Death of the mighty 4g63.....UPDATE...

[95TalonTsiAWDam]

Well guys, it is official...she's pretty much dead. My buddy got a chance to replace the Crank Angle Sensor for me this morning. He called to tell me that it cranked right up, but it was knocking like a sledge hammer on a door. So out with it I say...
To those reading this who don't already know...it is a 95 Talon Tsi AWD manual with 80k bought from a car auction for litttle to nothing.

My questions:
1) JDM engines (with 40-50k), are they the same engine as we have? aka if I were going back to stock (7bolt) would it be a direct drop-in?
a) Don't worry, I want a 6 bolt.
b) So is there any year better than the other or will any 90-94 engine work?
2) Where do I find one?

My goal is a daily driver with the ability for 12s or low 13s...I know I need injectors(550 or 650?), ability to adjust fuel and tune(probably DSMlink or other) FMIC if above 15psi, thinking EvoIII16g for turbo, bigger fuel pump (255 or 190?), BOV, 1g CAS to 2g conversion, boost controller, downpipe, exhaust, gauges.

On converting the 2g harness to read the 1g CAS, which method is better? 1st or 2nd method? http://www.roadraceengineering.com/1gcasin2g.htm

I'm sure I can think of more questions in a bit...

I want to do this right the first time so any input will be greatly appreciated.

 

[~laser_craver~]

sbr is selling rebuilt 1g long blocks for really good price... stage 1 has ss vavles 3 angle vavle job ross pistons and 1g big rods.... the head on stage 1 flows 10% better then stock according to sales rep

slowboyracing.com you find em there

ryan

 

[dsmpower1]

hey , definately use method 2 for the cas. i used it and i had very little to no experience with wiring and it worked like a charm.

 

[dsmpower1]

oh yeah , but the only problem with using method 2 is you will have to invert the firing order of injectors. i had someone else do that part of it so im not sure how difficult it is. it tells more about it on road race. if you use method 1 than you are not required to invert injectors.

 

[95TalonTsiAWDam]

oh yeah , but the only problem with using method 2 is you will have to invert the firing order of injectors. i had someone else do that part of it so im not sure how difficult it is. it tells more about it on road race. if you use method 1 than you are not required to invert injectors.

Any problem with random CEL ?
What about modifing the 2G mount as I read somewhere...is that the only modification necessary?

Thanks for the info...

 

[sickfast2ndgen]

hey , definately use method 2 for the cas. i used it and i had very little to no experience with wiring and it worked like a charm.

agreed.

oh yeah , but the only problem with using method 2 is you will have to invert the firing order of injectors. i had someone else do that part of it so im not sure how difficult it is.

changing the firing order of the injectors is not big deal. i can't seem to find the article now, but if i remember right you just move the pins one slot counter clockwise and it's money.

Any problem with random CEL ?
What about modifing the 2G mount as I read somewhere...is that the only modification necessary?

You will most likely have the random misfire CEL, check road race and magnus motorsports on how to fix it. as far as 2g mounts, i guess you're talking about motor mounts. the only weird thing is that you have to hack up the 6 bolt timing cover to get the 2g driver's side motor mount to fit. no other modification to the motor mounts is required.

 

[BrokenTsi]

www.overbore.com

He sells 6 bolt longblocks modified for 2g's at a really good price.

Long blocks are complete with waterpump, timing belt, etc.

His site is new, so its not finished, but there is a phone number, definitely call him.

 

[sweet97]

Well guys, it is official...she's pretty much dead. My buddy got a chance to replace the Crank Angle Sensor for me this morning. He called to tell me that it cranked right up, but it was knocking like a sledge hammer on a door. So out with it I say...
To those reading this who don't already know...it is a 95 Talon Tsi AWD manual with 80k bought from a car auction for litttle to nothing.

My questions:
1) JDM engines (with 40-50k), are they the same engine as we have? aka if I were going back to stock (7bolt) would it be a direct drop-in?
a) Don't worry, I want a 6 bolt.
b) So is there any year better than the other or will any 90-94 engine work?
2) Where do I find one?

