Egt

[Kevin Jewer]

Look at the other posts in this thread I made. I think I put my time in already, thank you This is precisely the reason that people that have done the research and have the info dont want to post it, per my post on page 3... Now in return for my efforts I get an email every day, and waste 2 minutes of my life reading these useless comments.

 

[igs]

Thank you again, for your valuable reply.

 

[RocketBoy]

IGS, if GSXRacer is so wrong like you seem to think, please explain your view on the topic. Judging by your last two posts, your DSM knowledge must be quite deep.

 

[Ryan95tsiAWD]

IGS, dito on what rocketboy said above...some of us actually try to learn from this site and we appreciate the info that that guys like 95gsxracer provide. soooo....STFU

 

[igs]

Originally posted by Ryan95tsiAWD
soooo....STFU

Ok!

 

[igs]

Originally posted by Ryan95tsiAWD
IGS, dito on what rocketboy said above...some of us actually try to learn from this site and we appreciate the info that that guys like 95gsxracer provide.

You want me to explain my views? Didn't you just tell me to STFU? And you appreciate getting completely wrong and made up information? Ok I'm going to give you exactly what you want. Me STFU also allows you to continue to appreciate total BS.

 

[RocketBoy]

IGS, I just want you to know that you are completely worthless. I wouldn't trust you with a wash bucket around my car, much less a wrench, or god-forbid doing some kind of tuning. It has been a rough day, and I really could use some humor. Therefore, I implore you to enlighten us with your views on how an engine "really" works, and the way in which an EGT "really" works and responds to various changes in timing, etc.
This ought to be good.

 

[RocketBoy]

Oh, and it's people like you that should be booted from this site and be forced to sell whatever car they own and ride a bike to work or school.

You ARE the reason that people like GSXracer no longer share their valuable and useful information with the rest of the DSM crowd. When people refer to this forum as "DSMtooners" it's in reference to you.

 

[eclipse2via]

I am having issues with my new setup along these lines and I would like some input. I upgraded my 1g MAS to the GM MAFT and found I had to have bigger injectors due to overrun and then cut. So on went 660's, big for my 16G setup but room for upgrade turbo later. I have had outrageous egt's and timing since with no knock. I see 26-30 degrees at wot along with up to 1000c and max 2 knock counts(usually none). Ouch I know. Very limited time spent tuning at wot. My early model translator doesn't seem to adjust wot at all(upgrade supposed to be out any day). At first it would run up to 950+c in closed loop! I spent over a week working on that alone. The knock sensor worked two weeks before I installed the 660's and it showed 25 counts with my overrun and fuel cut. My egt gauge is a digital unit, the size of a large tv remote so I only used it logging wot before. It would show 890c at my highest mbc setting of 14psi, before it would knock. Any higher temp and it would knock. O2 runs .88v which is below where it would start to knock on 450's. I don't belive it's overfueled at this point. My DC is 68% at it's highest.
My dilema: Is my knock sensor failing? Are these temps for real indicating I'm going to hole a piston? Is it all good and the temps are just because of the huge timing I'm getting from the big injectors? Any input would be appreciated. Thanks, Scott

 

[igs]

Originally posted by eclipse2via
I have had outrageous egt's and timing since with no knock. I see 26-30 degrees at wot along with up to 1000c and max 2 knock counts(usually none).

I think my point has been proven, unless you don't want to believe eclipse2via either.

 

[eclipse2via]

Originally posted by igs


I think my point has been proven, unless you don't want to believe eclipse2via either.

What exactly was your point? You never made it clear beyond "that is horseshit" Please explain your theory. Don't just continue the personal attacks. It's not about belief. It's about understanding what is happening and remeding that root cause.

 

[igs]

Originally posted by eclipse2via
What exactly was your point? You never made it clear beyond "that is horseshit" Please explain your theory. Don't just continue the personal attacks. It's not about belief. It's about understanding what is happening and remeding that root cause.

