Cyclone Actuation.

[BIRDCLAWTSi]

Here is the way i would like to activate my cyclone. I have one question regarding the RPM activated switch/BC Solinoid. When the set RPM is reached, The signal will be sent to the BCS, What i am wondering is, Does the BCS snap open , Then close? Does the RPM switch only energize the solinoid at the specific RPM? Or does it stay open until i drop below the set RPM? From what i ahve read, I do not want full pressure on the actuator diaphragm. I also have no experience with RPM Switches. Ideally, The BCS Will be energized briefly, Opening the secondaries, But not supplying steady boost the entire duration. Any insight would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

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[jeyventura]

im interested in this idea as well lets see what the seniors have to say

 

[ramsack]

it depends if you got a window switch or a plain rpm activated switch. a window switch will activate only in a certain rpm range.

you need a normal rpm switch. you should actually get a large canister with a check valve to store vacuum, much like the brake booster does, so that you can open the butterflies under vacuum or boost.

 

[toofast82]

You may want to use the FPR solenoid instead. It is known to work and I have never seen anyone use the bcs
The actuator on the side of the intake sees vacuum all the time, when it is activated, the vacuum is cut off from the actuator, opening the butterflies. Note that they are not intended to see any type of manifold pressure, and will fail.
If you can't find the original white canister, then there is a check valve you can get at a Dodge dealer that will work for ~$10.
I tried both methods and was happier with actuating it via a modified wastegate actuator. Plus it was simple and reliable
I didn't use an rpm switch though, I programmed the ecu to activate it

 

[ramsack]

having the butterflies only open in boost is only using half of what it is meant for. take a look here at how toyota did it. doing this without dyno tuning is also pointless, as you're just guessing when the optimal rpm is to open the valves. the toyotas also change the opening point based on load, so it will open at different points if you are on the gas a lot or not. i'd imagine that's the way the evos ran it as well.

 

[toofast82]

The actuator operation was actually very smooth and no hiccups at all.
I don't need a dyno to tell me I gained tons of lowend torque and mid-range power, the gains were apparent
Trust me, the thought of going back to the rpm activated setup never crossed my mind once.
Actually I believe 94awdcoupe has done plenty of dyno work on the wga/cyclone. His personal dyno results speak for themselves that the cyclone has its value

 

[ramsack]

i never said the operation would be rough, and you assume i meant something crazy like vvtl-i or vtec kicking in. i also didn't say you would gain nothing by just leaving it open at a guessed point, but the point of putting mods on a car and tuning is not to make some power. tuning is for efficiency, not to just gain a little. i'm sure you could have made more power by dyno tuning this setup. it would have taken many hours to find the optimal positions of when the valves open. and as i said before, just having them open under boost is pointless. it will choke your car while using n/a power to not have them open after a certain rpm, so a load-based control would be necessary. the OP wanted insight and i'm giving him my insight.

 

[toofast82]

i also didn't say you would gain nothing by just leaving it open at a guessed point, but the point of putting mods on a car and tuning is not to make some power. tuning is for efficiency, not to just gain a little. .

The gains are FAR more than 5-10ft/lbs. Also the fuel economy is a very noticeable increase. My tune was on point, don't worry

i'm sure you could have made more power by dyno tuning this setup. .

I'm sure I probably could have made more power If I spent tons of hours and money tweaking the setup on any dyno. Every car could benefit from a little tweaking on a dyno if its never been on one, what's your point

it would have taken many hours to find the optimal positions of when the valves open. and as i said before, just having them open under boost is pointless. it will choke your car while using n/a power to not have them open after a certain rpm, so a load-based control would be necessary. .

Trust me, there was nothing pointless about installing it. I knew how to drive my car to avoid the "n/a" situration you're saying that would maybe occur at very high rpms and not under boost.
I'm kind of confused on how you're trying to tell me how a setup is going to work out that i've actually tried and you've pondered over.

The jdm ecu was activated via rpm only, there is no load factoring. Selected rpm hits and vacuum is cut off from the butterfly actuator.

the OP wanted insight and i'm giving him my insight.

I'm quoting experience, It works period.......