My goal is a daily driver with the ability for 12s or low 13s...I know I need injectors(550 or 650?), ability to adjust fuel and tune(probably DSMlink or other) FMIC if above 15psi, thinking EvoIII16g for turbo, bigger fuel pump (255 or 190?), BOV, 1g CAS to 2g conversion, boost controller, downpipe, exhaust, gauges.

On converting the 2g harness to read the 1g CAS, which method is better? 1st or 2nd method? http://www.roadraceengineering.com/1gcasin2g.htm

I'm sure I can think of more questions in a bit...

I want to do this right the first time so any input will be greatly appreciated.

Go with 650cc inj's, they will work with an EVO 16G and also a 50 trim should you upgrade sometime(don't say no-i did and got the 50 anyways!!) get the Walbro 255 and the fullthrottlespeed.com bolt on AFPR for only $145. Also allows room to grow and the AFPR adds a tuning tool. 1G BOV's are fine=-you can get the dejontool.com BOV seal kit to boost over 20 PSI if you like. Go with a 3" exhaust. I got a 2.5" SS Buschur mandrel exhaust that I am trying to sell so I can go to a 3" system. Mark

 

[SpoOLxExO]

Well guys, it is official...she's pretty much dead. My buddy got a chance to replace the Crank Angle Sensor for me this morning. He called to tell me that it cranked right up, but it was knocking like a sledge hammer on a door. So out with it I say...
To those reading this who don't already know...it is a 95 Talon Tsi AWD manual with 80k bought from a car auction for litttle to nothing.

Well, I am sorry to hear of your failure, but good news is on the way!

My questions:
1) JDM engines (with 40-50k), are they the same engine as we have? aka if I were going back to stock (7bolt) would it be a direct drop-in?

YES

a) Don't worry, I want a 6 bolt.
b) So is there any year better than the other or will any 90-94 engine work?

You want a 90-92 engine. These are the 6-bolts. 93-94 had smaller rods and 7-bolt flywheel.

2) Where do I find one?

Believe it or not, many "JDM" importers have good engines with a start-up warrenty!

My goal is a daily driver with the ability for 12s or low 13s...
-I know I need injectors(550 or 650?),

550's would be perfect for your goal, but I hate buying things twice, and your gunna run DSMlink so get the biggest injectors you can.

AFAIK, ALL FIC injectors from 550-850 are the same price. Since you can dial in any injector w/ DSMlink you can never go too big.

Fuel milage will not change on part throttle with DSMlink and huge inj!

-ability to adjust fuel and tune(probably DSMlink or other)

There ya go!

-FMIC if above 15psi,

I would get a FMIC anyways, your car will love you for it!

-thinking EvoIII16g for turbo

The EVOIII is a killer Street turbo, that will knock out alot of "fast" cars. It makes 400HP at around 24-26 psi on a stock 6-bolt. Also spools just like a stock 14b turbo. (2800rpm)
Get it, and forget about these "V-trims", 50trims, yadda yadda. You don't need a big turbo to go fast.

-bigger fuel pump (255 or 190?)

If you get a regulator, then yes the 255 is the only choice.
The 190 is an attempt to have a drop-in pump that won't over-run the stock fuel pressure regulator.
Unfortunately, this is not the cae as I have a 190 in my GVR4 right now. Before I put my AFPR on the base pressure was 51psi! The base pressure will need to be in the 40-43 psi base range.
But 100 each for whatever pump you get might as well 255 it up.

-BOV

1g Crushed BOV will hold close to 25psi, I have one it works great. So a BOV isn't "Needed" per say, but your 2g will not be good at all so anything is an upgrade. Just don;t lose your shirt over that "Miracle" BOV that costs $400...

-1g CAS to 2g conversion,

Uh huh

-boost controller,

-downpipe,

-exhaust,

-gauges.

MBC, whatever boost guage you like, 2.5" turbo back will be more than enough for mid 11 sec blasts. Plus you won't lose your mind at 3000rpm cruising on the freeway, like on a droning 3" system.

