Custom Ram Intake Think Tank

[brads]

Yep, I didnt get his post until after I sent mine.

DCJ98GST, The numbers and theory for ram air all look good. Its usually the reality that fails. How much pressure will you get feeding it off of the duct on the passenger side front of the car? You would get the most pressure from dead on center, as you go to the edge of the front, there isnt as much pressure. About the only way to know for sure how much pressure you will get, is to put the setup together, and measure the intake pressure.

Even with a big FMIC to cool the air down(as well as big intake piping, 50 trim turbo etc), there was a very substantial gain in airflow by going to a cold air intake. Well, not cold, I am in socal. But close to ambient air temp intake anyhow. My intake air temps dropped anywhere from 20-40 degrees, and airflow shot up by an amount corresponding to the density change of the air.

Brad

Originally posted by workin_on_it
haha its funny because jdmawd just said it was a joke.

 

[DCJ98GST]

Originally posted by brads


How much pressure will you get feeding it off of the duct on the passenger side front of the car? You would get the most pressure from dead on center, as you go to the edge of the front, there isnt as much pressure.

Your right an intake mounted in the front would be the best and the most high pressure area on the car. I think Turbo magazine did an article on this called "eliminating negative boost" they actually tested different areas of the front of the car. There pressures on the front at 80 mph were something like 1.75 psi (if I remember correctly), which were more than my numbers. There still should be some pressure on the side though.

As far as my pressures, (they are in my previous posts) I used standard calculation as modeled by the pitot tube experiments.

This is a discription if you are interested:

http://www.svce.ac.in/~msubbu/FM-WebBook/Unit-III/PitotTube.htm

Or if you want to calc them yourself:

http://www.lmnoeng.com/Flow/bernoulli.htm

Yes this is all theory and may not work as well in real practice, but I think it is worth looking into.

 

[LaserRST]

Another cool thing you can do with those numers...


PR (before ram air) = (18+1+14.5)/(14.5 - 0.5) = 2.4 PR

After Ram air = (x+1+14.5)/(14.5+1) = 2.4

Lets do it this way to see what kind of boost gains we see at the same PR and shaft speeds.

(x+15.5)/15.5=2.4

x+15.5 = 37.2

x=21.7

Could that be right!!? 3.7 psi at the same shaft speed and pressure ratio as you were previously running... wholly smokes time to upgrade my injectors. I think this would prove the benefits arent really in the intake temps since that is a variable that will never be constant. This gain however proves the point in ram air. Though, i think psia is actually 14.7 at sea level and the pressure loss across the intercooler is subtracted. Never-the-less, ram air is good...

 

[96AWDTSI]

Thats my Talon. I will make it a true "ram air" set up soon. For now, it just brings fresh air to the filter. Check my gallery for more pics.

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[draculia]

i have a 2g, obviously, with the gm maf in the upper ic pipe. my CAI starts off like a normal 3" vpc intake, but it has an extension on it that goes through the stock upper ic pipe routing hole, and that's where my 9" long k&n is

 

[98eclipseRS]

ya 96 you have a great set up, I saw it awhile ago on talk and tried to think of ways that you could make it actual ram air. I remeber in the thread abut it you said you didnt have time to see if there are any gains. Have you had chance to yet? and are the gains noticable? it looks like it would help alot.

 

[96AWDTSI]

I should get to the track this month, I will run it opened & closed to see the difference.

 

[bigfoot]

Spooling difference too, remember the GM MAF discussions, turbos hate to pull air so even a little positive pressure should lower spool time.

 

[focusedrage]

holy crap i have a great idea that may work...

on late 2g talons, or even erly ones there is a definite indent where the talon logo is. much bigger on the later modles... althouh? 96 did you change yours?

anyway, why not cut that hole open and route some piping over there. it would be dead on center and could be made to actualy ram air. you would have to be carful so as not to impeed the radiaor (and it would need too be a sealed box behid it) so much... but man i think its worth a shot

 

[96AWDTSI]

I have the 97 bumper on mine. I think it will be pretty easy to make mine a true ram air set up, because the air is entering right at my air filter, so all I need to do is replace my open air K&N with an enclosed air filter, & seal it to the headlight.

 

[bosljeff]

My computer is slow as hell, so please look at my gallery. I basically created an intake "horn" in the air dam of my bumper that is routed with 3" inch hose that ends up at the K&N blowing the "rammed" air onto it.

 

[bosljeff]

Or I could have just posted the link:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/gallery/showgallery.php?ppuser=13014&cat=500

 

[Defiant]

The cooler air is good -even if the compressor will heat it up- but you won't be getting enough "ram" for the engine to feel this side of Bonneville.

 

[greyforestgst]

here's mine

 

[focusedrage]

my friend showed me this, and i still think it is nonsense for our turbo aplications, because while perhaps we do get no compression from a ram air, i think there still is benegit fromt eh incresed velocity of enterign air

http://www.vetteguru.com/ramair/

 

[1gE.T.]

On my 91 TSI I thought about doing a 92 light conversion, leaving the 91 hood on, and just putting some of that nice grill stuff over the hole where the pop up head lights used to be. It allow more air to get the the filter, but I need to have something on the other hole to make it functional. Maybe I could have a hose similar to greyforestgst's and run it to the intercooler.

 

[LaserRST]

Originally posted by focusedrage
my friend showed me this, and i still think it is nonsense for our turbo aplications, because while perhaps we do get no compression from a ram air, i think there still is benegit fromt eh incresed velocity of enterign air

http://www.vetteguru.com/ramair/

Thats a nice link. I would definately have to look that up, I have a fluid dynamics book here... need to check his info. Still a lil skeptical about the application, but I can almost understand his statement. Thanks...

