EGT Temps..

[Blitzeclips]

That's right people. List what you see or read (on gauge) so I can calculate an average. I am having some ceramic coating done and need to know what the normal and maximum readout is for our cars. Under spirited driving, drag, daily use, idle, anything you can offer would be great. Thanks.

-Tom

 

[96gsdsm]

My cyclinder head started to melt at 1650* this was with the probe in the #1 about 3" from the head. Also burned a hole into some stock pistons, which was really cool.

 

[VelocitàPaola]

Generally, EGTs shouldn't go higher than 1400*F. 1600*F represents a pretty lean condition at which you'll start melting stuff. Also, since you're talking about ceramic coatings, know that the EGTs are different than the surface temperatures of the exhaust parts.

 

[Blitzeclips]

Generally, EGTs shouldn't go higher than 1200*F. 1400*F represents a pretty lean condition at which you'll start melting stuff. Also, since you're talking about ceramic coatings, know that the EGTs are different than the surface temperatures of the exhaust parts.

How else would you determine which temperature the material will be around? I cannot take reading of temperature without a specific tool...

Well, atleast on the manifold, exhaust housing, and downpipe. There's no way in hell I can put one of my temperature strips (adhesive backed strip giving real-time temperatures- I use them on the race bikes) on either of these items without it melting rather quickly..

There are different grades of ceramic coating. I need to find the most ideal one before I send my items out to JetHot.. One that can tolerate the abuse I am going to throw at it under high boost or any type of testing event.

 

[VelocitàPaola]

Get an infrared thermometer.

What are the different levels? I'd say 1400*F resistant paint would be fine, and 1600*F would be overkill.

 

[Blitzeclips]

1500*, 1700* , 2400*...

I am morely concerned about the temperatures associated after 8-12 runs at the track. Then the drive home, or even over long distances...

So if the coating is too weak on the border of temperature withstandings, I don't want it to crack over time.

Basically, if the maximum temperature is 1500*, I don't want a coating that can hold 1400*.. I'd rather opt for the 1700* one. Because it's more practical when you factor reliability and overall effectiveness...

 

[VelocitàPaola]

The surface temperatures are generally cooler than the EGTs.

What are the price differences?

 

[Blitzeclips]

The surface temperatures are generally cooler than the EGTs.

What are the price differences?

Well, the one resistant to 2400 is maybe $60 more then the 1700* one...

 

[cs82685]

Generally, EGTs shouldn't go higher than 1200*F. 1400*F represents a pretty lean condition at which you'll start melting stuff. Also, since you're talking about ceramic coatings, know that the EGTs are different than the surface temperatures of the exhaust parts.

Paul can you just clear this up a bit. Are you talking about at cruising speeds or about peak with the probe after the turbo instead of before?

I was always under the assumption that you didn't really want peak above 15-1550 with the probe in the #? closest to driver side before the turbo

Edit: For shits and giggles, under cruising (highway 70-80) I'm usually around 1250 I'd say at partial throttle unless headed uphill and applying a bit more throttle while still in closed loop, then it creeps on up to around 1350-1400 unless I go WOT for a few seconds to bring it down.

1500*, 1700* , 2400*...

Basically, if the maximum temperature is 1500*, I don't want a coating that can hold 1400*.. I'd rather opt for the 1700* one. Because it's more practical when you factor reliability and overall effectiveness...

I was just about to say that you should never let the car see egt's that high (1700), but then I remember reading a post by I wanna say Terry explaining higher egt's on a built motor so you may want to look more specifically at what people are seeing with built engines

 

[VelocitàPaola]

Paul can you just clear this up a bit. Are you talking about at cruising speeds or about peak with the probe after the turbo instead of before?

Oops, I shifted my figures down 200*F. I always do that; I thought I had it right that time...

You shouldn't see temperatures higher than 1600*F, with 1400*F being in the upper portion of the safe range. That's with the probe in the #1 runner of the exhaust manifold.

 

[DSMcrazy3]

I've got an infrared thermometer. I can get you some temps by the end of the night possibly. Oh Paul, I will get you that plenuum reading too .

