for the injectors would be the next step I believe

No fuse for just the injectors, they get power from the MPI/Engine fuse via the injector resistor pack which with these high impedance injectors is/should be bypassed feeding power directly to the injectors. The other end of the injector coil goes to the ECU which pulls it's side low to fire the injector.

 

[Robotech]

No fuse for just the injectors, they get power from the MPI/Engine fuse via the injector resistor pack which with these high impedance injectors is/should be bypassed feeding power directly to the injectors. The other end of the injector coil goes to the ECU which pulls it's side low to fire the injector.

THats what I was afraid of. Where is the injector resistor pack normally located? I assume this car was built right and the injector pack was bypassed, which sadly means that if they aren't firing it could be the ECU injector control isn't working......
I found the page in the service manual, 13A-236 which basically says check a few voltages and if there isn't voltage, replace ECM.

Is it common for the injector control on the ECM to go? A buddy of mine in a neighboring town had his injector control go on the ECM. Its absolutely scary that I appear to have exactly the same issue as him.

 

[steve]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/2g-engine-bay-electrical-connections.298047/page-3#post-151542336

If you disconnect an injector plug you should see battery voltage on one pin and may see it on both due to the sense circuit in the ECU. Find out if the injector pack wiring was modified to eliminate the resistor pack, if it was bypassed with a plug that combines the 5 wires together, or if for some reason you still have a injector resistor pack.

It's not very common to loose the injector drivers on the ECU.

At this point a log from DSMLink would be helpful. This could be as simple as the TPS reading 100% which while starting will cause DSMLink to disable the injectors. Capture a few seconds doing nothing and then try to start it.

It also might be a good idea to try some starting fluid and see if it fires.

 

[Robotech]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/2g-engine-bay-electrical-connections.298047/page-3#post-151542336
At this point a log from DSMLink would be helpful. This could be as simple as the TPS reading 100% which while starting will cause DSMLink to disable the injectors. Capture a few seconds doing nothing and then try to start it.
It also might be a good idea to try some starting fluid and see if it fires.

Thank you for your help, this is very useful for me. Do you know where the injector resistor pack normally is in the car?

I'll definitely do the DSMLink log tonight when I get out of work.

I'm curious, under what conditions will the ECU shut down the injectors? I have some suspicion that it could be the issue is that something is reading wrong, but I can't find any documentation as to when the ECU would shut off the injectors.

 

[steve]

The link I posted shows the resistor pack location. If you browse the rest of the posts in that thread you'll find out about the rest of the electrical parts in the engine bay.

DSMLink does things that the stock ECU software doesn't, like cutting off the injectors when you give full throttle during starting so you can clear a flooded condition.

 

[Robotech]

DSMLink does things that the stock ECU software doesn't, like cutting off the injectors when you give full throttle during starting so you can clear a flooded condition.

I couldn't find where in the ECMLink software to turn off the injectors based on TPS for example, but I did run a test of the system and the injectors are showing no pulsing and no flow. So its as though they are turned off. I'll upload my attempt to start the car twice, its attached if you could possibly help me to know why this didn't work. I'll also upload my current config of my engine.

"coat rpm and more fuel.ecm" is the current settings file. I increased my flow and turned off the "coasting turn off engine" option since my car would shut off when I put in the clutch and rolled
"log.2015.09.11-01.elg" is the log from trying to start it twice.

Thanks so much
David

 

[steve]

Interesting, there is no RPM or airflow reported while cranking and your battery voltage is dropping to 9.6v (as low as 7v initially). Check both the crank and cam sensors.

The lack of a RPM signal would explain no injector pulses. The log also shows no injector pulse width.

Charge the battery up or if it is check the battery cables and terminals to explain the voltage drop.

The TPS scaling of -30 and +145 are way out of wack and would imply a TPS adjustment issue if it has a stock TPS. Given that it's a race car I wouldn't be surprised if it has a custom throttlebody and TPS.

SD is configured for a 2.3L engine.

 

[Robotech]

Interesting, there is no RPM or airflow reported while cranking and your battery voltage is dropping to 9.6v (as low as 7v initially). Check both the crank and cam sensors.

SD is configured for a 2.3L engine.

The engine is a 2.3L stroker, which is why it is set up this way.

Yes, the interesting thing is that when I was pulling 7000RPm, shifted, the engine immediately dropped to 0 RPM. That was the first thing I noticed. It has never left 0 RPM since that night I drove it last. When I shifted to second and let out the clutch to try to get the engine going, it again showed 0rpm even though at the time I could hear that the engine was turning.

As far as RPM is concerned, what reads that? the crank sensor? Makes me wonder if the crank and cam sensors use the same plug and if that came unplugged somehow.

Its a brand new battery which was fully charged at the time. Very unusual it would read so low of a voltage, but I'll definitely run a check on the battery. Although at the time it was driving with headlights on and they were working fine and I have plenty of cranking amps since the car turns over easily enough. What would cause the voltage to drop so low if the battery is ok?

 

[gofer]

I've had this happen to me too, the '97-'99 CAS connector wasn't making a good connection at the CAS so, during high RPM shifts or during a hard launch at the track, the ECU would lose the CAS signal. I used my DSMer ingenuity and zip-tied the connector to the CAS and it hasn't happened since.

Of course continue troubleshooting but I'd check the CAS connector, just push it on the CAS and then pull back on plug and see how much play there is on it.

Since you seem fairly new to your 2g, here's a screen shot of the connector I'm talking about...

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