Different coilover setups, recommended most for track/street use? Tein, JIC?

[black97GSX]

For a while now i have been reading many threads on different coilover setups. So far the company I'm leaning toward is Tein, with their SS or Flex setup. I have also been checking out JIC, but they seem to have about the same amount of pros as cons, unlike Tein who seems to have more pros. Only problem I've seen with the Tein so far is possible rusting but from other things i've heard Tein has taken care of that. I'm looking for a setup for will work great on the track and street. Starting soon my car will be seeing the 1/4 mile at least once a week and probably a couple times a week those late night races, but its also my daily driver. I want to be able to lower it but keep the ride comfortable, reliable and easy to adjust. The setup will be going on my 97 GSX. I already have front and rear strut tower bars and will probably order sway bars and install them the same time as the coilovers. Also since money is always short, i'm trying to get a setup that will last me a while with none or little problems even if i have to spend a good mount of money at once. I'm trying not to spend more then $1400 with the install. I'm hoping to do most of the install myself with some friends and my pops, as long as we have all the tools. Also if i end up going with the SS kit i will probably throw down the extra money and get the pillowball upper mounts so it would end up being the same as the Flex just hopefully a little cheaper. Also i wouldnt be getting the EDFC, dont need to be spending that extra money. I've been checking out the vendors and seeing some good prices but i was wondering where people would recommend getting the setups and has anybody ever gotten one off ebay. Was there any problems with them, check these out....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33586&item=2475000784&rd=1

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
ViewItem&category=33586&item=2475008827&rd=1

...any info or comments on what u guys think would be awesome. Thanks a lot.

 

[black97GSX]

Heres the second ebay link again since it doesnt seem to be working...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33586&item=2475008827&rd=1

 

[PaulPDX]

Ebay vendors usually are not authorized dealers. So, if that is the case, you can forget about support or warranty claims.

What's wrong with the JICs? I have read no such thing.

From what I've gathered the JICs are more track oriented while the Tein SS and FLex are a bit more street oriented than the JICs. I like the idea of EDFC and it would be the only reason for me to want Tein. Hit one button for soft for driving around crappy city streets so you can keep more of your teeth with you into your old age (and because none of us pay enough taxes to keep the roads nicely paved... right). When a punk pulls up in a WRX and want to stick to your rear bumper, hit another button for the firm setting and head for the twisties.

For me, a 1G guy, it's kind of a toss up between the two. But since it's a major PITA to run wiring through the firewall in mine... I'll probably end up with the JIC and put $ away for dentures.

 

[black97GSX]

haha, thanks for the reply man. To mention one of the problems i've heard about JIC is their struts not staying tight. A couple people i have seen have had problems like this. Also i heard that the customer service wasnt very good there and if you have problems with your setup and not good customer service, thats not a good mix. Thanks for the info on the ebay dealers though. If anybody has any other info on the JIC or Tein SS and flex setups, let me know. I would like to hear from both sides, people with the JIC setup on their cars and the Tein setups, thanks a lot.

 

[PaulPDX]

I don't think you'd have the customer service issues if you get them from RRE.

 

[3literpwr]

JIC are junk!! I have the shock dyno data to provie it!
They are completely inconsistant in forces from part to part...
Not to mention that the adjusters dont do what they are supposed to do.....

I dont car who tells who how they FEEL that does not mean shite!!

regards
Larry "testing, building, designing dampers sense 2000)

 

[PaulPDX]

I dont car who tells who how they FEEL that does not mean shite!!

regards
Larry "testing, building, designing dampers sense 2000)

That made no sense at all.

 

[3literpwr]

What made no sense? They are no good I have data to show it? Listening to what is said about "FEEL" only tells a bit of info.. Givin that the person telling knows what they are talking about or feeling for...... Data tells the rest of the story......


Larry
#622 Scca Club Rally

 

[PaulPDX]

What made no sense? They are no good I have data to show it? Listening to what is said about "FEEL" only tells a bit of info.. Givin that the person telling knows what they are talking about or feeling for...... Data tells the rest of the story......


