DSM Miata

[elocneas]

ever see anything radical and awesome that was easy? no v8 this sounds cool,good luck.

Thanks. Will see how it all comes together.

 

[ncdirtrider249]

I almost got a Miata as a DD, and was toying around with the idea of putting a 4g63 in it. I'm in for the build pictures!

 

[elocneas]

I almost got a Miata as a DD, and was toying around with the idea of putting a 4g63 in it. I'm in for the build pictures!

Working on my parts list and funds now so hope to have the project going soon.

 

[4g63tc]

How so? An aluminum v8 would nearly identical to a turbo iron block 4cyl. So the balance wouldn't be affected.

Because a Miata doesn't have a Iron Block. It's a driver's car, not a Weekend Grudge Match Drag Car.

If you have never Owned One, or Driven One, then i Guess it wouldn't make sense. the 1.8L in the Miata, With Bolt on's and Building can net a respectable 300+ Hp to the wheels. ( IE: Built Bottom end, Stage 3 Turbocharger, Feul, yada, yada...)

300+ Hp in a 2300lbs car = crazy Power to Weight Ratio.

Personally LS1 is my Favorite swap for this car, Low 11 sec runs on a stock LS1. But that's in a straight line.

These cars were built in the mind set of Low-Mid range performance, for carving canyons, tracks. That's why the rear end is geared at 4.56.

My personal Second Option is the SR20Det, Minor mods to get it in, a bit of hacking, and banging for clearance, and the Only real Fab is a Modified Oil Pan.


I own a 2k Miata (NB) SE

 

[whe3ls]

there are a couple people running dsmlink in there bpt and b6t. there is also bolt in kit that allows you to use a ford 7.5 or 8.8 out of a tbird. also there is a guy who makes a 4g t56 bell housing.

www.monstermiata.com
http://www.billsautofab.com/recent_mit.asp

 

[91stocker]

Because a Miata doesn't have a Iron Block. It's a driver's car, not a Weekend Grudge Match Drag Car.

If you have never Owned One, or Driven One, then i Guess it wouldn't make sense. the 1.8L in the Miata, With Bolt on's and Building can net a respectable 300+ Hp to the wheels. ( IE: Built Bottom end, Stage 3 Turbocharger, Feul, yada, yada...)

300+ Hp in a 2300lbs car = crazy Power to Weight Ratio.

Personally LS1 is my Favorite swap for this car, Low 11 sec runs on a stock LS1. But that's in a straight line.

The flyin' miata guys say otherwise. They detailed records of the weights. An ls1 actually gives the miata nearly perfect weight distribution. 52% front, 51% rear.

Here's the link to the pro's
Flyin' Miata : V8 conversions : Turnkeys and tradeins

Specifically this quote "Well, the first time we took one autocrossing, we set FTD with it - by a margin of nearly 4 seconds. We've destroyed our own lap records around our local track, outrunning purpose-built race Miatas with a street-oriented V8 Miata. Yeah, it handles. "

 

[g4ebguy90]

How so? An aluminum v8 would nearly identical to a turbo iron block 4cyl. So the balance wouldn't be affected.

Did you forget about the extra rods and seperate heads?

A 4g63 weighs about 150lbs or so short block.

 

[4g63tc]

The flyin' miata guys say otherwise. They detailed records of the weights. An ls1 actually gives the miata nearly perfect weight distribution. 52% front, 51% rear.

Here's the link to the pro's
Flyin' Miata : V8 conversions : Turnkeys and tradeins

Specifically this quote "Well, the first time we took one autocrossing, we set FTD with it - by a margin of nearly 4 seconds. We've destroyed our own lap records around our local track, outrunning purpose-built race Miatas with a street-oriented V8 Miata. Yeah, it handles. "

Let"s see, I buy parts from those guys, they know their stuff, But then again they have the funds, and the knowledge to do it right.

Your average garage tuner, would not be able to recreate the same example.

Oh yeah, Miata weight distribution is 50%/50%. So i guess the V8 makes it's weight 103% ? (52% / 51%)

Do me a favor, it's easy to search the internet, and get an answer. Own a Miata...Drive one, then tell me it's a great idea to slap a big V8 in there, and go cruising around the Track.