 

[focusedrage]

This is the argument we had, pretty rough, but i think its funny cause of what its about, I'm The Thunder Wang, Enjoy:


(00:23:19) Chris: did you know that if you had a giant unrestriced cone at the front of your car going staight into the intake of your engine, like a crazy ram air system, going 300mph, you would experience little to no increase in engine power over a normal performance intake at normal speeds
(00:24:16) The Thunder Wang: that makes no sense... and i know thats not true for turbos at least
(00:24:48) Chris: ah ha! now see, we encounter crazy intuitional opposition of crazy nonsense fluid dynamics
(00:24:59) Chris: see, ram air is a myth
(00:25:05) Chris: it doesnt work
(00:25:07) Chris: AT ALL
(00:25:14) Chris: like, its a lie
(00:25:14) The Thunder Wang: thats wrong
(00:25:20) Chris: no no no, this is why
(00:25:25) The Thunder Wang: well at least inrubo aplications its wrong
(00:25:31) Chris: air flowing around the car is dynamic pressure
(00:25:37) Chris: turbo is static pressure
(00:25:42) The Thunder Wang: i dont know as much about na setups
(00:25:59) Chris: see turbos actually compress the air
(00:26:55) Chris: but in order to compress air in a ram air style intake, you would need not a cone, but a divergent intake with a thin front getting wider as it approched the manifold, and you would have to be going above half the speed of sound
(00:27:20) The Thunder Wang:
(00:27:21) The Thunder Wang: yes
(00:27:25) Chris: like, you know ram jet engines?
(00:27:27) The Thunder Wang: that is a ramjet
(00:27:31) Chris: yeah exactly
(00:27:32) The Thunder Wang: but listen
(00:27:36) Chris: they only work at high speeds
(00:27:46) The Thunder Wang: no your simply wrong / misinformed
(00:27:46) Chris: and ram air is claiming to do it at like 60mph
(00:27:50) Chris: im not
(00:27:56) Chris: its chemical sense
(00:28:04) The Thunder Wang: many a thread has been talkd about this
(00:28:10) Chris: thread???
(00:28:15) Chris: on the forum?
(00:28:16) The Thunder Wang: with the mods and the wismen gotten involved
(00:28:19) The Thunder Wang: like
(00:28:28) The Thunder Wang: bacasue there is flow of air
(00:29:23) Chris: no no no, see its the common confusion of dynamic and static pressure
(00:29:23) The Thunder Wang: gettign the air forced by the flow into soem sort of collector can actualy create a positive pressure enviroment which changest he pressure ratio of the turbo allowing more power
(00:29:34) The Thunder Wang: hold on
(00:29:49) Chris: seee nooo its impossible to compress air at lower then like 400mph with a cone of some sort
(00:30:30) The Thunder Wang: why is this?
(00:30:36) The Thunder Wang: your dumb
(00:30:36) Chris: see dynamic pressure is air flowing around something and exerting a force, static is the pressure of air inside a closed container
(00:30:39) Chris: NO IM NOT
(00:30:41) Chris: its soooo true
(00:30:56) The Thunder Wang: so you say it exerts a force
(00:31:00) The Thunder Wang: where on the frint of the car right?
(00:31:04) Chris: its a SMALL ass force
(00:31:31) The Thunder Wang: no
(00:31:40) The Thunder Wang: then who would car about drag coeficents
(00:31:57) Chris: you dont understand, I know its counter intuitive but under 400mph, air cannot break the moleculer force need to push the molecules together to get actual intake pressure above one atm
(00:32:02) The Thunder Wang: people are able to use this dynamic force to creat tones of downforce
(00:32:20) Chris: downforce has nothing to do with intake
(00:32:29) Chris: thats the bernulli principle
(00:32:42) Chris: and involves BOYANCY
(00:33:10) Chris: its a chemical fact
(00:33:24) The Thunder Wang: no, some downforce is created simply by having panals at an angle to the the flow
(00:33:26) The Thunder Wang: read thsi
(00:33:27) The Thunder Wang: My plan was to use the 2G stock sidemount opening to collect the air and distribute it to a closed air tight box that is located in the side mount area. Similar to the discriptions above. With this size opening you should get the following pressures:

30 mph = 0.25psi
60 mph = 0.75 psi
90 mph = 1.5 psi

But watch how much this affects your turbo efficiency:

Pressure ratio = PR

Say you are running 18 psi with a 16G turbo
intercooler restriction 1 psi
intake pressure before ram air = -0.5 psi
intake pressure at 90 mph after ram air = 1.5 - .5 psi = 1 psi
atm = 14.5

PR (before ram air) = (18+1+14.5)/(14.5 - 0.5) = 2.4 PR

PR (after ram air) = (18+1+14.5)/(14.5 + 1) = 2.16 PR

That is a pretty big difference.

On a 16G without the ram air you are out of the high efficiency island and the maximum shaft speed is at approx 135000 rpms.

To flow the same amount of air, with ram air you are now IN the efficient island AND shaft speed only needs to be at approx 120000 rpms TO FLOW THE SAME AMOUNT OF AIR !!!!!

Remember shaft speed is a good indicator of how hard your turbo is working and how much you are choking off the engine by running the boost.

This should be a great mod for highway driving.