Did you even read any of 95GSXracer's post? Here is just a small snippet:

Originally posted by 95GSXracer
Now what does retarded timing have to do with this... If the timing is retarded enough, as in LESS ADVANCE, the ignition event occurs LATER in the combustion cycle, in degrees of crank rotation. If the mixture is ignited late enough, it is still burning as the exhaust valve opens. Refer to "Myth number two." Fire in the hole will heat up the probe. THIS IS WHY high EGT temps mean that you are getting knock and reduced timing advance. Read it a few times. Let it soak in.

So according to him your high egts are caused by low timing and high knock. But you have high timing and no knock. Get it now?

 

[eclipse2via]

Yes I did read it. You still haven't said anything but "horseshit"

 

[igs]

Originally posted by eclipse2via
Yes I did read it. You still haven't said anything but "horseshit"

Did you read my post?

Originally posted by igs
So according to him your high egts are caused by low timing and high knock. But you have high timing and no knock. Get it now?

I give up. Have a nice day.

 

[eclipse2via]

You keep pointing fingers without stating any information. What do you think is going on? I guess you have no idea.

 

[RocketBoy]

First of all, you can have incredibly high timing/no knock if you just add enough fuel. You won't make much power there as all you'll be doing is "drowning" out the knock with fuel.
I suggest you start removing fuel at WOT and see where that takes you. 660's are quite large for a 16g as you said. If you reread gsxracer's post, I think you'll see that you're basically having problems with "fire-in-the-hole."
How did you fix your closed-loop problem?

*** admin edited ***

 

[eclipse2via]

Originally posted by RocketBoy
First of all, you can have incredibly high timing/no knock if you just add enough fuel. You won't make much power there as all you'll be doing is "drowning" out the knock with fuel.
I suggest you start removing fuel at WOT and see where that takes you. 660's are quite large for a 16g as you said. If you reread gsxracer's post, I think you'll see that you're basically having problems with "fire-in-the-hole."
How did you fix your closed-loop problem?

As I wrote my wot tuning is less than ideal right now. I thought about being over fueled and I don't think I am. My DC is 68% and is lean porportionally to my DC on the 450's. When I get the update(I have v 1.0) then I'll start over. Meanwhile I miss driving hard not worrying about it. Since I can, I'll try a different base setting.
The closed loop remains a lesser issue. It runs to just over 900c, it will stay closed loop up to 8psi(remember this is a 16G) or 40% throttle sometimes! It used to run to 950+ leading me to lean hypothesis. It was a combination of little changes possibly richening the mid.
Thanks, Scott

 

[QuickSilverGSX9]

I have a very basic (note this word) understanding of EGT's and their relation to timing and knock. It would seem to me, if eclipse2via is getting excellent timing and no knock, or very little, but high EGT's, that it's quite possible he's running pretty rich and there is unburnt fuel escaping the combustion chamber. After leaving the combustion chamber, this unburnt fuel combusts in the exhaust manifold heating up the probe, and therefore causing high EGT's. If I'm totally off my rocker, please feel free to educate me, I'm always willing to listen and always willing to learn. Also, I've been told by a wiseman that it's not a smart idea to tune off of EGT's alone (note this word also), and that temp's in the combustion chamer get much much hotter/higher than the temps the probe for your EGT gauge reads. And thats part of why its a bad idea to tune off of EGT's alone. Just my .02.
-Bill

p.s.-Rocketboy, could you please explain to me how you can 'drown' knock out? I don't see how you can do that.

 

[eclipse2via]

Quicksilver, that is what rocketboy was saying. I'm flaming rich. I don't think so but when I get better fuel control I'll find out for sure.

 

[RocketBoy]

Eclipse2via-
I'm sorry, I didn't understand that you couldn't tune fuel at WOT right now. I think once you get the updated version, you'll be able to fix it pretty quickly.
On the other hand, are you saying that right now you're running 900C in closed loop? That's definitely something you're going to want to look into.