On converting the 2g harness to read the 1g CAS, which method is better? 1st or 2nd method? http://www.roadraceengineering.com/1gcasin2g.htm

I'm sure I can think of more questions in a bit...

I want to do this right the first time so any input will be greatly appreciated.

I'm sure we can help you on doing things right! Good luck!

 

[Spidey]

as far as 2g mounts, i guess you're talking about motor mounts. the only weird thing is that you have to hack up the 6 bolt timing cover to get the 2g driver's side motor mount to fit. no other modification to the motor mounts is required.

The mount needs to be shaved to clear the water pump as well.
http://www.magnusmotorsports.com/images/1g2g/1g2g02.jpg

 

[2bar]

Yes you will have to shave the front motor mount for it to clear the water pump on the 6 bolt motor. Also use and 1g radiator lower hose so the shifter will clear. If you go to magnusmotorsports.com it has a full set of instructions on swaping the 6 bolt. RRE and magnus motor sports make a cam angle harnes so you do not have to do any wiring just plug it in. You also do not have to change injector firing order just the spark plug firing order. change the 1/4 and 2/3 wires. I experenced the cell problem, if you get dsmlink you will not have to worry about that. If you do not get dsmlink will will experence a miss fire in the engine. that is what is experenced. Magnus motorsports has instructions on how to fix this.

 

[Spidey]

Please be a little more specific when you post.

You only need the 1g radiator hose if you use the a 1g head/water pipe.

The CAS wiring takes a total of 15 minutes and that is being careful, no need for a $70 harness unless you don't have the 1g CAS harness to begin with.

You will want to swap plug wire 1 with 2, and 3 with 4.

 

[sickfast2ndgen]

The mount needs to be shaved to clear the water pump as well.
http://www.magnusmotorsports.com/images/1g2g/1g2g02.jpg

ah that's right. i forgot about doing that all together. it's been a while since i've had my 6-bolt outside the car (and that's a good thing!). but cutting up that piece is nothing that a dremel with some super cut off discs and a little bit of patience won't tackle.

 

[95TalonTsiAWDam]

ok ok...doesn't sound hard at all so far.
If I didn't use the 1g head, I would have to machine the 2g head to fit the 1g stud bolts correct? Also, I thought the 1g head was better flowing anyway.
The 2g throttle body is larger right? Will that bolt on to the 1g intake or will I need to port to fit?
Will need a/the 6bolt AWD flywheel to bolt to the tranny...
So DSMLink will allow me to remove the misfire code altogether correct?

Someone mentioned SBR had a deal on engines...maybe since they are rebuilt that is a good deal, but for my goals wouldn't a stock JDM with low miles (<50K) be a better deal? I can't afford a SBR rebuilt, I need a deal (who doesn't) or the wife will have my head!

And finally, my biggest and foremost problem, where do I find an engine......I have done a search and found many places, but does anybody have an personal experience with a business(and got a deal ). Should I do ebay(kinda iffy)? I'd like a crank warrenty and a good price and most of all not get burned...

Later...I better get back to work...and thanks for everything so far guys

 

[sickfast2ndgen]

If I didn't use the 1g head, I would have to machine the 2g head to fit the 1g stud bolts correct? Also, I thought the 1g head was better flowing anyway.

You are "supposed" to get the holes for the head studs enlarged slightly. however, that's not to say an untouched 2g head wont go on with ARPs and no machining. don't ask me how I know this...

There had been some discussion about which head flows better many times before. there is no question the 1g head ports have a much greater volume. but volume is only one part (think of air velocity, port shape, combustion chamber shape and the swirling effects needed to atomize the fuel). for that reason, i'll leave the question of which one is "better" to people who know more about thermodynamics and flow analysis.

The 2g throttle body is larger right? Will that bolt on to the 1g intake or will I need to port to fit?

wrong. the 1g is 60mm, I believe, and the 2g is around 53mm. the 2g throttle body elbow is much bigger, though. also, the 1g/2g TBs are swappable, but if you put a 1g TB on a 2g mani, you should probably port it out to match the gasket.