(00:33:34) Chris: the force required to compress air is so large that only a compressor, or VERY high wind speeds can do this
(00:33:36) The Thunder Wang: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=68405
(00:33:38) The Thunder Wang: then this
(00:33:52) Chris: POX THAT IS A STUPID PERSON ON A FORUM
(00:34:07) Chris: FORUMS ARE NOT THE END OF ALL KNOWLEDGE
(00:34:18) Chris: things were discussed in ap chemistry
(00:34:32) Chris: its a fact
(00:34:32) Chris: thats bull shit math in that thread
(00:34:43) The Thunder Wang: well the dsm comunity is mor noigable then most
(00:34:53) The Thunder Wang: this is another roll effect
(00:35:09) Chris: NO IT IS NOT
(00:35:23) The Thunder Wang: your tryign to destory a differnt conscept
(00:35:23) Chris: its like the intial force of static friction
(00:35:34) The Thunder Wang: like i understand ramjets
(00:35:38) Chris: you just CANT compress air with windspeed under 400mph
(00:35:39) The Thunder Wang: but they compress the air
(00:35:45) Chris: AT VERY HIGH SPEED
(00:35:51) The Thunder Wang: a turbo compreses the air
(00:35:51) Chris: oh my god READ THIS
(00:36:17) Chris: http://www.vetteguru.com/ramair/
(00:36:27) The Thunder Wang: so the "ram air" is used to get cooler fresher, air into the turbo
(00:36:32) Chris: and the AP chem book only back this up
(00:36:46) Chris: the only thing that it does is get colder air
(00:36:53) Chris: there is NOOO pressure increase
(00:37:23) The Thunder Wang: make a giant cone
(00:37:38) The Thunder Wang: and put it in front of a fan
(00:38:03) The Thunder Wang: all the flow that the fan creats will go through a small hole
(00:38:11) The Thunder Wang: we are probly arguing aobut differnt thigns
(00:38:16) Chris: no we arent
(00:38:58) Chris: I am saying that you cant increase the pressure of your intake with even a giant cone and going 200mph
(00:39:16) Chris: and its TRUE, because the cylinders are a fixed space
(00:39:27) Chris: and AIR WILL NOT COMPRESS at those speeds
(00:39:56) The Thunder Wang: dude
(00:39:59) The Thunder Wang: veloctry
(00:40:05) Chris: what about it?
(00:40:10) The Thunder Wang: do you know anythign about how engien works
(00:40:13) Chris: I DO
(00:40:37) Chris: I should be asking you the same question
(00:40:39) The Thunder Wang: well they you realize as this report says that what a ram air does is increse the velocty but not the pressure
(00:40:47) Chris: no no no no
(00:41:22) Chris: the power of an engine has to do with the number of oxy molecules reacting
(00:41:28) Chris: you can only get a certain amount in at 1 atm
(00:41:52) Chris: turbochargers allow more
(00:42:23) Chris: like seriously, its true
(00:42:30) Chris: ask the hardest man
(00:42:38) Chris: we talked about simmilar things in AP chem
(00:42:48) The Thunder Wang: ill tell you one thing if you put a shirt on top of your carb, you would have less power then if you had noiflter at all
(00:42:59) The Thunder Wang: we are arguing about differnt thigns
(00:43:01) Chris: thats restiction pox
(00:43:10) The Thunder Wang: exactly
(00:43:19) Chris: if we are arguing about different things then what are YOU saynig
(00:43:38) The Thunder Wang: turbo chargers may compress air, but that air needs to come from somewhere
(00:43:47) The Thunder Wang: the faster you can get the air to the turbo the better
(00:43:53) The Thunder Wang: thuse a velocity
(00:43:54) The Thunder Wang: stack
(00:43:59) The Thunder Wang: convergin
(00:44:03) Chris: pox its like having a small line and a long line, with the rate of people getting through the same rate
(00:44:12) The Thunder Wang: no its not
(00:44:15) Chris: the club fills up at the same rate
(00:44:31) Chris: all liessss
(00:44:50) The Thunder Wang: so a ram for a turbo or na is worthwile, while it may not increse the pressure it alows for velocity
(00:45:04) Chris: thats nonsense!
(00:45:35) The Thunder Wang: no
(00:45:40) Chris: if you mean by velocity, the speed at which the air enters the engine , then you are SOREly mistaken
(00:45:49) The Thunder Wang: so your right now refutign velocity stak
(00:45:51) The Thunder Wang: s
(00:46:16) Chris: Im refuting ANYthing that tries to claim power increases by funnling air at speeds less then 400mph
(00:46:36) The Thunder Wang: i supose you are also refuting all the claims of power increses that people have had
(00:47:13) Chris: there are so many variables in the fluid dynamics, it probably is just a less restrictive set up
(00:47:20) The Thunder Wang: i gues your also refutign the use of brake ducts on f1 cars
(00:47:22) Chris: and could be acheived at 0mph
(00:47:48) Chris: dude, you obviously STILL dont understand the differentce between static and dynamic pressure
(00:48:05) Chris: thats blowing dust off a disk, this is trying to put more air into a sealed space
(00:48:18) The Thunder Wang: also when you have a scoop on big dragsters its becasue it puts flow where the carbs can get it
(00:48:29) The Thunder Wang: its not a sealed space
(00:48:36) Chris: ENGINE ARE SEALED
(00:48:41) The Thunder Wang: thus you dont understand engine dynamics
(00:48:47) Chris: otherwise how could there be compression pox
(00:48:53) The Thunder Wang: engine is constaly sucking in air
(00:49:00) The Thunder Wang: the point of a turbo is to put in mor air
(00:49:04) Chris: when the Intake valve is open
(00:49:07) Chris: Yeah I know
(00:49:18) Chris: and it acheves that by increasing static pressure
(00:49:25) The Thunder Wang: those open so many times that it is not sealed for mor then a little time
(00:50:06) The Thunder Wang: its only foolish to make your claims having read one site, afterall there are so many vaiables
(00:50:21) The Thunder Wang: there are 3rd harmonics
(00:50:22) Chris: no no no, this is culmination of chemical and physical knowledge
(00:50:34) The Thunder Wang: senior in highschool
(00:50:34) Chris: its chemically impossible
(00:50:42) Chris: and physically impossible
(00:51:04) Chris: so i guess ram air breaks the laws of physics and commonly held chemical properties then...
(00:51:17) Chris: wow, I had no idea that ram air was so technically advanced
(00:51:32) Chris: we will have to change all the text books now
(00:52:07) The Thunder Wang: dude you jump on bandwagons
(00:52:20) Chris: yes, the bandwagon of TRUTH
(00:52:21) The Thunder Wang: im not sayign that ram air works
(00:52:38) Chris: huh?
(00:52:45) The Thunder Wang: im sayign that anything to increse the amount of air movign toward a turbo or a thirsty intake is good
(00:52:56) Chris: it doesnt increase the AMOUNT
(00:53:01) Chris: because the pressure is the same
(00:53:14) Chris: same number of molecules
(00:53:17) Chris: the air slows domn
(00:53:19) Chris: down
(00:53:23) The Thunder Wang: is it exaclty the same
(00:53:27) The Thunder Wang: you could count them
(00:53:27) Chris: beacuse it cant compress the other molecules
(00:53:31) Chris: YES
(00:54:07) The Thunder Wang: ok
(00:54:17) The Thunder Wang: well
(00:54:26) The Thunder Wang: why arnt cars flat on the front?
(00:54:38) Chris: pox... dynamic pressure
(00:55:11) Chris: object in a fluid is totally different from internal forces and pressures
(00:56:17) Chris: theres no arguing this
(00:56:37) Chris: chemistry
(00:56:42) Chris: TRUTH
(00:58:17) The Thunder Wang: bah
(00:58:23) The Thunder Wang: you are wrong on one thing
(00:58:38) The Thunder Wang: which is all that i was arguign anyway
(00:58:51) Chris: oh yeah?
(00:58:57) Chris: and what is that
(00:59:20) The Thunder Wang: a piston moves up and down correct?
(00:59:26) Chris: yup
(00:59:51) The Thunder Wang: it moves down one in for times to take in air?
(00:59:59) Chris: yup
(01:00:38) The Thunder Wang: engines do excert a small amount of power to do this, cause it has to suck air through the valve, a restriction corect?
(01:00:58) Chris: yup
(01:01:50) The Thunder Wang: now turbos solve this becaue they "ram" 16 psi into the intake plenum and as soon as that valve opens the air flows to the area of low pressure the system?
