Dying / Failing Clear Coat [Merged 7-8] cote clearcoat paint dead flaking peeling rot

[jmakado]

Your friend with the Evo has single stage paint. So no clear coat. SS paints can fade and be brought back to life with no ill effects. Since you have a Base Coat/Clear Coat paint it doesn't fade, it fails. CC failure is not fixable. Once it starts the damage has been done. A repaint is your only option.

 

[jesselyons2002]

Your friend with the Evo has single stage paint. So no clear coat. SS paints can fade and be brought back to life with no ill effects. Since you have a Base Coat/Clear Coat paint it doesn't fade, it fails. CC failure is not fixable. Once it starts the damage has been done. A repaint is your only option.

He's telling the truth. Also Rubbing compound isn't used to protect the paint finish. It's use to remove the swirls, scratches. It does this by removing some of the paint. A thin layer. Also if you use rubbing compound. You have to follow up with a least aggresive polish and pad to remove the compound haze and marring and to burish the paint to a high shine.

 

[JackalUO]

The clearcoat on my roof looks like it is starting to crack. Is there a way to repair this?

 

[jesselyons2002]

Sorry no. Clearcoat failure can only be fix by repainting.

 

[mitsu2]

Sorry no. Clearcoat failure can only be fix by repainting.

Thats right....
Repair and refinish is the only way to fix that problem....

 

[gsxsoul]

So I was looking at picking up a Talon just for a daily driver, but it has some clear coat damage and was just wondering how hard it is to repair this. Is this something i could do myself or something that should be left for a body shop? Sorry the pics are kinda bad, but im sure youll get the idea. Thanks!

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The damage is on the driver side rear quaterpanel and roof.

 

[Scrymerr]

The panels will need to be repainted. I would just spray the whole car. Painting is not hard to do by yourself if you are patient, careful, and pay good attention to detail.

 

[fastasseclips95]

Being a painter myself you will need to repaint everything where the clear is flaking off. If you have never done it pay someone to do it. For some reason everyone thinks just becuase they picked up a rattle can once in there life they can spray a car. Its two totally differet things when you have to add hardners to the exact mixing ratio and multipe coats in most cases. Its not something you should attempt on your own. I just 2 toned my eclipse and it took me 2 months until I was satisfied with how it turned out. Keep in mind I did the jams and all but it was not the first car I have every done either.

 

[alansupra94]

Also keep in mind that once you become familiars with paints, you will start notices imperfections must better and faster than the normal person. Also you tend to take your time with priming, spraying and of course sanding.

 

[fastasseclips95]

Also keep in mind that once you become familiars with paints, you will start notices imperfections must better and faster than the normal person. Also you tend to take your time with priming, spraying and of course sanding.

Man that is so true. I started painting out of my garage in my free time. I did my brothers civic and then my eclipse. The civic was kinda a feeler job for my home setup. Once I get the enviroment exactly right in my garage I started to notice where my impections were coming from and was able to almost completly eliminate them to where they color sanded out.

 

[spooled_u]

So I recently picked up a black 95 Black AWD with some paint fading on the quarter panels, hood, and roof. If I decide to keep it, I'd like to have it repainted. Some parts of the car look really good, and others... well... not so much. I'd assume I wouldn't need a full blown paint job if I'm keeping the same color.

My question is what kind of prep can I do if I want to keep the black, just get it resprayed and cleared? Light grit to take off the clear coat ? Take off a layer of black ? Thanks!

 

[KeelesKustome]

hello. I thought I might chime in as this is my proffesion.

I have been Certified by PPG, AutoColor, and Spies Hecker. paint co, We are all ASE certified, and i have over 800 hrs of ICAR training with a Gold certificate, the highest a single person can achieve
When you go to a shop ask if the shop is a ICAR Platinum Certified shop, if it is, that means every employee is a Gold ICAR Technician.

I work in a collision shop, and have painted over 30,000 cars, ###### only 50 show cars,

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if desired i can provide a few pics of my own personal cars and bikes i have done, as customers deserve to show their own vehicles off, not I.

When it comes to a failing paint, one thing I'd like for you to consider, even if you truelly doubt it.
Ask yourself.. has my car been repainted before, for some reason, such as an accident?

Note that when you haver an accident, unless the whole car is damaged, the whole car does not get repaired and refinished. Most shops are under strict guidelines by the insurance companies, and are lucky to get to blend panels.