Quicksilver-
If you dump a ton of fuel at the thing, the knock will go away because you can't have detonation when there is so much fuel it can't be burned. Your ECU sees no knock, and continues to advance timing.

 

[RocketBoy]

"-That is one biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiig pile of horseshit.
-You want me to explain my views? Didn't you just tell me to STFU? And you appreciate getting completely wrong and made up information? Ok I'm going to give you exactly what you want. Me STFU also allows you to continue to appreciate total BS.
-So according to him your high egts are caused by low timing and high knock. But you have high timing and no knock. Get it now?
-I give up. Have a nice day.
-Did you read my post?
-I already spelled it out for you. I don't know how it can be made any more clear. And you Fuk Off bi***. Don't tell me to Fuk Off. You're the one starting personal attacks."

Yes, and with good reason. Look at all of these comments made by you IGS. There is not a bit of information in there. Nothing. You have spelled out nothing except that you're nothing more than a childish, ignorant, computer commando.

 

[RocketBoy]

Originally posted by RocketBoy
Quicksilver-
If you dump a ton of fuel at the thing, the knock will go away because you can't have detonation when there is so much fuel it can't be burned. Your ECU sees no knock, and continues to advance timing.

There. I'm done. For the archives, everyone disregard IGS. I will no longer reply to this thread.
Good luck quiksilver. Thanks for the post gsxracer.

 

[Kevin Jewer]

After seeing the fuel trims, 120/92/125, and the fact that he has to set base at 750 when he has 660s, etc. the problem becomes obvious. Tuning with his MAFt is a complete waste of time. Whether its the MAFt itself, his version, whatver the case. Also, IDC may be 68%, but any boost leaks will richen you up with no way to measure it without a WB.

Being too rich will cause high EGT and high timing. He assured me that he wasnt too rich which made that combination seem unusual, but I'm going to assume it is an over rich situation here. I have been as rich as 8-9:1 which can cause high EGTs, and I get no knock at that level. Also, O2 voltage is still .92, showing once again how O2 is even less useful thatn EGT... I have personally seen this cause EGT well over 900c and high timing, or at least perfectly normal timing, with no knock, on my car and others. I know this is a "biiiiiiig pile of horse shit" though, even though it comes from years of personal experience on multiple cars and setups, not years of regirgitating useless and incorrect internet babble

Also, at low airflow numbers (below 2.1 grams per rev on 2Gs) the ECU will use a timing map other than the lowest advance one. Meaning that even at WOT you get high advance. I believe he is running low boost, from 11-15 psi if I remember the PM corrrectly, which would allow airflow to drop onto a lower map, increasing timing. I have seen this on my car recently since I put a 16g on temporarily. Airflow per rev peaks over 2.1 at lower boost levels but falls below it after 4-5k rpm.

And the real reason this site is called "DSMtooners" is that not only are people like igs allowed to run rampant here, but I'll get a message about having my best ET in my sig being against the rules, but I havent seen a single moderator in this thread. Thanks guys

Here's anther snippit from the big yellow box on my screen here:

"Don't give any technical advice unless you have first-hand experience on the subject."

I havent seen any evidence that you have any firsthand experience with this igs, therefore you should not be giving advice about it. .

 

[igs]

Originally posted by RocketBoy
I will no longer reply to this thread.

Good. Go home and cry to mommy little rocket boy. :laugh:

 

[eclipse2via]

Originally posted by 95GSXracer
After seeing the fuel trims, 120/92/125, and the fact that he has to set base at 750 when he has 660s, etc. the problem becomes obvious. Tuning with his MAFt is a complete waste of time. Whether its the MAFt itself, his version, whatver the case. Also, IDC may be 68%, but any boost leaks will richen you up with no way to measure it without a WB.

At least 5 different guys with 660's have posted that they are on the 750 setting so that's not just me. Unfortunately no one has a wide band dyno within 250 miles of me. I do use tbolts and silicon hoses. Thanks for your help. Scott