(01:01:52) The Thunder Wang: correct?
(01:01:59) The Thunder Wang: not system
(01:02:01) The Thunder Wang: piston
(01:02:03) Chris: you know the vavle actually has to be small, otherwise it wouldnt be able to suck enough air into it, it would require too much power
(01:02:33) Chris: no no no, it doesnt have to do with that, it has to do with number of air molecules
(01:03:00) Chris: and at higer pressures, the mols of oxygen are higer, and thus, more gas can be introduced and more power can be created
(01:03:11) The Thunder Wang: now turbos solve this becaue they "ram" 16 psi into the intake plenum and as soon as that valve opens the air flows to the area of low pressure the system?
(01:03:36) The Thunder Wang: the piston no longer has to suck
(01:03:47) Chris: I suppose so
(01:03:54) The Thunder Wang: but its a trade off cause the exhaust has to push the exhaust wheel
(01:03:59) Chris: right
(01:04:04) The Thunder Wang: now consider a turbo
(01:04:34) Chris: wait, you started this by saying I was wrong/misconcieved about something...
(01:04:46) Chris: i havent been talking about turbos really... so what are you getting at
(01:04:55) Chris: I know how a turbo works
(01:05:41) The Thunder Wang: how does a turbo work? well the exhaust spins the turbine an it causes the compressor whieel to suck in air and compress it, keep in mind that it has to suck in alot of air, to get that many psi, that is many cubic feet of regualr air to make one of 16psi air?
(01:05:44) The Thunder Wang: this is ture
(01:06:11) Chris: yes yes
(01:06:17) Chris: I know how a turbo works
(01:06:25) The Thunder Wang: thus the air has to flow into a turbo faster then it is expelled
(01:06:36) The Thunder Wang: why a inled it bigger then the outlet
(01:07:26) The Thunder Wang: so the more velocity the air has moving toward the turbo
(01:07:44) The Thunder Wang: the less the turbo has to work inorder to suck it in
(01:07:53) Chris: no no no.... see you still arent grasping the different types of pressure
(01:08:03) The Thunder Wang: its not pressure
(01:08:11) Chris: the air has to slow DOWN inorder to be compressed anyway
(01:08:22) The Thunder Wang: yes
(01:08:24) Chris: so its like the line example I gave
(01:08:27) The Thunder Wang: moving in fast coming out slow
(01:08:32) Chris: it deosnt matter how long the line is
(01:08:38) Chris: they get in at the same rate
(01:09:02) Chris: and unless you think the car is going to suck all tthe air out of the world, then the line will never get empty
(01:09:19) The Thunder Wang: what nonsesne is this example
(01:09:22) Chris: or how fast people get to the back of thi line
(01:09:57) Chris: the air has to slow down and convert its kinetic energy
(01:09:59) The Thunder Wang: have you ever just sucked air through a straw?
(01:10:06) Chris: OH MY GOD
(01:10:16) Chris: have you know conceptual power?
(01:10:21) The Thunder Wang: dude
(01:10:40) The Thunder Wang: suck air through a straw then do it through a paper towal tube
(01:10:55) The Thunder Wang: tell me which air moves faster
(01:10:56) Chris: yeah? and this proves what
(01:11:02) Chris: the ####ing straw
(01:11:05) The Thunder Wang: there you go
(01:11:15) Chris: what does that have to do with anything
(01:11:23) The Thunder Wang: why does it move faster
(01:11:34) Chris: because you are pulling less molecules at a time
(01:11:57) Chris: duh
(01:12:38) The Thunder Wang: this cannot be settled now
(01:12:51) Chris: you still havent told me what im wrong about
(01:12:55) The Thunder Wang: we again are nto arguin the same things
(01:12:59) Chris: you keep winding your ways about
(01:13:11) The Thunder Wang: my track record is good
(01:13:15) Chris: about what?
(01:13:24) Chris: and what does that have to do with ANYTHING
(01:13:25) The Thunder Wang: rool effect, octagon, i won those
(01:13:51) Chris: what? roll effect was miscomunication, there was no argument about the octagon we were just talking about different things
(01:13:57) The Thunder Wang: also your are refuting 50+ years of triead and tru experence
(01:14:05) Chris: YES
(01:14:52) Chris: and also the roll effect doesnt do what you think it does
(01:14:57) The Thunder Wang: i am saying that there is SOME benefit to some sort of ducting air system
(01:15:09) The Thunder Wang: the roll effect is viable
(01:15:23) Chris: re-explain what you consider to be the "roll effect"
(01:15:38) The Thunder Wang: bascialy
(01:15:39) Chris: because I think you are wrong
(01:17:24) The Thunder Wang: if you have a body of explosive gase, thorouly oxygenated, and you light it from one end , you will have more internal pressure by the time the explosin reachest he other end, then if you were to say ignighte it in the middle. also the fact that your still arguing this means its pointless to argue with you at all
(01:17:33) The Thunder Wang: and the hardes suported my idea
(01:17:57) Chris: nope, what you just said is not true
(01:18:16) Chris: this is a sealed container right
(01:18:20) The Thunder Wang: that your still arguing this, cause you are? did i expect any differnt
(01:18:26) Chris: no seriously
(01:18:34) Chris: this is a sealed container right?
(01:18:41) The Thunder Wang: i forget
(01:18:46) Chris: it has to be right
(01:18:49) The Thunder Wang: no cuse ther is a portaot in one end
(01:18:50) Chris: we are talking about bombs
(01:18:54) The Thunder Wang: no
(01:19:05) Chris: oh with the potato, yeah no
(01:19:06) The Thunder Wang: a bomb you want to egnight from the center
(01:19:09) Chris: its still sealed
(01:19:18) The Thunder Wang: or from the bottom
(01:19:23) Chris: you know why it doesnt matter pox? and why im right?
(01:19:31) The Thunder Wang: you realize now you are refuting tom harison which is a grave offence
(01:19:45) Chris: no no, I remember now what your said to TH and it wasnt that
(01:19:57) The Thunder Wang: well then i forgot the orignial argument
(01:19:58) Chris: pressure is the same throughout any sealed container
(01:20:18) Chris: and that is a fact
(01:21:04) Chris: heating one end of a chamber of gas wont increase the pressure on one side and not the other
(01:21:10) Chris: even if the chamber is really long
(01:21:40) The Thunder Wang: certainly one would have to consider the buring along the length of it
(01:21:41) Chris: because the gas molecules all push on each other
(01:21:54) Chris: no no, all the gas is pushing on each other
(01:22:01) The Thunder Wang: also genral shock waves and this and that
(01:22:10) Chris: shock waves?
(01:22:13) The Thunder Wang: you realize what the ultimate outcome was though
(01:22:17) Chris: no its just PSI that sends it tho
(01:22:40) Chris: see, I think I just wasnt learned enough then to break your lies about the roll effect
(01:22:41) The Thunder Wang: TH: "well it dose make a differnce, but not a very big one"
(01:22:59) The Thunder Wang: now your claiming to know more then th
(01:23:00) Chris: but the difference was not because of what you were saying
(01:23:02) The Thunder Wang: hubris
(01:23:13) The Thunder Wang: as i said a little knolege is a dangerous thing
(01:23:25) Chris: yes, I say the same thing in regard to your roll effect
(01:23:43) Chris: its taking intuitive ideas about things that dont behave intuitively
(01:24:23) The Thunder Wang: TH: "well it dose make a differnce, but not a very big one"
(01:24:30) Chris: exactly
(01:24:35) The Thunder Wang: and thus i win
(01:24:39) The Thunder Wang: and thats all ther is
(01:24:48) Chris: you dont win! it doesnt happen for the reason you said!
(01:25:08) Chris: its like saying the sky is blue because of the mystical blue dye
(01:25:19) Chris: your right that the sky is blue...
(01:25:22) The Thunder Wang: dude your to seeted in hard concepts
(01:25:35) Chris: well you are saying you "win"
(01:25:58) The Thunder Wang: like my ultimat argument in both roll efect and "ram air" is that there is a slight difference
(01:26:10) Chris: but not because of why you think