Larry
#622 Scca Club Rally

What made no sense? Read what you wrote:

"I dont car who tells who how they FEEL that does not mean shite!!"

 

[3literpwr]

Ohhh.... the gramatical errors? Ok...... I know shocks but not so much of grammer.....

What made no sense? Read what you wrote:

"I dont car who tells who how they FEEL that does not mean shite!!"

 

[Turbo Shogun]

... Well, I think we can trust you on this one, but you said you had evidence ... Would you be so good as to show us?

I've heard Tein's rust like hell after two years. In California. Perches and all. Just a rumor I heard around the AE86 people who have HA's. I've yet to call Tein about this and ask, but I don't have the $$$ for coilovers yet. JIC's would be the next logical choice, however, 3liter claims to have evidence against them.

IMO, it's better to buy a full coilover setup than spend just as much on perches, sleeves, shocks and camberplates separately. If you add up the cost of AGX+DSS Coilovers+GC Camber Plates, for example, Tein's start to look very good for a $100 or more.

 

[PaulPDX]

Ohhh.... the gramatical errors? Ok...... I know shocks but not so much of grammer.....

Well, just a side note: when you claim to be an authority but fail to provide hard evidence beyond voicing mere opinions... AND, can't convey your point in an precise and eloquent manner, it has the effect of discrediting what you say.

John Muller, the suspension tech at RRE has plenty of history in competitive racing both as a driver and technician... doesn't seem to have any complaints in working with JIC products (specifically the top of the FLT-2A model). So, considering that, and the above points, pardon me if I don't take your opinion seriously.

IMO, it's better to buy a full coilover setup than spend just as much on perches, sleeves, shocks and camberplates separately. If you add up the cost of AGX+DSS Coilovers+GC Camber Plates, for example, Tein's start to look very good for a $100 or more.

Can't agree with you more on that... coming from several years of modding cars I've owned and learned lessons from watching others doing the same. Doing it right the first time is always cheaper.

As for the rumours of Tein struts rusting... that's exactly why many vendors and manufacturers hate the internet. A few cases of bad experiences spread like cancer to the point where no one knows what's true and what isn't... what's past and what's present. I have heard the problems were corrected, but again... nothing more concrete than hearsay. I think that if the car is driven in states where they salt the roads in the winter time... just about anything will rust.

I don't think you can go wrong with either. The Tein SS do have an advantage over the JICs in terms of price, considering their cost plus the EDFC unit equates to a set of JICs (FLT-2A)... more or less.

 

[black97GSX]

Thanks for the info and replys so far guys. Like u said PaulPDX, the Tein SS does have a better price then the JIC but then u talk about the Tein SS setup with the EDFC. Only the Tein Flex setup works with the EDFC, unless im wrong, which i dont think i am. As of right now after i save a couple more bucks i think i might end up going with the Tein SS setup and get the optional pillowball upper mounts that the Flex setup has. Going with that setup instead of the Flex setup i could probably save about 200 bucks. And i really dont see any reason to have the EDFC. I mean i cant see myself needing to adjust my suspension from inside my car. I mean it would be nice and all but i dont think it would be worth it to have to buy the Flex setup and then spend the extra money on the EDFC. From what i remember the EDFC is around 300 bucks right. So the flex and EDFC together would be probably around 500 or so dollars more then the SS setup with the pillowball upper mounts. If you guys know anybody that has the Tein SS setup with the pillowball upper mounts let me know how they like it. Or if anybody else on her has it let me know how u like it and if u would have rather just saved some extra money and got the Flex setup. Thanks a lot.

 

[3literpwr]

Well, just a side note: when you claim to be an authority but fail to provide hard evidence beyond voicing mere opinions... AND, can't convey your point in an precise and eloquent manner, it has the effect of discrediting what you say.

PaulPDX Do you want the DATA? I have it in excel format.... Send me a email @
[email protected] The JIC dyno charts are at work so I will send them tommorow.....

As for RRE suspension guy... Do they have a $120,000 dynamics dyno for testing dampers or do they simply go by feel too?

Not to dog them but they also think that DMS is the greatest shock in rallying, but I can show you dyno data from them showing that they have a VERY small range of adjustment and are not all they are cracked up to be.....