 

[ramsack]

you are missing my point 100% i guess.

you don't go buy a big turbo and build everything to handle it and only run 10 psi. you don't go to tune on a dyno and have them cut timing wayy back. so you know the inner workings of the jdm ecu to just state that it's rpm only? the ecu has the capability to control anything based on load (tps and rpm). jdm has always been more cutting edge, and for an evo, something mitsu used to race, why would they not optimize a system like this for load? maybe i'm different, whereas if i spend money on something, and if it was this, i would take the time to do it PROPERLY and how it was designed and do it by load. as for driving around a system, why? to me that phrase means it lessens drivability. don't say i don't have experience with this just because it's on a 4g63 vs a 3sgte. it's the same damn thing, different company. toyota raced their 3sgte celicas in the wrc too, so it's not very different.

i'm not saying the OP should go all out on this and do crazy r&d, but at least do a vacuum storage system so he can have it open under vac or boost.

 

[toofast82]

you are missing my point 100% i guess.

Sure man, I guess I understand what you're saying about PERFECTLY tuned, blah blah.
I apologize if I didn't go the dyno to get definitive back to back results for everyone If I had gone to and spent hundreds of dollars on all these concrete results for one mod, then it wouldn't be a budget $35 dollar mod anymore
Are we going to have a conversation about MBT next?
I have thousands of miles of testing in all different scenarios, I wasn't sleeping while driving the car

I paid $35shipped for the intake and used an old actuator I had laying around. On my last dsm, if I had to choose between taking the cams out or the cyclone, i would have taken the cams out of the car


I wouldn't be surprised if the jdm ecu references a specifice minimum tps voltage possibly before it looks up the MAS load figure. Never bothered to study the hex code exactly on the jdm actuation and could care less honestly

In conclusion to what I have to say in this thread, from my experience, the Cyclone Intake with modded WGA get from toofast82

 

[BIRDCLAWTSi]

Sure man, I guess I understand what you're saying about PERFECTLY tuned, blah blah.
I apologize if I didn't go the dyno to get definitive back to back results for everyone If I had gone to and spent hundreds of dollars on all these concrete results for one mod, then it wouldn't be a budget $35 dollar mod anymore
Are we going to have a conversation about MBT next?
I have thousands of miles of testing in all different scenarios, I wasn't sleeping while driving the car

I paid $35shipped for the intake and used an old actuator I had laying around. On my last dsm, if I had to choose between taking the cams out or the cyclone, i would have taken the cams out of the car


I wouldn't be surprised if the jdm ecu references a specifice minimum tps voltage possibly before it looks up the MAS load figure. Never bothered to study the hex code exactly on the jdm actuation and could care less honestly

In conclusion to what I have to say in this thread, from my experience, the Cyclone Intake with modded WGA get from toofast82

Thanks for the input, I dont have a FPS and cant seem to find one either. I do have the canister, That is what i will be using.

I had the cyclone on my car for a few months, But never actuated it. I put a regular check valve in line to see how it feels with the secondaries closed, I swear it is a night and day difference, Faster spool and immediate throttle responce, With the secondaries open, It is essentially the same as a 1g.

I took it off to port the shorter runners(High end), And clean up the casting, Also to dis-assemble the butterflies and see if the seal is the same as the 91 and up shaft seals. It's not, The seal is quite a bit smaller, I have never seen a 1990 throttle body shaft seal , But i heard one is smaller than the other and was curious if it would fit.

I am looking forward to getting it back on, I need to gather the switch and solinoid.

 

[romeen]

You need a solenoid that is normally open to allow vacuum through and then closes when power is applied. AFAIK, the FPS is the only one on our cars that does this. As mentioned, the actuator should never see boost, hence the check valve/vacuum canister. The rpm switch should stay energized (keeping the solenoid closed) for the entire time that you are above the set rpm point.

As far as the optimal point to have the solenoid activated Mitsubishi has already done the work for us. With stock cams and a 14b 4100 rpm is the magic number. But from what I've read this activation point works well with the 16G as well.

If you have a pick and pull nearby you can probably use any solenoid from any car that you can blow through when no power is being applied.