Don't get me wrong, I love the V8 swap, but not in a track car. The set up in a Miata, was even far superior in the twisties to the S2000, even when having an almost 70 hp deficiency. It is a well balanced Driver's car.

Wait a sec.. doesn't GixxerDrew have a race Partner that campaigns a Race Prepped Miata?

 

[91stocker]

Did you forget about the extra rods and seperate heads?

A 4g63 weighs about 150lbs or so short block.

A piston and rod combo are what 3lbs, so there's 6 extra lbs. Another head is 25lbs, remember they're light, no cams etc. Ohv motor. The turbo set up more then makes up for that.


Do a 4g to be different, but know the ls1 is a better/cheaper option.

Do me a favor, it's easy to search the internet, and get an answer. Own a Miata...Drive one, then tell me it's a great idea to slap a big V8 in there, and go cruising around the Track

Don't get me wrong, I love the V8 swap, but not in a track car. The set up in a Miata, was even far superior in the twisties to the S2000, even when having an almost 70 hp deficiency. It is a well balanced Driver's car.

Did you not read the link?

 

[elocneas]

I can say this from my research that there is no such thing as a cheep engine swap.

 

[4g63tc]

^ did you read my reply? @91 stocker

I Buy Parts from them, I've been on their Site, and they sponsor Miata.net

And the 4G63 is not a cheaper option. the SR20DET is. It even uses the stock Miata drivetrain.
Mounts, Electronics, and Fabbing/modding the oil pan to clear the front cross member.

OP is better off Supercharging, or Turbocharging his 1.6L, or swapping it to the 1997 up 1.8L with pretty much no hassles.

Want more top end? Swap out the rear Diff, Cusco makes one that is completely customizable, and if you want a cheaper alternative the 2nd gen rx-7"s

 

[91stocker]

^ did you read my reply? @91 stocker

Lol, reading it again, it still sounds like your saying a v8 ruins the miata.

 

[shane90gsx]

Let"s see, I buy parts from those guys, they know their stuff, But then again they have the funds, and the knowledge to do it right.

Your average garage tuner, would not be able to recreate the same example.

Oh yeah, Miata weight distribution is 50%/50%. So i guess the V8 makes it's weight 103% ? (52% / 51%)

Do me a favor, it's easy to search the internet, and get an answer. Own a Miata...Drive one, then tell me it's a great idea to slap a big V8 in there, and go cruising around the Track.

Don't get me wrong, I love the V8 swap, but not in a track car. The set up in a Miata, was even far superior in the twisties to the S2000, even when having an almost 70 hp deficiency. It is a well balanced Driver's car.

Wait a sec.. doesn't GixxerDrew have a race Partner that campaigns a Race Prepped Miata?

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They drive nice. However I think there is some info that needs to be discussed. My 94 Miatia weighs 2600 and some change. To have this weight distribution flying miatia had to clearance the fire wall. If you don't, it moves the motor is 4 inches forward. And it does not handle nearly as well. They also have a tubular from subframe to keep the front with the heaver LS motor up front ok with handling. And that's a 1500 (+) option for the sub frame. I like the tried and true. However, the 4g would be nice, lighter despite the NA sayer. However if you want cheap and reliable... Keep or get the 1.8l, and turbo it. http://www.bellengineering.net/ or flying miatia. Good options for power.

 

[91stocker]

To have this weight distribution flying miatia had to clearance the fire wall. If you don't, it moves the motor is 4 inches forward. And it does not handle nearly as well.

Clearance is required regardless right? Simply because of physical size difference. Could the motor possibly fit sitting 4" forward? If not, then that point is rather redundant wouldn't you say? I mean they're not going to install the motor with it poking through the hood and front bumper like some ghetto kswap .

They also have a tubular from subframe to keep the front with the heaver LS motor up front ok with handling. And that's a 1500 (+) option for the sub frame.