I dont have to prove or defend myself to anyone! I post on this board to help people and give advice from someone within the industry NOT just some guy that SELLS shocks or has put a set on his car.....

Cheers
Larry

 

[PaulPDX]

What model of JICs did you do your test on?

Not to knock your findings... but realistically, most poeple who get coilovers don't run them beyond the streets. Adjustability may not be that big of a deal. Most people leave them at the default setting and never change them because it's too inconvenient to stop the car walk out and change the settings. The Tein SS with EDFC would certainly address that. The rally bred shocks you mentioned in another thread is more than likely to be overkill for the streets.

Getting back on topic, you said the JICs are junk... so what would you recommend that is readily available? [read: not custom or expensive? I'm not driving a 13 yro DSM because I'm loaded.]

I've heard Koni is working on something with H&R, but I seriously doubt the 1Gs will be supported. If they are supported, it'd be a miracle and that's what I would get. Had a set of H&R coilovers on my 98 GTI VR6. The car handled like a racing cart.

 

[3literpwr]

I know that H&R used bilsteins in the past and are still doing so as I have a friend that is working on a project for firestone for the PRAXIS suspension that uses a firestone airbag insteat of a spring and a bilstein 36mm inverted insert.....

For the street car I like AGX's although they may not have the ideal curves for the street they do however have part to part consistancy and the adjuster do what they are meant to..... Also as of late I have become fond of the HOTBITS line of products as they are consistant and can deal with the force of rally (when valved right)......

I am currently building a 50mm inverted monotube setup for my rally car using parts from
ZF sachs of america.... If your not familiar with them they built the dampers for Michael Schumachers F1 car and Petter Solbergs Winninr WRC subaru wrx....They are local and

Here is a screen dump from cad I posted on the Galant vr4 forum....

Cheers
Larry

 

[PaulPDX]

Well.. I still haven't seen any useful info for those who need suspension now.

H&R used to use Bilstein dampers, correct. What I had on the VW were Bilsteins. Now H&R is offering coilovers for VWs with adjustable dampers made by Koni.

I am familiar with Sachs. The stock shocks on the GTI were made by Sachs.

AGX's? no way I would ever put money on a set of AGXs. I've ridden in a 2G with AGXs. Pure crap. Damping is way too weak for springs rated any higher than stock. Might as well be riding a pogo stick. Granted, the roads around the SF bay area aren't great due to lack of maintenance and eathquake tolerances (expansion joints with wide gaps). But Koni Sports did a far better job at soaking up the bumps.

 

[3literpwr]

http://www.hotbits.org/

konis aint bad for the street but I would buy something else first......

 

[PaulPDX]

No applications for the 1Ga. So, for me it isn't useful.

 

[3literpwr]

No applications for the 1Ga. So, for me it isn't useful.

Dont they have a VR4 application?

 

[PaulPDX]

Are VR4 suspensions exactly the same as 1G?

 

[3literpwr]

Are VR4 suspensions exactly the same as 1G?

No they are a tad bit longer....But the hotbits unit should be sligtly shorter than stock vr4 as is the case with most after market setups.... IT will FIT.... unless you plan to lower your car 3"
then there may be a bit of a problem....

As for mounting points they are the same.... Shit evo 1,2,3,4,5,6, struts fit the 1g.... its the rear shock on the 4,5,6,7,8 that are a bit different......


larry

 

[PaulPDX]

Interesting. Thanks for the info. Would the HotBits VR4 coilovers allow any amount of lowering at all though? sacrificing travel just for the sake of using it woulnd't make any sense.

 

[3literpwr]

Interesting. Thanks for the info. Would the HotBits VR4 coilovers allow any amount of lowering at all though? sacrificing travel just for the sake of using it woulnd't make any sense.

Im sure you could lower them quite a bit... Most likey beyond the point of good handling and into the relm of accelerated balljoint where and messing with the cars CG..............
Too low is no good........I will email them for the body length of strut.......


Larry

 

[PaulPDX]

Yah... I wouldn't lower any more than 1.5" from stock.