Spyder ECU question - Hard starting after trans swap

[Sonek]

Hey guys, I have a little question. In my 2g Spyder GS was automatic transmision - it was changed for manual transmission and engine doesn't start the first time, every day morning starts for second time. Lately it start normally for first time...weird. Fuel problems or something?!

Anyway - after the transmission swap (from 96' 2g 4g63 coupe) I should change ECU too? From 4g63 '96, or 4g64 but from car with manual transmission? I'm fu***in confused...

Sorry for my English but I'm little pissed off, I hope everyone will understand what I'm talking about

cheers.

 

[bryanwheat]

Which cam angle sensor are you running the 97-99 on the passenger side, or the 95-96 on the driver side?

 

[kanusky1990]

Ok so let me see if I understood you correctly. You originally had an auto 2g Spyder. You swapped a manual transmission into it. Every morning when you go to start it, it only starts on the second attempt? You may need to explain further, but I'm guessing you mean the second time you turn the key.

If you swapped the engine also, then you may need to replace the ECU with one that is compatible with the sensors that are on the engine. Some years use the same sensors so there are multiple ones you can use.

 

[bryanwheat]

You actually swap out the sensors on the engine to match the ECU and harness that is in the car. 95 and 96 have a different harness than 97-99 so if you were going to swap ECU's you would have to swap the harness also. (the harness's will hook to either ECU) The difference in the harness's is the cam sensor plug. On 95-96 the sensor is behind the cam sprocket, on the 97-99 it is on the passenger side of the head. The plugs are different and in the wrong location.

 

[Sonek]

kanusky1990 - exactly. Here is the video how engine starts -

eclipsestart - YouTube

ps. on the video I starting the engine quite shortly, but it sdoesn't metter because i can hold the key even 5seconds and it will not start. Than i push gas pedal 2 or 3 times and turn the key - than car starts smoothly :] - engine is still 2.4 without turbo.

bryanwheat - Dude, if You talking about this sensor:

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...than it is on passenger side

 

[Sonek]

Hey guys,

I have problem with my Eclipse Spyder GS.

Every morning when I go to start it, it only starts on the second or third attempt, then I can turn off engine and for couple hours engine starts normally, on first attempt.

I don't know what's goin on here.

Here is movie how engine starts I recorded

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-my car has changed air intake for short ram.
-car has swapped manual transmission (i don't know if it was OK before transmission swap because I bought it after it was swapped)

Maybe someone knows what cause of starting like this is.

I checked resistance on coolant temperature sensor (cold engine) and it seems to be OK.

I'll appriciate every kinds of help

Thanks

 

[Diamond Star Werks]

seems like it would have started if you had kept the key on for one more second. I couldn't say there was anything wrong unless you can hold the key on and it never starts till you try it the second time.

 

[Sonek]

I can hold key for example for 5 seconds and it won't start...

on the video i hold key for short time, but it doesn't metter...it won't start anyway :]

 

[Diamond Star Werks]

but it will start everytime on the second try?

it almost sounds like your fuel pressure isn't building up properly. Like the pump isnt priming when youy first turn the key on. Are their any driving problems?

 

[92AWDHX40]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-miscellaneous/217951-how-diagnose-no-start.html



This is a nice thread.

 

[Sonek]

but it will start everytime on the second try?

it almost sounds like your fuel pressure isn't building up properly. Like the pump isnt priming when youy first turn the key on. Are their any driving problems?

Everytime on the second try. Ive checked fuel pomp and it seems that works fine...
I've disconnect pipe (shown on picture below) and even on first attempt when i trying to start engine i see fuel

Thanks for thread! I will take a look.

 

[92AWDHX40]

Maybe the coolant temp sensor is bad, do you have spark? If the sensor is bad you will have problems starting the car, and flooding, mine did.

 

[Sonek]

I will buy new coolant temp sensor - its cheap...cost about $15

 

[Diamond Star Werks]

I will buy new coolant temp sensor - its cheap...cost about $15

You can try this but I don't think its your problem.

Flooding is flooding. If its flooded first time its flooded the second time. If you can do what you did in the video and it doesn't matter how long you hold it it won't start then I don't think flooding is going to be your problem especially if it always starts that easy the second time.

If its a vacuum leak pumping the pedal should effect it when trying to start it. If it doesn't even try to run no matter what you do with the pedal I would say flooding is not the problem. If it idles smooth without any problem hot or cold then I don't think its a vacuum leak issue either and that its most likely an electrical problem.

 

[stars]

I would start looking at where your putting your key. If you insert key and rotate ignition cylinder and nothing happens then I would troubleshoot that first. If that is all o.k then you have to figure out why the starter is not getting the signal to engage relay and send current to the starter. It could be a fault in the ignition cylinder or fault of some kind if it has a theft/alarm circuit installed. Any kind of security device can cause a no start situation to occur at random that can disrupt the starting process. After it does start it has a slight stumble but it recovers and sounds normal to me.

 

[Diamond Star Werks]

I would start looking at where your putting your key. If you insert key and rotate ignition cylinder and nothing happens then I would troubleshoot that first. If that is all o.k then you have to figure out why the starter is not getting the signal to engage relay and send current to the starter. It could be a fault in the ignition cylinder or fault of some kind if it has a theft/alarm circuit installed. Any kind of security device can cause a no start situation to occur at random that can disrupt the starting process. After it does start it has a slight stumble but it recovers and sounds normal to me.

maybe you should watch the video. Then try to help out. Cause I'm pretty sure he was saying it turns over but didn't start.

