Doing First rebuild/overhaul few questions

[maroon_98_RS]

Sorry if this has been asked before but I did search and could not find what I was looking for.

I'm doing my first rebuild/overhaul by myself. I have access to a shop since im in school to become a tech. I have the engine broken down except for the head. I'm taking the block and the head to the machine shop tomorrow to get it all checked out. I did some inspecting myself and I had basically no ridge at all in the cylinders and very little wear on the crank bearings. However I do want to replace them.

I've tried most local autoparts stores for rebuild/overhaul kits and i'm not having much luck at all. The only place I've found that sells what I'm looking for is a store on EBAY. They have a kit that includes pistons and oil pump etc. for about 350-400$. I'm not trying to build for future boost or anything on my first build. I tore this engine apart just as a starting point for learning so I just want to go back as close to stock as possible.

are these kits enough for a stock rebuild? I've been told they would be pretty much equal quality to anyting I would get at autozone etc. If not could you point me in the right direction in where I should buy a kit from?

 

[Shake_Zulla]

The machine shop will tell you what parts you need to/might want to replace. Wait for them to look at it before you buy a "kit". It might save you some money and you might need other parts not included in an Ebay kit. Take a look at this for pointers
2GNT.com - A_Proper_Rebuild
http://az2gnt.net/FSM/2gnt_420a_overhaul.pdf

 

[maroon_98_RS]

Thanks for the response and the link to that invaluable thread. Much appreciated!

 

[Shake_Zulla]

Thanks for the response and the link to that invaluable thread. Much appreciated!

No prob thought it was kinda weird no one was saying anything. I have found through experience that a good machine shop is one of the most important things to find. Try to find one thats honest and does great work then even if you spend a little more on some parts you can get through them you know that they wont jack you around and push work that doesn't really need to be done.

 

[nemesis7]

the kits on ebay are not that bad if you are doing it as a learning experince its perfect for you.

 

[marshall_308]

I would recommend threading the oil galley plugs just like the 4g63 blocks if you take them out. I have had very little luck with the oem and auto part stores plugs. Had to pull my motor out multiple times because of 2 dam plugs and still having problems.

 

[maroon_98_RS]

I actually Left mine In I think. Didn't seem like they would get in the way.

Oh and as a little update. The news from the machine shop was good mostly. The only thing I needed was New pistons. Everything else I can use factory sizes. The ebay kit should be here today. I'll update when I get it and measure everything.

 

[Absolut_VIII]

Any update on your ebay kit? Just curious, i'm buying a long block off a totaled vehicle for $100, guy said the timing belt tensioner broke from the wreck and the motor keeps sticking when he tries to manually rotate the engine. If I find the block and cylinder head are in salvageable state, then I wouldn't mind rebuilding a motor for my DD myself.

 

[maroon_98_RS]

Well I received everything on last Friday. The kit came with NPR pistons/rings and King bearings. Everything else was autozoneish quality parts.(which imo will be enough for a stock rebuild) I wasn't able to measure anything as the quarter ended and I don't have my own micrometers etc. Yet. So I took the pistons and the valve stems to the machine shop. It should all be done by Thursday. When school starts back in about a week or 2 I will be able to lay out everything I have on a table and sort out tolerances. If I get my hands on some measuring equipment then I'll do it sooner then that. I kind of wanted to blueprint this engine to some degree.

This is the kit I bought.
Eagle Talon 2.0 420A 16V Engine Rebuild Kit - eBay (item 260694447652 end time Apr-16-11 09:54:16 PDT)

My instructor checked out everything before I took it to the machine shop. And from initial inspection he said everything looked to be of decent quality parts. Assuming I install everything correctly we will see how long it lasts.

 

[Shake_Zulla]

Any update on your ebay kit? Just curious, i'm buying a long block off a totaled vehicle for $100, guy said the timing belt tensioner broke from the wreck and the motor keeps sticking when he tries to manually rotate the engine. If I find the block and cylinder head are in salvageable state, then I wouldn't mind rebuilding a motor for my DD myself.

The reason why the motor keeps "sticking" is because the pistons keep hitting the valves. If the timing belt goes in these cars there is no clearence between the pistons and valves so I would say at best the valves are bent and there is some piston damage. Worst case the head is trashed and the cylinder walls are scratched to hell from turning the motor by hand. Buyer beware.