(01:26:29) The Thunder Wang: and thats all that matters, that it does work a little someway
(01:27:12) Chris: well ok, you win then, if thats your point of view, but its winning in the sense of recognizing that the sky is blue even though you think its because of the giant space witches magical spell
(01:28:02) The Thunder Wang: no thats not it at all
(01:28:08) Chris: ha ha
(01:28:09) The Thunder Wang: you refuse to admit defeate
(01:28:10) Chris: yeah it is
(01:28:21) Chris: well, why would I admit defeat if im right?
(01:28:27) The Thunder Wang: ther you go
(01:28:31) Chris: see, you just want me to give up
(01:28:39) The Thunder Wang: i dont want you to give up
(01:29:04) The Thunder Wang: im not disagreing over the ram jet thing
(01:29:21) The Thunder Wang: but air has to go some where
(01:29:29) Chris: what?
(01:29:38) The Thunder Wang: and it is flowing after all
(01:29:47) Chris: it slows the #### down
(01:30:01) Chris: more does NOT get into the engine, and not at any faster speeds
(01:30:07) The Thunder Wang: and you say that there is dynamic pressure on the out side of th car
(01:30:11) Chris: ye-
(01:30:42) The Thunder Wang: so if there was a circle atached to the front of the car it would hit that
(01:30:50) The Thunder Wang: with a certain dynamic pressure
(01:30:50) Chris: huh?
(01:30:56) Chris: a circle?
(01:31:02) The Thunder Wang: it ther was a cylinder of metal
(01:31:09) The Thunder Wang: bolted to the fornt of the car
(01:31:15) Chris: ha ha, yes?
(01:31:54) Chris: there would be some dynamic pressure if the air was flowing in the sense of drag
(01:32:04) The Thunder Wang: ok now lets say instead of a cylinder, it was a tubine, it woudl push against those plades with a certain pressrue right... they are just sittign there its not spinign or anything
(01:32:29) The Thunder Wang: paldes = blades
(01:32:37) Chris: ok, so you have a fan on the front of the car, and yes it would spin
(01:32:41) The Thunder Wang: it is dynamic pressure
(01:32:46) Chris: yep
(01:34:06) Chris: you know, before you go any further, take in mind that the reason why a turbo's turbine works is because the exhaust is actually in static pressure of much higer then air would ever reach
(01:34:21) The Thunder Wang: ok now lets say that turbine was spining it would chop little sections of that air which is beign forced at it and do its thing as a turbo, while i realize as soon as that air is "choped" the pressure decresses to that of 1 atm, but non the less the air is beign forced by dynamic pressure into the turbo
(01:34:32) Chris: and when the air hits the turbine, it slows down, and converts its kinetic energy into the blades
(01:34:48) The Thunder Wang: this will oficily be know as the sausage cutter argument
(01:34:56) The Thunder Wang: anyway
(01:35:06) Chris: what? no the air is not FORCED into the turbo
(01:35:10) The Thunder Wang: brake cooling duckts work the same
(01:35:18) The Thunder Wang: air is at a dynamic pressure
(01:35:18) Chris: same amount of air reaches the turbo at the same speed
(01:35:42) Chris: you are thinking as if air was a wave or something
(01:35:46) The Thunder Wang: so its forced though a tube and exits hiting the breake rottor
(01:35:47) Chris: it has mass and takes up space
(01:36:13) Chris: yes, and its not that hard to blow dust off a rotor, and the air acts as a heat exchanger
(01:36:34) The Thunder Wang: no dust
(01:36:45) The Thunder Wang: the air is movign at speed though
(01:36:53) Chris: yes yes
(01:36:54) The Thunder Wang: thats why it is a good heat exahcnger
(01:36:56) The Thunder Wang: lots of air
(01:37:03) Chris: well yeah
(01:37:10) Chris: but its flowing across it
(01:37:15) Chris: not INTO a closed space
(01:37:32) The Thunder Wang: i know
(01:37:52) The Thunder Wang: but it reaains that the air is hitting the rotor at a force
(01:38:04) Chris: yes yes, a dynamic pessure
(01:38:29) Chris: pox, try a little home experiment, take a cup, and spin around scooping up the air
(01:38:48) Chris: now tell me if by spinning faster you can get more air into the cup
(01:38:54) The Thunder Wang: so why cant there be the same pressure excerted on the valved
(01:39:08) The Thunder Wang: like the same pressure
(01:39:17) The Thunder Wang: poushing on the inside of the intake manifold
(01:39:26) Chris: because there is only so much space inside the cylinder!!! and the gas molecules hit each other
(01:39:46) Chris: so dumb! its not this massless ether or something
(01:39:47) The Thunder Wang: but it remains that ther is a dynamic pressure excerted
(01:40:08) Chris: yeah, but its not enough to have ANY effect, like there isnt even a small effect
(01:40:19) Chris: it just CANT and WONT compress the other molecules
(01:40:29) The Thunder Wang: im not saing compress
(01:40:48) Chris: well in order for there to be any effect it would have to do that
(01:41:08) The Thunder Wang: now when that valve opens cant ther be a dynamic pressure excerted on the cylinder
(01:41:35) Chris: ha ha, yeah, about the same amount as you blowing on it
(01:41:54) Chris: actually less
(01:42:00) The Thunder Wang: ah ha,
(01:42:07) The Thunder Wang: but still positive
(01:42:43) Chris: yes... but its useless work, like pushing on a brick wall and not having it move
(01:42:51) Chris: dont you even REMEMBER physics
(01:42:55) The Thunder Wang: but im still pushing on it corect
(01:42:59) Chris: YES
(01:43:04) Chris: but without any effect
(01:43:26) The Thunder Wang: there is efect, i am aplying a small force to the wall
(01:43:40) Chris: yes, this has been established
(01:43:48) Chris: wait no no effect
(01:43:51) Chris: missed that part
(01:43:55) Chris: no effect at all
(01:44:00) Chris: useless work
(01:44:08) The Thunder Wang: im still pushing the wall right?
(01:44:17) Chris: #### you yes, what is the point of this
(01:44:24) The Thunder Wang: ha ha
(01:44:27) The Thunder Wang: your just angry
(01:44:42) Chris: because you are keeping me up when there is no way to prove this wrong
(01:44:44) The Thunder Wang: and of corse wont acept any rational thoguh as you explained erlier
(01:44:55) Chris: no, I accept rational thought
(01:45:00) Chris: its good times
(01:45:09) Chris: what is good tho? totally irrational concept
(01:45:15) Chris: but enough of THAT
(01:46:13) The Thunder Wang: i also must admit im not thinign clear enough to continue this but i main taine that you are wrogn to refute this, flying in the face of experience, ill only acept this if you convince some people at 75 80 with ram air set ups
(01:46:27) The Thunder Wang: i dont have a set up
(01:46:34) Chris: I never said you did
(01:46:36) The Thunder Wang: so im more or less a devils advocate
(01:46:45) The Thunder Wang: but thes people have them and use them
(01:47:13) The Thunder Wang: also you know what happens if you remvoe the scoop formt he top of a dragster
(01:47:38) Chris: ha ha, problems, but thats for totally different reasons
(01:48:20) The Thunder Wang: well clearly the ari movign acros the hood will bemoving at a speed that will make a loss of pressure inside the hood area
(01:48:26) The Thunder Wang: this is how an airburss works
(01:48:41) Chris: yeah yeah, I know
(01:49:04) Chris: but all the hood scoop does is make low velocity air available for intake
(01:49:27) Chris: like the hood scoop is actually a way of slowing the air for proper use
(01:49:45) The Thunder Wang: it is better cause it directs the air to where it is needed
(01:50:53) Chris: better then what?
(01:51:28) The Thunder Wang: it is better then not have a scoop
(01:52:14) Chris: well it wouldnt make any difference with the engine running at idle
(01:52:26) Chris: or even at top rpms
(01:52:32) Chris: if it were not moving
(01:52:56) Chris: the problem is that with the air speed so hi there is a veturi effect that creates negative pressure
(01:53:14) The Thunder Wang: yeah
(01:53:20) The Thunder Wang: look at this