What blending means: If your quarter panel is damaged and it's a fairly large amount, their is a good chance that after it's been straightened and reapired, that the painter has to prime nearly the whole quarterpanel, this makes perfect color match difficult, so the painter will tint the paint the best he can, and then most likely blend that color onto your door and your hatch lid, In doing so your quarter, the hatch lid, and your door have all been recleared.
A good painter can make it seem like nothing was ever done to your car,

As the detail line will buff the rest of the car to bring out the shine, so the new paint doesn't stand out to much.

For a fading milky clear coat: This is what we like to call Oxidized clearcoat. Basically if your clear is still on the car at theis point you are lucky. UV rays have pretty much destroyed all the protection clear coat gives.

To fix this, is no easy solution for the weekend warrior of body modifications.

The clearcoat needs to be completely removed, as does the paint underneath, the best way to prove a perfect bond and exzistance of your new paint, is to Remove all the paint down to the Ecoat with an orbital da, using 180 grit paper.
Once you have completed this long, boring and dust ridden task, a good dea is to use a red 3 m scuff pad to go over evry edge to make sure their is no shiney spots left on the paenl you may be working on.
This goes for bumpers, metal panels..etc...

Then a good 2K primer will be needed to spray over the stripped area.
If you have a booth to bake this in you can sand it after about an hour of baking at 170 degrees, opther wise let it sit and cure for 2-3 days with it being at least 80 degrees outside.

while spraying the primer, wait
8-10 min in between medium to wet coats on a 75 degree day, at 10 minutes of waiting per 10 degress lower than that. I'd put 3-4 coats on.

you'll wana use a trim black paint as guide coat, unless you have guide coat..

lightly spray the primered area just letting dotts appear on the hood, not full coverage,

idealy, I dry block my primer with 320 grit and a long block untill all orange peal and imperfections are gone. once they are.

I use 3m's 500 grit to wet sand the hood, once more you should have guide coate on before sanding, as now you are just removing the 320 grit scratches that you need to be able and see.

if you plan on sealing the hood before you spray your paint you can stop here.. if not, you need to regude caot and wetsand with 600 grit, untill it is flawlessly sanded, as silver will show up all imperfections.

as you begin to spray your paint, you would wanna have a good quality paint gun, I preffer HVLP SATA JETS,, i use a satajet nr2000 with a 1.4 tip for all sealers and basecoats, and a satajet 3000 digital with a 1.3 tip for clearing.

I run about 24 psi for basecoat and 32 for clear with spies hecker paint with these guns.

when i am spraying autocolor paint, i spray base at 16 psi, and clear at 24 psi. Every paint has a diff consistancy, and every air compressor has a diff flow rate so their is no way of accurately telling you what it should be set at.

If you have never sprayed paint before you may regret trying to spray silver. seriously. But if you insist... make sure you have some sort of air drier on your air compressor, with flawlessly clean hoses. otherwise. you will have a mess on your hands with fisheyes, etc...... trash galloure.

before you decide to color sand and buff, it should have at least 2-3 mils of thickness in the clear as you'll be taking 1/2 up to a mil off when you color sand.
here is what a freshly sprayed clear should look like before it's buffed.

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I just realized i could go on for another 30 min... but in all honestly, it would be nearly 1/5th the cost with a better job to have a local shop paint it for you.

I have ran out of time but this evening i will be back on to add more and rap this up

 

[KeelesKustome]

Q) What color is my Car...?

A) If you open your hood on the passenger side it will be on the silver tag

Alternates are different shades of the same color. As 1 color may have up to 10 different alternates, meaning a color could be greener, darker, coarser, redder, have a lighter flop, etc.

Q) How much paint will i need to paint my car?

A) Every color has different appaerent covering millage. and every Paint Brand brand does as well..
Rule of thumb is more expensive the paint the better it will cover with less coats.. "most the time".. Their are paints like House of Kolor, it would take around 3 gallons of reduced paint to covere our car.. if you have extra pieces such as body kits.. it will take even more.
But for exterior parts only not including the jams, a paint such as spies hecker, autocolor, ppg deltron, ppg global will paint it with a reduced gallon. a paint like ppg shopline, will need about 1.5 reduced gallon of paint to cover.

Q) What's the difference between a Two-Stage and Single Stage Paint Job..?

A) A Single stage paint Job is one of the best in duribility and flexibilty.
It's easier to buff out gouges not just scratches. Because it will shine back up even if their is only 1 mil of material on their to work with.
A single stage isn't just paint added with clear.
It is a paint that has a single layer additive. this allows the paint to shine once sprayed on.. even with just one coat..
The right way in applying this,, is to add 2 coats of this on your vehicle, wait 8-10 min between coats if spraying in 70-80 degree conditions,
then mix this 1:1 with the clearcoat and making sure you use the same hardener that u put in your single stage, Because if you do not bad things will happen, such a cooking up or lifting. and put 1 coat of the half single stage and half clear on the car.
then mix 1part of whats left in your cup, whitch should not be a whole lot maybe a 4th of the 1.7 reduced pint cup,, with 2 parts of clear.

then you go with your final coat with straight clear.
and be sure to wait the 8-10 mintues between every coat.
This will give any solid color an amazingly deep look as compared to basecoat clear coat alone.
This is why Chip Foose's truck that was overhauled was single staged.