 

[Absolut_VIII]

The reason why the motor keeps "sticking" is because the pistons keep hitting the valves. If the timing belt goes in these cars there is no clearence between the pistons and valves so I would say at best the valves are bent and there is some piston damage. Worst case the head is trashed and the cylinder walls are scratched to hell from turning the motor by hand. Buyer beware.

Appreciate the info, I am assuming the valves are bent, hopefully the head isnt scratch all to hell. The guy just tried to turn the motor over by hand to see if it was good since it wouldnt start in the vehicle. He just pulled it out a few days ago, but I am keeping my fingers crossed that a greande hasnt gone off inside the motor. I guess well find out today when I pick it up in a couple hours. Either way, $100 bucks isn't too big of a loss either way.

 

[Shake_Zulla]

Appreciate the info, I am assuming the valves are bent, hopefully the head isnt scratch all to hell. The guy just tried to turn the motor over by hand to see if it was good since it wouldnt start in the vehicle. He just pulled it out a few days ago, but I am keeping my fingers crossed that a greande hasnt gone off inside the motor. I guess well find out today when I pick it up in a couple hours. Either way, $100 bucks isn't too big of a loss either way.

Yeah I would prob do the same if I was in your shoes just wanted you to know what the risks are.

 

[dsmcrzy]

good luck with the rebuild looks like your on the right path and its def a great learning experiance and you get to know your car so you dont have to pay a mechanic! good luck keep us updated on how it goes!

 

[maroon_98_RS]

Just a little update....

Well turns out my head was warped and pitted after all. Apparently the machinist lied to me when he told me everything was ok and I was good to order parts. Either he lied or he didn't actually check the head until yesterday or today. So Now I need a head. I'm a little pissed off because had he told me the head was bad initially I would NOT of thrown money at this car right now. I have an mr2 and a motorcycle that requires my attention. So for now This car will most likely sit until I feel like working on it again. I'll try to post pics tomorrow of the damage to the head.
Is this how most people's first rebuild adventure went ?

 

[maroon_98_RS]

Well this is what my Head looks like now. Bits and pieces of metal around the water jackets are just gone. Wish He had told me this before I ordered parts and had the pistons pressed on... Oh yeah is it standard practice to just get a box of shit back from a machine shop like that >.>

 

[tec_41]

Holy christ...no that's not normal. I pay about $80 for a pressure check/resurface, and it always comes back assembled.

 

[Bud92gsx]

No that's not normal at all..Now everything is all mixed up, and the cams are probly shot just being thrown into a box like that..That's BS dude for sure..

 

[bullettdsm]

That head is still good. You just have to have it decked. BUT you will need to do something about the valves now that they are are jumbled up. You would have to re-cut the valves or get new ones. And then have them at least lapped in or seats reground (depending on condition).

I'm not sure why the machine shop would tear the head all the way down like that........

MB

 

[95weclipse]

That head is still good. You just have to have it decked. BUT you will need to do something about the valves now that they are are jumbled up. You would have to re-cut the valves or get new ones. And then have them at least lapped in or seats reground (depending on condition).

I'm not sure why the machine shop would tear the head all the way down like that........

MB

100% agree its still good, but if you want another head that is still asembled shoot me a pm and we can talk about a price. Ill give it to you cheap I got it for free.

 

[maroon_98_RS]

The head has already been shaved once. From what He told me.. However I figured I would need new cams and valves and whatnot to match a reman head etc. Its pretty close to the um I guess casting marks?? on the corners of the head. It looks like to me you would have to shave half an INCH off of it for it to be smooth...

 

[bullettdsm]

It looks like to me you would have to shave half an INCH off of it for it to be smooth...

Hmm, must be the 2 dimensional pic then. It looks like she would clean up relatively easily (but you got the 3-D look at it).

As for the cams, unless you see something outstanding on them (Pits/chunks taken out/warpage) there should be no problem with re-using them. If its just because they are put in the box like that, they will be fine. Stocker cams are a dime a dozen because they are pretty hardy.

MB

 

[95weclipse]

And dont worry about the valves either just go get your self some lapping compound and a lap stick its cheap. just clean every thing really good.

 

[maroon_98_RS]

Thanks for the advice guys. I'll try to take another pic of the head when I get off work. I'll try to get an angle that shows how much of the metal actually crumbled off. Its like M&M sized chunks...

 

[95weclipse]

It looks like the coolant was never changed. When coolant gets old it turns into acid and starts eating stuff. I work on semis and see this all the time with the cylinder liners.