 

[stars]

maybe you should watch the video. Then try to help out. Cause I'm pretty sure he was saying it turns over but didn't start.

I watched the video 2 times thank you! And in the darkness I could see the cluster illuminate, the key fits into the ignition cyclinder, and he turns it and the dash illuminates....so what the dash lights up, now where it is the current going or why its not going when the key gets cycled is his problem as I understand from the video. Only after it look like he cycled the key off and on it started, so what It started up yes. His complaint to my understanding is that when he turns the key the first time it does not start. Also unless you have been an mechanic for at least 19 years I would value your opinion MJcanada and I like how you offered your opinion to his problem. Flooding problem has been solved since the invention of the fuel injected system, if you have to crack the throttle to get it started your simply lettin in more air enter into the intake. Unless your injector sticks open fuel injection vehicles are not prone to flooding as they once was.

 

[Diamond Star Werks]

I watched the video 2 times thank you! And in the darkness I could see the cluster illuminate, the key fits into the ignition cyclinder, and he turns it and the dash illuminates....so what the dash lights up, now where it is the current going or why its not going when the key gets cycled is his problem as I understand from the video. Only after it look like he cycled the key off and on it started, so what It started up yes. His complaint to my understanding is that when he turns the key the first time it does not start. Also unless you have been an mechanic for at least 19 years I would value your opinion MJcanada and I like how you offered your opinion to his problem. Flooding problem has been solved since the invention of the fuel injected system, if you have to crack the throttle to get it started your simply lettin in more air enter into the intake. Unless your injector sticks open fuel injection vehicles are not prone to flooding as they once was.

He did turn it over and it did crank but did not start. I even asked and he said yes it turns over but no matter how long he holds the key it cranks but doesn't fire up. So its turning over but never starting on the first cycle but he says it will start everytime on the second try. And as for the flooding issue I opinioned against it flooding as if you read what I say I said flooding is most likely NOT the problem. I know how fuel injection works. I have been a mechanic for a few years now. Not 19 years but a few years. My older brother is also a mechanic, and my other older brother was at one point. And my oldest brother still is and specializes in turbo chryslers and old mopars, and is starting his own shop. Also my dad been working with cars since he was 17 and is 63 now. My first mechanic boss was late thirties and had been messing with cars since he was able to drive. I was barely 16 then. Second mechanic boss late thirties been working on cars since he was a 17 and has been running a succesful automotive shop for over ten years now which my dad manages. Third mechanic boss and current boss 32 been working on cars for 17 years and currently running his own automotive shop and specializes in automotive electrical. I am not the best at cars but certainly not the dumbest. Not trying to fight with you though. Just was pointing out that you needed to pay closer attention to the problem as the OP never said anything about turning the key and nothing happening at all. My understanding was first time cycle was a crank but no start.

 

[stars]

Every morning when I go to start it, it only starts on the second or third attempt...than i can turn off engine and for couple hours engine starts normally, on first attempt...(Stated on his first post)

I can hold key for example for 5 seconds and it won't start...

on the video i hold key for short time, but it doesn't metter...it won't start anyway :]

(Stated on his 3rd post)



"Just was pointing out that you needed to pay closer attention to the problem as the OP never said anything about turning the key and nothing happening at all." (Your quote to me)

You sure he "He never mentioned the first time he turns the key and nothing happens" then 2nd time he turns the key the car the car starts? I think you need you need to learn to pay attention and start learning some listening skills, MJcanada if you want to be in this industry.

MJcanada our shop has 3 of us there, all combined we have over 100 years between us. I would work on your listening skills because what he posted and your are saying he didn't post are 2 different facts. (I have them quoted above)

As a technician I try to get as much as the picture as I can, I ask questions then I get the facts; even if it risks asking a stupid question. I don't fight I just get stuff figured out and fixed and on to the next problem. I just dislike it when someone like you who thinks you have a clue and really don't have a clue while making contradictory comments which you should have refrained from to begin with. There was no need for you to say a word...period..unless I was giving him bad information/advice. Enough said, I could not make out his problem even with that video he made but, I could hear the audio just barely. I was trying to gauge his problem and your not helping any at all at this point, so I will leave it up to Sonek if he wants to listen to your advise,
it's a free country!

With all of that said, Sonek, sorry you had to hear all this but, since you have OBD-II then your in luck and can get it fixed sooner than later. If it where my car I would go a a shop that has a scanner if you do not have access to one. Have them first see if there are any DTC's in any of the lists. The key may set off a code if your lucky, if not, then will have to look at the "live data" to see if the key is getting recognized when it is inserted into the ignition cylinder. Describe them your problem with your key/ignition how it don't do what it is supposed to do like any other normal start. Now, go out and show the mechanic what it is that is happening, you are trying to describe to him. It's important that you be as detailed as you can be. The reason for detail is so they can start checking on the area they may suspect is the cause; allot faster than anyone can guess. They will be able to look at the live data and tell if the key is being recognized in the ignition lock assembly. The ignition/key may not be your problem, it may be something else. But at least you have a place to start troubleshooting anyways. Any place to start is better than second guessing. Wish I had a simple answer for you but as you see electrical problems aren't easy to troubleshoot but, eventually you will get to the source if your persistent and have good electrical schematic, If you think you can do all this yourself don't hesitate, but if you can't do it do not be afraid to go ask a shop for help.

 

[SEVERENI]

Way to take over this kids thread

 

[John Mark Dongon]

Did you find out the problem? My car does the same first attempt it wont start no matter how long you hold the keys. It starts on 2nd attempt.