 

[DSMcrazy3]

Alright I let the car warm up to idle and took some temperatures then went driving and after, immdiately took more temperatures.(Made several pulls getting the EGT's in the 1400's)

Outside temperature was roughly 70* F

At idle(operating temperature) - 380*-400* Idle EGT was 780*

*The temperature varies based on where the temp is taken from. From right at the main collector it's substantially greater than from individual cylinder runners.*

After strong driving - 804*

After 5 min idle with the hood up - 660*


I took a few other readings just to let you guys see what's going on temp. wise with turbo systems.

Intercooler
Hot side - 88*

Cold side - 76*

IC piping
Immediately off turbo - 131*

At the Throttle body - 119*

I remember Blitz mentioning this problem specifically, but I and I'm sure plenty of others are, or will begin experiencing it. I'm referring to the oxidied spot on the hood.

Hood

Above VC/Intake manifold - 94*

Over turbo - 140*

I highly recommend either getting a heatshield, or atleast a fireblanket re-installed on the hood.(If it's not already there)

 

[totaleclipse_05]

Would water-cooling the turbo keep the hood temp much lower?

 

[Blitzeclips]

Alright I let the car warm up to idle and took some temperatures then went driving and after, immdiately took more temperatures.(Made several pulls getting the EGT's in the 1400's)

Outside temperature was roughly 70* F

At idle(operating temperature) - 380*-400* Idle EGT was 780*

*The temperature varies based on where the temp is taken from. From right at the main collector it's substantially greater than from individual cylinder runners.*

After strong driving - 804*

After 5 min idle with the hood up - 660*


I took a few other readings just to let you guys see what's going on temp. wise with turbo systems.

Intercooler
Hot side - 88*

Cold side - 76*

IC piping
Immediately off turbo - 131*

At the Throttle body - 119*

I remember Blitz mentioning this problem specifically, but I and I'm sure plenty of others are, or will begin experiencing it. I'm referring to the oxidied spot on the hood.

Hood

Above VC/Intake manifold - 94*

Over turbo - 140*

I highly recommend either getting a heatshield, or atleast a fireblanket re-installed on the hood.(If it's not already there)

Wow, thank you. That was very, very helpful. I think the temperature reading overtop the turbo is concerning to say the least. I would vouch to say everyone with a 420a-T should have some sort of heat shield on their car..

Mike also brought up a good point. I have the water jacket inlets/outlets on my turbo. I have not hooked them up because I have no idea where to tap for this. I was thinking the coolant return on the top passenger side of the radiator. But even then, I don't know what fittings of type of "hook-up" I should use either(-10AN, -6AN, -4AN..?). So if anyone can fill me in, that'd be awesome. Maybe I can search around the 4G63 forums for this info... Wouldn't hurt to put what is available to good use.

Alright guys here's exactly what I;m looking at. I am leaning torward the XTREME Sterling ceramic coat... 3rd one down..

http://www.jet-hot.com/Pages/coatings.html

Description: JET-HOT EXTREME STERLING™ - Similar to Sterling but will hold its shine up to 1,400°F and will protect parts up to 1,700°F. This coating insulates slightly better than sterling and is semi-textured. (Made from our MC-15 formula.)

I would assume I should be OK to run this, unless anyone has seen our EGT's go over 1700.

Also, I called the sales rep and got some prices, incase you guys may be interested.

4 cylinder log-style turbo manifold- $175ish
TD06 Super 20G exhaust housing- $100ish
3" downpipe - $25 per foot (<----THAT is a deal)
I'd say effective coating to the flex section or oil pan area would be fine. I'm going to have about 2 feet coated from my DP flange+turbo ex. housing, backwards..
Now these aren't official prices, these are the estimates the representative gave me when I spoke with them on the phone. I can't give you an estimate on shipping because mine will not be shipped so I could never ask. Turns out they *just* got finished building a big facility in Quakertown, PA. Maybe 2 hours from my house. So I'm just going to drop the parts off before I leave for a 7 day cruise with my buddies. Downside is, they need 8 business days for a turnaround.