The idea that every car comes from the fACTORY WITH BASE COAT CLEAR COAT, IS HIGHLY MISPERCIEVED. sorry about the caps.
and it offers less protection from the elements,, but is ideal for any metalic colors, or pearls..

and when it comes to a 3 stage paint, where you lay your ground color then the pearl on top of that, it would also need to have bascoat clearcoat application,

Now when it comes to metalic colors you will always want to use a base coat clear coat application.

Q) what is sealer and do i need it?

A) sealer is a great previnative. What means it it will allow you to stop sanding with a corser grit. The thing that helps cushion hoods and bumpers from rock chips, is the ecoat under the the paint and also the sealer that is used. The sealer or ecoat is a verry durable flexable product that allows you to sand down to 320 grit and be sprayed right over that grit, allowing for better grip,,, then 3 coats of paint and 2 coats of clear are applied,,, the finish will be durable and flexible and it will withstand much more abuse.

Q) What is Blending...?

A) If you have a new door put on your car, the ideal situation is for it to match..... sorry most likely it doesn't. So you'll need 2 blend both your fender and rear door, or quarter panel.
most the time your blend should cover 3/4 of the panel you are going onto. and you should have all the blending agents to help keep everything seemsless. such as clear basecoat, you won't be spraying the blending panels with the same air pressure you do the door with, say if your spraying the door with 24 psi, you'll wana drop your preasure to around 12 psi and step your gun a few inches further back and fan it out slightly. then you will be reclearing the 3 panels for a seamless repair. this isn't for the faint of heart or inexperienced.

Q) How many coats of clear do I need for the best paint..?

A) Just look at the clear you buy, it will tell you the best coat coverage that is needed.
Most clears are not designed for more than 2 coats. The more clear you add the more of a chance it will fail...
Metal and plastic flex and contract in heat and cold all the time,, this will make the clear crack or peel or crowsfoot, or become verry dull looking compared to the virant color that was laid underneith.
Extra clear doesn't make a paint job slicker, it actually makes it look crappy. By putting to much clear a cars slick surface will start to become all ripply and chunky looking,, even if you wetsand and buff it, the most that is taken off by doing that is around a half a mill.. that will not slick out the rough clear..

That much clear will also build up around every edge and making it much easier to chip because of that.

If you want you can paint and clear a vehicle, then allow it to dry completely, and rewetsand it and reclear it with 2-3 coats again.. and that is acceptable and will turn out great

Q) I want a custom paint job. How much will it cost...?

A) Go to your local shop for an estimate, they are free, every state differs, just remem you get what you pay for.

Q) What kind of Primer do I need to use so my paint won't chip...?

A) their is no miracle cure, but for the best adhesion a
2K primer and put 2-4 coats ( one thing you may want to do.. is even if the primer does not say it needs a reducer use a slow reducer in it anyways, as it will evaperte out,, our rule of thumb is if you put 100 grams of hardener also add 100 grams of reducer, this will make the primer thinner and lay out slicker allowing it to soak up into the scratches and fillers instead of making a barrier over the top of them,, that will eventually shrink up after it's painted for a few months, allowing you to see where the body work was done) and then guide coate the surface and wetsanded with 320 grit and then rewetsand useing a a soft blaock as with the 320, also use it with the 600 grit, this will give you a much better quality job.


Q) My paint is chipping of my bumper left & right but the rest is fine. Why...?

A) well most bumpers don't have hardley any material on them from the factory, they make some additives to make sealer and paint adhere better, creating a perminant bond to your bumpers, and it's products such as one choise, a three step procees before you seal and paint your bumpers , their is a common mis conception that flex additives are nesicarry.
they make flex additives for flexable parts.
Your bumper is not a flexable part thus does not need this.. if you don't believe me, go up to it and see if you can twist it.
off the car yes, on the car no....
Also the additive does not change the color of your bumper.. IE the painter changes the color of your bumper,, because either they did not make enough paint and spray it at the same time with the car..
or the air conditioning is different, such as their is more humidity in the air when the bumper is sprayed, or even changing your air pressure by 1 PSI will alter how the metallics or pearls lay on your car.
If your bumper don't match have the person who sprayed it respray it.

as a painter should be able to tint you bumper color to match perfectly all the time.

if you decide to use this useless additives with todays paints on any exterior part,, you can use it on metal as well, it won't effect anything. and will actually help detur chipping from parts like your hood.