(01:53:23) Chris: and the hood scoop just slows down the air, and stops venturi shit from going down
(01:53:49) The Thunder Wang: if you wont fall to concepts then you will to iresputible evedicence
(01:53:54) The Thunder Wang: http://www.ws6.com/ramtest.htm
(01:54:26) Chris: "Careful reading of Pontiac’s statements on the matter reveal that the HP increase of the WS6 package are a result of a less restrictive intake, and a freer-flowing exhaust, NOT any ram air effect."
(01:55:41) The Thunder Wang: im not arguing in favor of ram air effect
(01:56:05) The Thunder Wang: im saying ther is a benfit to such a set up
(01:56:07) Chris: "There must be a huge difference on the street given these graphs."
how is that evidence, he is looking at charts and being like, yup, that MUST be good
(01:56:28) The Thunder Wang: more hp
(01:57:07) Chris: it has to do with restriction, like, if the airbox itself was a super ideal design it would perform the same
(01:57:19) Chris: its just not
(01:58:41) Chris: ok I gotta go to work in the morning
(01:58:50) Chris: sleep is needed
(01:58:53) Chris: and a ####ing shower
(01:58:54) The Thunder Wang: hold on
(01:58:58) The Thunder Wang: wait one second
(01:59:02) Chris: ok ok ok
(01:59:38) Chris: WAIT A SECOND, pox those are DYNO chart
(01:59:39) Chris: s
(01:59:42) The Thunder Wang: (00:46:16) Chris: Im refuting ANYthing that tries to claim power increases by funnling air at speeds less then 400mph
(01:59:44) Chris: the car ISNT EVEN MOVING
(01:59:57) Chris: yeah
(02:00:03) The Thunder Wang: so you just wronged yourself
(02:00:11) Chris: huh?
(02:00:15) Chris: where?
(02:00:24) The Thunder Wang: (00:46:16) Chris: Im refuting ANYthing that tries to claim power increases by funnling air at speeds less then 400mph
(02:00:32) Chris: that ram air isnt "Funneling air" the car ISNT EVEN MOVING
(02:00:40) The Thunder Wang: no im not talkigna obut htat
(02:00:47) Chris: what are you talking about then?
(02:01:02) Chris: by funneling, i was refering to the concept of a funnel on the intake
(02:01:05) The Thunder Wang: (01:49:04) Chris: but all the hood scoop does is make low velocity air available for intake
(01:49:27) Chris: like the hood scoop is actually a way of slowing the air for proper use
(02:01:09) Chris: it is
(02:01:15) Chris: AT HIGH SPEEDS
(02:01:29) Chris: not on the ####ing dyno
(02:01:34) The Thunder Wang: but i though you were refuting ANYthing that tries to claim power increases by funnling air at speeds less then 400mph
(02:01:35) Chris: it doesnt increase power
(02:01:40) Chris: I am!
(02:01:45) Chris: IT DOESNT INCREASE POWER
(02:01:48) The Thunder Wang: certainly a scoop is a funnl
(02:01:52) Chris: it makes the engine actually work
(02:01:56) The Thunder Wang: and it does increse power
(02:01:59) Chris: no no, it doesnt INCREASE power
(02:02:05) The Thunder Wang: even if it actualy slows the air down
(02:02:15) Chris:
(02:01:31) Chris: no no, it doesnt INCREASE power
(02:02:27) The Thunder Wang: so now your back on the scoops have no benefit bandwagon
(02:02:36) Chris: NO NO NO
(02:02:47) Chris: they have a benefit but its not to increase POWER
(02:02:51) The Thunder Wang: but i though "but all the hood scoop does is make low velocity air available for intake"
(02:02:56) Chris: YES
(02:03:00) Chris: NOT INCREASE POWER
(02:03:01) The Thunder Wang: now you need an intake
(02:03:08) Chris: wHICH IS WHAT I WAS REFUTING
(02:03:14) The Thunder Wang: what if the air isnt available
(02:03:20) The Thunder Wang: no power right?
(02:03:31) Chris: well #### me then, what if you ####ing take the oil out then too
(02:03:42) Chris: I guess the oil increases the power of the engine
(02:03:43) The Thunder Wang: we arent talking about oil
(02:03:53) Chris: pox wait a second
(02:03:59) Chris: if you run a dragster on a dyno
(02:04:04) Chris: with a hood scoop
(02:04:08) Chris: it will make X power
(02:04:32) Chris: if you run it out on the strip, with the the proper designed hood scoop, it will make same X hp
(02:04:43) Chris: NEVER EVER MORE
(02:04:53) The Thunder Wang: but if you ran it in both situations with no hood scoop
(02:04:58) The Thunder Wang: it would make less on the strip
(02:05:14) Chris: but thats getting into the realm of just not letting the engine function correctly, like taking out the oil
(02:05:27) The Thunder Wang: no its not
(02:05:40) The Thunder Wang: now your just makeing up situations to be right
(02:05:45) Chris: NO IM NOT
(02:05:49) Chris: thats what you are doing!
(02:05:53) The Thunder Wang: no im ot
(02:06:06) The Thunder Wang: im saiyn a scoop is integral to the function of a dragster
(02:06:19) The Thunder Wang: some sore of "air funaling" to get air where it needs to go
(02:06:20) Chris: #### man, yeah but not to increase power
(02:06:28) Chris: like you could do it without the scoop
(02:06:35) The Thunder Wang: it does increse power, it alows for power to be created
(02:06:59) Chris: gahhhh
(02:07:04) The Thunder Wang: this is why i said erlier that wer were arguign about different things
(02:07:07) The Thunder Wang: (00:46:16) Chris: Im refuting ANYthing that tries to claim power increases by funnling air at speeds less then 400mph
(02:07:12) The Thunder Wang: that is a wrong statment
(02:07:16) Chris: NOOOO
(02:07:32) Chris: what I said is corrcet
(02:07:43) Chris: the hood scoop does not INCREASE power
(02:07:54) The Thunder Wang: did i ever say it woudl
(02:08:06) The Thunder Wang: you cant claim now meanign to somthign you sadi
(02:08:06) Chris: (02:06:40) Pox: (00:46:16) Chris: Im refuting ANYthing that tries to claim power increases by funnling air at speeds less then 400mph
(02:08:13) Chris: thats all I am defending
(02:08:18) Chris: IM NOT
(02:08:23) Chris: my argument has never changed
(02:08:28) The Thunder Wang: is a scoop not a funnel?
(02:08:31) Chris: IT IS
(02:08:36) Chris: AND IT DOESNT INCREASE POWER
(02:08:51) Chris: god damn it, do I have to explain it all over
(02:08:51) The Thunder Wang: does it not increse the power over a scoopless dragster
(02:08:58) Chris: not on the dyno no
(02:09:06) The Thunder Wang: but on the strip where it matter?
(02:09:13) Chris: and you could make a dragster with no scoop that performed the same on the strip too
(02:09:27) Chris: the SCOOP the Funnel, is NOT what is increasing the power
(02:09:35) The Thunder Wang: but on the strip where it matter?
(02:09:36) Chris: or making it available
(02:09:40) Chris: YES
(02:09:43) The Thunder Wang: ok see
(02:09:46) Chris: even on the strip
(02:09:55) The Thunder Wang: so i gues you dont want a scoop on your justy after all?
(02:10:02) The Thunder Wang: cause it does nothing?
(02:10:14) Chris: I need the scoop because the filter wont fit under the hood and it looks cool
(02:10:25) The Thunder Wang: why not just make a love hump
(02:10:29) Chris: never expected it to provide power
(02:10:42) Chris: we could do that... and it would cause less problems
(02:10:47) Chris: wouldnt look as cool
(02:10:50) The Thunder Wang: more banign
(02:10:54) The Thunder Wang: but also wrong
(02:11:02) The Thunder Wang: casue you would have a restriction
(02:11:07) The Thunder Wang: and you would suck in hot under hood air
(02:11:08) Chris: what?
(02:11:20) Chris: well yeah, but that has to do with ambient temperature
(02:11:27) The Thunder Wang: so there is a nother benefit of some sort of scoop
(02:11:41) Chris: yeah but a cold air intake can acheive the same thing
(02:11:49) Chris: that is not some unique funneling property
(02:11:56) Chris: which is what I was refuting
(02:12:07) Chris: the concept that hood scoops FUNNEL more air into an engine
(02:13:26) Chris: see you arent trying to pick aparnt my important points anylonger, you are digging at like the individual words to find some small gap in my rhetoric...
(02:13:28) The Thunder Wang: a funnel is thus
(02:13:33) The Thunder Wang: A conical utensil having a small hole or narrow tube at the apex and used to channel the flow of a substance, as into a small-mouthed container.