Will need a/the 6bolt AWD flywheel to bolt to the tranny...
So DSMLink will allow me to remove the misfire code altogether correct?

yes and yes. I don't have DSMlink, but remember reading time and time again that the code can be disabled. you may want to do some reading on DSMlink to find all its capabilities.

 

[RavenX]

The EVOIII is a killer Street turbo, that will knock out alot of "fast" cars. It makes 400HP at around 24-26 psi on a stock 6-bolt. Also spools just like a stock 14b turbo. (2800rpm)
Get it, and forget about these "V-trims", 50trims, yadda yadda. You don't need a big turbo to go fast.

Unless you have a 2.4l theres no way the evo will spool at 2800 like the 14b. Evo's start spooling at 3200 and get full boost by 3500 and if u have cams add 200 more rpms

 

[95TalonTsiAWDam]

So far I have called about 20+ places and have found 5 that have any instock. Of those, the best price/most inclusive deal was for $1325.00 shipped which included engine with all accessories, intake, turbo man, turbo, injectors, fuel rail.
What do you guys think...is that a good price?

Later,
MM

 

[evolvingGS-t]

Dude, I have the EVO3 and it spools a hell of a lot quicker than 3200. But of course I said that it depends on the weather where I am at. Generally apeaking though, it is around 2800-3000.

 

[Spidey]

So far I have called about 20+ places and have found 5 that have any instock. Of those, the best price/most inclusive deal was for $1325.00 shipped which included engine with all accessories, intake, turbo man, turbo, injectors, fuel rail.
What do you guys think...is that a good price?

Later,
MM

That is going to be a used engine which you still know nothing about, whether they guarantee it has 40k miles and is in good condition or not.

My advice would be to find someone selling a 6-bolt block/crank/rods(I picked exactly those parts up for $150). Your next step is to take it to a machine shop(ask your local DSM board for suggestions) and have everything checked out, and then if all is good have them rebuild it using the parts of your choice. I had mine rebuilt with new Topline pistons and rings, and Clevite bearings for $600. That price included everything a typical rebuild entails, plus the pistons. So my total cost for the motor itself was $750, this is as close to new as you're going to get, and $500 cheaper than what you were quoted(granted you don't get all those accessories, but you don't need them). I then re-used my 2g head, had the head stud holes drilled out to 12mm($20). Next I bought all new timing belt parts and gaskets, I think it was $3-400 something for all that stuff. After that you're pretty much ready for the swap, you will still need a 1g CAS, 1g lower timing cover, and some other random stuff, but the rest isn't really a big deal.

That's just the route I took, you can go whichever way you want. I just don't advise spending $13-1400 on a used motor with unknown mileage and condition, when you could have a FRESH one for that much.

 

[SpoOLxExO]

Unless you have a 2.4l theres no way the evo will spool at 2800 like the 14b. Evo's start spooling at 3200 and get full boost by 3500 and if u have cams add 200 more rpms

Get out of here with that...Whats your proof of that besides benchracing?

Just like you did for 30 pages about your V-trim turbo...

The EVOIII whips more ass than you can handle, apparently. So quit knocking it just cause your turbo's supplier company got you thinking you got the best turbo in the world...

Don't rehash a turbo comparison, when a guy is trying to get a 6-bolt in his 2g.


95TalonTSiAWDam- I have had personally good experiences with street imports.com actually. I know they have a huge ebay partaking, but I have ordered a longblock from them for 1500 w/ the tranny (Sold it for 300) and I was shocked as to how clean the oilpan/head areas were.

I did the B/S removal, and found that the rotating assembly was even cleaner!

Any "JDM" importer is gunna be a good source, like I said. Nippon-motors, JDMimporters, JDMengines.com, etc...

All of em have similar warrenties for start-up and such, its just a matter of paying the price your more comfortable with!

Good luck!