Q) I just got a Complete paint job but my bumpers look like there a different color...?

A) Most cars at dealships, their bumpers don't match, this is correct.

But thats because the bumpers and plastic pieces are painted at differnt plants, and some times their paint vats they use, don't get cleaned as well as they should when new paint is added , thus altering the color a shade or 2. that is why they making varient cards for paint companies.

this why they don't match,
Now go look at lexus and mercadese,, theirs match.. have you ever woundered why....?
because the higher end cars have the plastic pieces and bumpers painted with the car, at the same time, to ensure a seemless color match.
it has nothing to do with it being plastic or any flex additive that is no longer needed on exterior parts...
the only product that is needed on exterior parts is on raw plastic bumpers. and it's called One Choice, and it allows the paint to adhere to it with a permanant bond.

Q) what is the difference between a clear coat and a high solid clear?

A) a normal clear is great for a beginner in the game, when spraying they flow out alot better and still creat a great job, they just don't get near as hard as a high solid, thus if wetsanded and buffed the high solid clear will have a much higher gloss than a normal clear coat.

Q) whats the most important thing when spraying a car?

A) moisture and trash. Moisture in the air, and the moisture that may be comming through your air hose. this is a nono. you will need an air drier of some sort on the compressor not your gun.
Also, trash, this could be a nightmare if in a normal garage even pollin that you can't see will leave spots all over your fresh paint and clear making it look horrible, causing a desprate need to be resprayed or color sanded and buffed.


"
Q) should i paint with a 2k product of a laquer product?


A)for the life of a 2K, paint, lets put it this way. a good quality 2k paint, continues to get hard for 90 days before it's completely cured,

This means that the primer, the paint and the clear keep shrinking closer and closer to the adhered surfice, showing all imperfections after 90 days, and it had a death drip on your car.

Laquer products, do not ever really completely cure to a rock solid form, it stays somewhat flexibly soft, not fingerprint soft, but one reason it needs to be waxed and buffed more often, is because it expands and contracts around twice the amount as the metal and polyurathane bumpers do.


now, if you put a high soild 2K product over laquer guess whats going to happen.

the top layer is going to try and shrink in tight to the base and the laquer is going to slighhtly mover, causing your 2k product to litterly split open and have cracks in your paint,

if your lucky it won't do anything for a year but then it will most likely crows foot at the least.

Although it is possible to spray a good 2k product over just laquer primer, don't get me wrong, but even this will fail within a year or 2 as they are not designed to adhere to each other.
If you are not carefull and spray really heavy like i do, as spraying really heavy and wet creates much slicker paint jobs, your reduced paint such as ppg deltron will litterly cook up the the laquer primer before it is even cleared.

I the ideal thing is to stick with what your product is designed for, mismatching products can work sometimes, but unless your a chemist, I'd leave the chemistry to the professionals and head the labels advice with what products to use.
__________________

 

[KeelesKustome]

a few pics of ym work area when i have had a verry long work week. I'll have it clean monday and some clean photos.

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few of my guns, from left to right, my satajet nr2000 with 1.4 head, i use it for sealer and basecoat, it's awsome at laying all solids and metalic and pearls.
next is my digital satajet 3000, with 1.3 tip, i use this only for candy and clearcoat.
next is my sata i use for priming 1.4 tip.
next is a cheapo gun with a 1.5 tip i use for spray mask, and the one on top is my devilibis plus, with a 1.4 tip, great for basecoat as well.

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we use 3m pps cups,, what a mess. this will be clean monday. we keep our left over paint till the vehicle has left, just in case.

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my scale and computer for the paint system, we also run our shop radio off the internet from here.

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we swapped to spies heck paint this year.... not to big a fan, but it's great to be able to use tso many products and meet so many new people in the paint world.

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my visual tint chart for matalics and pearls.

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our Garmat downdraft climate controlled booth.

can't leave out the cb7 valve cover being primed in the booth..

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[KeelesKustome]

my work area in our shop.

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up close of the guns i use the most.

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you'll notice i use high flow air fittings for all my satajets, the devilibiss does not need it.

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my son the future painter. when he doesn't try to eat the gun.

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here are a few. motorcycles in the work, i don't normally post them, but they aren't customers yet, i will be selling them.

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[KeelesKustome]

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[KeelesKustome]

i have alot more to add to this, i just have not had the time and i apologize, if you have any questions please ask, I'm here to help you out.