The 4g is a heavy bi***, i really doubt there is much of a difference from an ls to a complete assembled 4g with ic, all the piping, etc. Ls weighs 385lbs from what i could find. And a shipping quote on a 4g long block was for 375lbs, no turbo or ic.

Your comparing an iron block to aluminum, 2 ohv heads weigh less then one complete dohc head, plus turbo vs n/a. Pretty obvious the weights are going to be very similar if not in favor of the ls.

 

[4g63tc]

Yeah, At 24k it's cheaper to put a full Flying Miata LS1 Package into my 2k Miata.

Under 4 grand to Turbocharge the 1.8L, or Supercharge for that matter.

http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=466714 330hp/258 rwtq with a supercharged 1.8


My Personal goal is to reach 1hp per 10 lbs. or about 240 to the wheels, I'm already Supercharged with a JR CARB legal Set up, and close to my goal.
Jackson Racing Supercharger set me back a little less than 4k. No internal Mods, use of the supplied chip, and bumped up to 190lph pump, and 550cc injectors. Pretty much the system is Plug and Play with a total install time of about 8 hours.

 

[91stocker]

Yeah, At 24k it's cheaper to put a full Flying Miata LS1 Package into my 2k Miata.

That list is pretty excessive. Includes stuff like 8k for the motor and 3.4k for the trans, 1k for an accessory drive kit . Hell you can get entire running ls cars for under 8k all day long.

Under 4 grand to Turbocharge the 1.8L, or Supercharge for that matter.

330rwhp/258rwtq -- 1.8 motor w/1.6 Lysholm SC (upped boost) - MX-5 Miata Forum 330hp/258 rwtq with a supercharged 1.8

My Personal goal is to reach 1hp per 10 lbs. or about 240 to the wheels, I'm already Supercharged with a JR CARB legal Set up, and close to my goal.
Jackson Racing Supercharger set me back a little less than 4k. No internal Mods, use of the supplied chip, and bumped up to 190lph pump, and 550cc injectors. Pretty much the system is Plug and Play with a total install time of about 8 hours.

Nice numbers, nice looking car too I would much rather go that route then a 4g swap. My only point was if i were to do a swap, theres only one swap id even consider.

 

[4g63tc]

That list is pretty excessive. Includes stuff like 8k for the motor and 3.4k for the trans, 1k for an accessory drive kit . Hell you can get entire running ls cars for under 8k all day long.



Nice numbers, nice looking car too I would much rather go that route then a 4g swap. My only point was if i were to do a swap, theres only one swap id even consider.

IMO the V8 swap is nice, But in my situation It wouldn't work. To me it's like trying to Stuff an Evo Motor into a 420A chassis, sure you can do it, but in the end do the means justify the ends.

The 1.8L in a Miata is a great running, Reliable motor out of the box. A Bit of forced induction and it comes alive, Albeit it kinda gets limited to the amount of power it can produce. Which is why i'm a fanboy of the Sr20Det swap, Good Power, ease of installation, and a plethora of aftermarket parts. 400hp out of an SR20 isn't that difficult, but that much in a Miata is kind of overkill, as traction becomes an issue. We can't exactly Stuff huge wheels and tires under there. I personally run a 15 x 8, with a 225/50/15.

 

[jrohner]

Do a 4g to be different, but know the ls1 is a better/cheaper option.

If V8's are so cheap, why is it that every V8 I see at the drag strip has many times more money in their engine than I do in my whole entire car (that beats many of them)? Also, most of those V8's are trailer queens and I DD my car.

Since 4g's came in RWD applications, you could even run a transmission from one of those applications without wasting money on adapters or anything. How do you get much cheaper than that? Or you can get a bellhousing from billsautofab and put in an awesome transmission.

 

[elocneas]

As far as tire size for me not sure how big I will able to go but I plan on cutting the rear fenders and using some fender flairs.

 

[96awd16g]

There's 2 contradictory statements constantly being thrown around in this thread.

One yes the all aluminum ls series is similar in weight to our iron block 4g63, but the iron block truck motors are MUCH heavier.