(02:13:50) The Thunder Wang: casue why build a fortest of bad brick chris
(02:13:51) Chris: shut the #### up, I cant be wrong or all of chemisty and physics is wrong
(02:13:54) The Thunder Wang: ir will just fall down
(02:14:20) The Thunder Wang: so somethign needs to channal the flow of air
(02:14:23) The Thunder Wang: into the enginee
(02:14:32) Chris: oh my ####ing god
(02:15:04) Chris: you cant even use these arguments because you cant even spell any of these words right
(02:15:12) Chris: you arent even speaking real englist
(02:15:18) Chris: *english
(02:15:21) Chris: excuse me
(02:15:28) Chris: I actually correct myself
(02:16:17) Chris: like, how many times do I need to be right... christ
(02:16:31) Chris: I really am going now, shower and sleep, need to be concious for work
(02:16:51) The Thunder Wang: ha ha
(02:17:17) The Thunder Wang: if i can summarize, i agree that real ram air does not exist, but i disagree that scoops are useless
(02:17:27) The Thunder Wang: or anyother air funnel for that matter
(02:17:30) Chris: sigh, (02:06:40) Pox: (00:46:16) Chris: Im refuting ANYthing that tries to claim power increases by funnling air at speeds less then 400mph
(02:17:58) Chris: useful perhaps, but not for increasing power
(02:18:01) The Thunder Wang: so we still disagree of ther benefits of funaling air
(02:18:23) Chris: now you are getting stupid about the definition of funnel
(02:18:42) Chris: I just said funneling because I used the funnel into intake example
(02:18:44) The Thunder Wang: you are claiming non existant deffeintio99ng
(02:18:55) The Thunder Wang: that a funnle some how owuld increse the pressure
(02:19:07) The Thunder Wang: i better be carful if i ever porsonthgin into a funnle
(02:19:11) The Thunder Wang: it might SHOOOT OUT
(02:19:13) The Thunder Wang: ahhhhh
(02:19:23) The Thunder Wang: but i digress
(02:19:24) Chris: oh my god , I dont even KNOW what you just said
(02:19:28) The Thunder Wang:
(02:19:31) Chris: was that english?
(02:19:43) The Thunder Wang: so the fact is tonihgt we are both right, and i can accept that
(02:19:48) The Thunder Wang: but CAN YOU,
(02:19:52) Chris: what are you right about?
(02:19:57) Chris: I was like: (02:06:40) Pox: (00:46:16) Chris: Im refuting ANYthing that tries to claim power increases by funnling air at speeds less then 400mph
(02:20:00) Chris: and you were like no
(02:20:07) Chris: and I was shown to be right
(02:20:09) Chris: end of story
(02:20:12) The Thunder Wang: that a scoop provids a benift
(02:20:19) The Thunder Wang: and it does
(02:20:21) Chris: I wasnt talking about that
(02:20:25) The Thunder Wang: i was
(02:20:30) Chris: so yes, you win the discussion with your self about that
(02:20:32) The Thunder Wang: and its part of the argument
(02:20:40) Chris: I never argued the contrary
(02:20:53) The Thunder Wang: you should make big statments that are wrong to prove somethign right
(02:20:56) Chris: just that it wasnt something unique to the hood scoop that acomplishes those benefits
(02:21:09) The Thunder Wang: it does direct the air
(02:21:24) Chris: that doesnt matter!
(02:21:41) The Thunder Wang: so things that direct air are useless?
(02:22:10) Chris: sigh... hood scoops do not magicall make air available where it once was not
(02:22:48) The Thunder Wang: well they dont when the car is sittign ther, but if it moves
(02:22:55) The Thunder Wang: it induces flow
(02:23:57) Chris: ok ok, yes, but unless the engines air needs are rediculously large, then the verturi effect does not neccestate any sort of special extra "funneling"
(02:24:16) Chris: theres nothing more to argue about, what the #### is going on
(02:24:29) Chris: like, how do you find more things to talk about
(02:24:30) The Thunder Wang: your trying to be right about everything
(02:24:41) The Thunder Wang: when infact your are only right about one thing
(02:24:42) Chris: well when im not wrong
(02:24:50) Chris: what the ####
(02:24:54) Chris: you are so dumb
(02:24:59) The Thunder Wang: your to tired to argue
(02:25:11) Chris: no, you are too tired to understand what im telling you
(02:25:25) Chris: like, its been an uphill battle to get you to understand some of these concepts
(02:25:30) The Thunder Wang: but im out, this has been fun i supose
(02:25:36) Chris: jesus
(02:25:50) The Thunder Wang: as i said before... ill have to see it for my self
(02:25:55) The Thunder Wang: then ill know
(02:26:03) Chris: Ill draw you a picture sometime
(02:26:05) The Thunder Wang: nighty night