 

[Fejery4491]

KeelesKustome because of you I'm subscribing to this thread. That was very informational and will definitely come in handy when I start prepping my car for paint sometime this winter.

 

[KeelesKustome]

I appriciate that, any questions just ask. and if it were helpfull please tag is as so.
if you need help with supplies as they are not cheap I am willing to see what i can do to help every member out as well. That goes for anything.

 

[KeelesKustome]

my buddy's jeep tailgate, he wanted me to teach him some ofmy techniques, so i said $100 and we had a deal, . heres what i did., i plan on painting the jeep black with this tore out of the hood as well.

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I've spent the last 2 years when i have time from collission work to do this camaro for a friend, still am not completely finished but close.
all the body work and new panels like the door skin on the passenger side and the rockers etc... all of it i have done.
I primed the car and blocked it completely down with 180 grit, fixed any waves or dings i may have missed. I primed it again 2 caots, blocked it with 180 grit again untill i had metal and body filler showing pretty much all over, telling me if it was straight or not. I primed it a 3rd time with slightly overreduced primer 3coats and laid it out slick a clearcoat, this time i guide coated it and wetsanded it with 320 on a hard block, and went back with 500 grit wet on a soft block, as i did not want to seal the car, because sealer will add un wanted orange peal. and this had enough milage of primer on it making it un-nessicary.
this is a true 3 stage paint. I laid my Black base, then red diamond pearl in a clear basecoat binder. If you ever paint you'll know just how hard it is to lay any paerl over black in a 3 step process without turning it the color pearl you chose.
He wanted the car to stay black untill street lights or the sun hit it, so this is what i came up with he loves it so do I. (give me your imput.) ohh in these photos i hadn't color sanded and buffed the car yet. i used ppg's new shopline high solid clear on this just to give it a shot, i also used the slowest hardener they had as i sprayed it in the summer. verry touchy stuff but i love how it really sucks into the car, lays out nice. ....although now it is and for the most part re-essembled and buffed.

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my masking job in the garmat downdraft booth, I have already cut in all the jams as spraying this is actually harder than doing some of my candy jobs, because if you don't put enough pearl, it will be blotchy, if i put to much it will turn completely red..

 

[KeelesKustome]

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these are after the black base is laid.

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meeeeeee verry tired..... shoulder hurts.

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First coat of claer has been laid

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this fender gab was horrible because the new skin wasn't long enough,, so i had to weld 2 inches onto the fender and straighten it out to make the gap look this good.

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the beutiful car outside.

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be sure and notice how nice the lines are. these cars did not come from the factory looking this good, and it takes alot of work to do so.

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awsome shot!

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[KeelesKustome]

now making all the other pieces match... theirs alot...

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i may be wrong on the spelling but from what i know, if you want a job just about anywhere and have great respect from your peers, before you even enter thee shop, Wyotech is from what i hear, the best of all places in this industry.

a little update on the car here for ya.
gotta love these shop lights, they are designed so to help us see all the flaws, i'll get some outdoor finished photos when it's 100% done.

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[KeelesKustome]

edit: i forgot to mention i talked him into letting us not put the ugly upper rain guards around the windows back on, also painted the chrome door handels, blacked out his taillights, he let me paint all his window moldings that were chrome black with flat clear. i added more diamond red pearl to the side vents and hood scoop, we will be tinting his windows with 20% new fresh black tint. we still need to undercoat his rear inner fenders, put a fresh windshield in. all new door panels and dash cover, also had to paint upper dash panel because it was metal /flat black of corse. i also blacked out his front blinkers as you can see them near his front lip.

the above car owner also own this harley he's had me do on the side.
I had to grind down and shave the old emblem spots and go back with flames to match his fenders, he wanted more flames and a design similar to what i have done, he seen the finish product today and was so happy he told me it was batter than what he'd imagined. And he is picckier than i am.
I'm sure you can tell whats with flash and what isn't.

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[eclipzedspectre]

You a glassy finish use omni clear and lay 3 coats of clear and hit it with a 2ooo dry and 3000 wet itll look like glass

 

[TurboLaserRS]

Just a curious question more than anything- but I have a 1g that the clear coat is rejecting the rest of the car and I wanted to know if I could just take some fine grit sandpaper and wet sand the affected area on the fender. I know that it doesn't FIX the problem, but I would rather have the paint be flat there than white splotches that look like sh1t! I figure at least it wouldn't be so noticeable, but I also don't want to cause it to spread any further.
I literally know NOTHING about painting so if I'm completely off base here please feel free to tell me so.