Two you are not getting an aluminum ls for under $1000. That's total bs. You can pickup a long block truck ls for 500-1000 if you want a 4.8 or 5.3 WITHOUT harness and ecu. Then we get to the point of weight again.

How I see it is, spend 1800-2500 for an aluminum ls, 1000 or less for a small displacement iron block ls that would probably demolish the weight distribution, or go 4g63 and be different, cheaper, and maintain a decent weight distribution.

 

[arrowhead]

Everyone seems to be forgetting what the OP wants to do, with apparently help from his friends, and instead of giving him encouragement most want to change his mind.
I am very familiar with the Miata and did a lot of research on them before going for the Talon, we even have a rear subframe from a Miata in my grandsons Fiat Brava.
Some facts, the trannys give a lot of problems even on the spec classes, which may be pulling maybe 120hp., the cars with 1.8 engine are even worse as the rear also gives a lot of problems, so the stock drivetrain would not handle the power, and will not handle a supercharge or a turbo for sure,
I also disagree that just a bolt on is cheaper, it may be easier but not cheaper, besides some people have more hot rod blood than others. and are not satisfied with just the easiest way.
There are a couple of weak points on the rear subframe, if you decide to keep it, I could point them out to you.
I am positive I read an article about using a TB diff on the Miata frame and was very easy.
You have chosen a fun project and wish you luck with it, keep us posted,

At the end do whatever turns your crank.

 

[elocneas]

Everyone seems to be forgetting what the OP wants to do, with apparently help from his friends, and instead of giving him encouragement most want to change his mind.
I am very familiar with the Miata and did a lot of research on them before going for the Talon, we even have a rear subframe from a Miata in my grandsons Fiat Brava.
Some facts, the trannys give a lot of problems even on the spec classes, which may be pulling maybe 120hp., the cars with 1.8 engine are even worse as the rear also gives a lot of problems, so the stock drivetrain would not handle the power, and will not handle a supercharge or a turbo for sure,
I also disagree that just a bolt on is cheaper, it may be easier but not cheaper, besides some people have more hot rod blood than others. and are not satisfied with just the easiest way.
There are a couple of weak points on the rear subframe, if you decide to keep it, I could point them out to you.
I am positive I read an article about using a TB diff on the Miata frame and was very easy.
You have chosen a fun project and wish you luck with it, keep us posted,

At the end do whatever turns your crank.[/QUOTE
I will be going with the ford 8.8. Possibly the mark 8 to get the aluminum carrier

 

[4g63tc]

Everyone seems to be forgetting what the OP wants to do, with apparently help from his friends, and instead of giving him encouragement most want to change his mind.
I am very familiar with the Miata and did a lot of research on them before going for the Talon, we even have a rear subframe from a Miata in my grandsons Fiat Brava.
Some facts, the trannys give a lot of problems even on the spec classes, which may be pulling maybe 120hp., the cars with 1.8 engine are even worse as the rear also gives a lot of problems, so the stock drivetrain would not handle the power, and will not handle a supercharge or a turbo for sure,
I also disagree that just a bolt on is cheaper, it may be easier but not cheaper, besides some people have more hot rod blood than others. and are not satisfied with just the easiest way.
There are a couple of weak points on the rear subframe, if you decide to keep it, I could point them out to you.
I am positive I read an article about using a TB diff on the Miata frame and was very easy.
You have chosen a fun project and wish you luck with it, keep us posted,

At the end do whatever turns your crank.

I have a supercharged 1.8L, which sees DD + track time at Willow springs, and i have absolutely no Issues with the Drivetrain. ( Stock)

And I'm pushing slightly over 200 RwHP.

 

[arrowhead]

You are lucky.
Are you doing wheel to wheel all out racing?, all I can speak of is from the experience in racing, as a matter of fact one of our car just won SCCA race in Atlanta, my buddy does about 2 or 3 a wk, trannys and diff. after these races but anyways the OP has made his decision.

Thanks

 

[Dsmx17]

Going to make it a rear mount and possibly use a t56 trans with a custom bell housing.

That would be impossible. but best of luck sounds like a neat little project.