Generally though, he said shipping is around $70 total, if you were to ship from up North to the South, or somewhere is relatively equivalent distance.

If anyone can, PLEASE post something about where you'd tap for the coolant on my turbo, what size and type of lines, etc...

 

[Slo2gen]

To run the coolant lines you need to tap into the line above the exhaust ports and the lower radiator hose. It may keep the turbo cooler but it will also make the car run hotter, would be nice to have a 160 therm.

 

[VelocitàPaola]

Look at the thermostat housing. There's a nipple stemming from it, where a short piece of rubber hose is attached, followed by a hard line that goes back to the heater core. That's where your water feed line will come from.

If you trace the heater core hard line all the way around, you'll see the return side attach to another short section of rubber hose, before attaching to the nipple on the lower hard radiator hose (the one that connects to the water pump). That's where the return line will need to be tapped into.

There's more than one way to do this, but that seems easiest.

Here's a picture of Corbin's old setup, which was in the configuration I described:
http://www.2gnt.com/www/corbin/sell_hrc2.jpg

Here is a good line on 2GNT with pictures of an alternative way:
http://forums.2gnt.com/dcboard.php?...um=4&page=&topic_id=74758&prev_page=show_mesg

Here's a diagram of that alternative way:

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6-AN line is about the right coolant lines size. That, or ~3/8" rubber hose. You can do the whole water cooling system for about $30 or so with parts from Lowe's. I'm probably going to go with all SS, and I estimated all the fittings and lines to cost about $180.

 

[Blitzeclips]

Thank you for that, Paul. Also thanks to everyone who has replied to this thread so far. I really appreciate your time and help with this..

OK. So I know where and what I'm doing now. The only problem I'm running into is how to seal these components I've tapped into. It's a rubber hose, correct? So how would I be able to permiate the surface and tap the lines, without causing leaks or, in other words, keeping it sealed from a coolant leak? Maybe a high temp silicon based sealant?

 

[BigRand]

Well from the digram, I'm thinking a small metal (probably copper or something that won't leak) Tee inbetween where the rubber line is. so inbetween the thermostat nipple and the hardline Tee it inbetween there, and connect them with 2 rubber lines and some very very very tight hose clamps?

That would be my first thought, but if someone wants to add why this might be a bad Idea I'm listening.

 

[VelocitàPaola]

Yeah, just look at the picture of Corbin's setup. You can use two barbed tees and just tap into the pre-existing sections of rubber hose. No sealant needed, just a couple of hose clamps. That, or you can weld steel fittings to the pipes...

 

[Blitzeclips]

Man, I don't know. What really worries me is increasing the chance of getting air in the coolant. There would be no way of me knowing unless I burp the system every other week.

Do you guys really feel that confident about this? I meen, it just becomes that much more vulnerable to air entering the channels...

 

[VelocitàPaola]

Why are you so concerned about air getting into the system? It all gets pushed out into the reservoir tank during normal operation. There's really no need to burp the system at all; that's kind of an antiquated procedure for older cars that didn't have this feature.

 

[Blitzeclips]

I'm a stickler for details. If that changes anything..

 

[DSMcrazy3]

Yeah, I think you're alittle too worried about air getting in the system. Clamp the hoses tight if you go that way, or have a professional weld the fittings on, make sure he knows they need to seal completely.

As for burping the system I agree with Paul. If you look on the thermostat you'll see a brass pin through a little hole, that's a "jiggle valve" it acts as a passage for air to escape if it ever does get in the system.

 

[Blitzeclips]

If you look on the thermostat you'll see a brass pin through a little hole, that's a "jiggle valve" it acts as a passage for air to escape if it ever does get in the system.

That explains alot. I was seriously wondering what that was for a while one day..


OK. So you guys convinced me. I'm going to coolant cool my turbo. Time to whip out my Summit catalog and start looking up fitting and lines.

Thanks to all!

 

[DSMcrazy3]

No problem. If I had coolant ports on my turbo I would be more than happy to hook them up and record the temperature differences. Unfortunantly, right now I do not.