 

[bigfoot]

A little knowlege is a dangerous thing.

 

[DSMJim]

Both of you have no idea what your talking about and argued about nothing for over 2 hours, .

 

[focusedrage]

, , please then teach me something, casue I think he will hate to hear he is wrong

 

[LaserRST]

Hate to burst bubbles but he is right(Chres). There was a point being made about the ram making low velocity air available for the intake thus getting rid of the venturi effect. This would benefit those whom have a cold air intake pointing downward, by changing the angle and making a catch to slow the air down. But its all still dynamic. Think of it this way. This is how they explained it in my book. Take a funnel and imagine water falling on top the funnel. The downward force the water has on the funnel is dynamic. Static would be the cup the funnel is funneling into. No matter how hard the water is going (in this case 0-100mph) it will funnel into the cup at the same rate, static pressure. This would also explain the divergance example of the small cone to a large opening. Now there is a function that can actually explain this and because air is an ideal gas it wont be too hard to actually give the formula. I will do alot of studying for this cuz this is new and exciting territory. But the formula is pretty much fixed. Fact=there is no forced induction in ram air for tuner class cars. It does however make air available for a freer flowing intake, which is beneficial at high speeds. We are talking about a different science from this point, and there is no pressure increase for the intake or rest of the engine. Funny though yall talked for as long as you did

 

[LaserRST]

I found a link a buddy o mine pointed out which will help prove his explanation... http://flow.netfirms.com/prandtl/index.htm

I used this and found out that to increase pressure at the intake 0.1 psi we would need to go about 78mph and to increase pressure to 1.5 like the magazine article said we would need to go about 290 mph. I think we need to call some article writers and flame em for feedin us BS.

P(dynamic)=P(total)-P(static)

P(dynamic)=pv(squared)/2

My two cents....

 

[dsmturboawd]

i personally think this is more of a common sense issue than a mathamatical one. we could argue about this til our fingers bled, but no solution would be found.

this should be moved to the extreme tuners forum, more educated replys will be had in there.

 

[focusedrage]

Originally posted by LaserRST
I found a link a buddy o mine pointed out which will help prove his explanation... http://flow.netfirms.com/prandtl/index.htm

I used this and found out that to increase pressure at the intake 0.1 psi we would need to go about 78mph and to increase pressure to 1.5 like the magazine article said we would need to go about 290 mph. I think we need to call some article writers and flame em for feedin us BS.

P(dynamic)=P(total)-P(static)

P(dynamic)=pv(squared)/2

My two cents....

consider though that perhaps that would make a differnce for top fuel cars as they do reach those speeds, and then that small pressure boost would help. But I agree that it is a common sense issue. And there is still use in makeing a way to direct air where it is needed