Crower Stage 4(FOUR!) Cams-who Has Them?

[sweet97]

I did a search and got old material. Certainly someone must have added these in the last year or so. I want more than the HKS 272's and have tried the Comp 200's and they were not what they claimed for me. I am looking for a drop straight in, increase in power over the HKS 272's and pull to 8500+RPM's. I have heard the Crower stage 3's might be what I am looking for. Stage 3 owners can you share some of your experience with the cams and and other previous cams you have ran? I tried to look at the FP3's but could not find the FP website! Thanks, Mark
Here are the specs:
1. HKS 272's Duration 213* in and out, lift .406/.386

2. Crower stage 4's Duration 218*/216* in/out with lifts of .425" in and .416" out.
The Crower stage 4's are the cams I am interested in. Anyone? I have a stage 3 Busachur P&P Head, JM SMIM and a Holset HX-35/40 cabable of 70lbs/min of flow so I think I have the supporting mods for these cams here, also 950cc inj's which may be the weak link but I will try upping the base pessure as high as 49psi as that is where I believe FIC rates their injectors at. Thanks, Mark

 

[andymoraitis]

Mark,

Just an FYI, Forced Performance can be found here:

http://www.forcedperformance.net

Since you have a Stage III head on the motor, you may want to look at the FP2x instead of the FP3, which is more of a stroker cam. You can also see if Forced Performance will do a custom grinds for you.

Regarding the Crowers, I found a thread that you may find interesting. According to the information, they need to be degreed. Have a look:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71818&highlight=Crower+Stage+III

Talk soon,

Andy

 

[sweet97]

Andy I PM'ed that fellow a couplke of times and he is just now changing out those cams. He originally had them with a 16G and went to a 60-1 and has been revving to 8500rpm's for 2 years! I made a mistake anyways. It's not the stage 3's I'm getting but the stage 4's. The stage 3's are about the same as the HKS 272's. The 4's are another step up! 5* more intake, 3* more exhaust, .019" more lift on the intake and .030" more lift on the exhaust.
Biglady112 has run the Crower stage 4's in his race car and is adding them to both of his street cars. I don't drive much more than 6000 miles a year so I can deal with an idle of 1000 rpm's and as long as these cams start to pull at 4500rpm's that would be great, right here the turbo starts to become comfortable! They should pull to 8500 with ease and maybe more should a dyno session show that more would be beneficial. Biglady112 says he uses stock cam gears also so I guess he has not found degreeing to be needed but if so then it will be done. I think that with my mods listed in a post above that the stage 4's are just right for my combo.
I will be calling Brian Crower tomorrow and may have a set on the way quite soon. I have already sold the HKS cams and will have payment tomorrow most likely. This upgrade should not cost much more than $150. tops. Should be good for 15-20HP don't you think? Mark
PS: sorry about the call. 8AM is mid day for me, well at least first break!

 

[98talonAWD]

i have Comp 300's and they are on the border of ideling and dying and they pull hard as hell on a T67. i would have got the 400's, but unless you want your car to idle at 1200rpms all the time, forget it. also with the 400's, if the car blips down in rpm there is no saving it by revving the motor....it will stall out. im using the Comp 300 cams on the 42R and that turbo flows 96lbs/min. and it will be more than fine.

i just have to ask why... the highest hp the HX40 produced is 550whp with every mod under the sun to a DSM. keep the cams you got and work on other parts of your car. the cams arent the problem! and your 200's were run on a buddies car and it made 700+ whp and ran like crazy. if anything i would get rid of that small AR hotside you got, you'll see god when you change that thing.

i also see you dont have a standalone... at this point if you really want that big of cams, you will benefit from the added ability to tune the car better.

all the Comps should be degreed in, and even the HKS drop ins should be degreed also for best results.

 

[sweet97]

Tim I can only take Bullseye's word on the 70lbs/min. Of course I am not flowing that much now. Guys have also ran 10's with 16G's so why go with a 42R? Looking for 9's?
I look at each guys car as unique and his own expression of what he would like for his ride. I could have had the crowers when David built my motor last summer but I did not know much about them then. I don't drive much, 6000 miles a year at the most. Getting the Crower stage 4's is just getting my motor to where I would have had it with a little more knowledge.
I am not sure of the Bullseye turbines a/r as it is proprietary info. It is a nice piece and perhaps in the future I may change but to what? It spools the big turbo quick and I doubt it is killing tons of power but I could be wrong. By the way the car that put down 550HP with "every mod under the sun" did so at 20psi, not bad, huh?
I have had the 14B, EVO 16G, 50 trim, 60-1 and now the Holset. This is my favorite by far. Really if I was putting down 550AWHP I would be a very happy driver!!
The mods I have are what I ended up with due to my obsessive, compulsive & addictive personality. I will live with them. ( Actually 500AWHP would be great and satisfy-for a while!)
That 42R is a beast, meant for V8's. You must be building a strictly race car, yes? That turbo can put down 1000HP, 1200 at the crank, riht? There is a guy on the Buschur forum using the same turbo and it's a monster!! He's looking for 9's. Send me your email and I can send you a couple pics of my car. Nothing of the caliber of yours but none the less, still nice. Like I said it's a personal thing and each guys car is unique yet still a member of the DSM family. That's what makes it interesting. Some are followers, EVO, 50 trim, xxxexhaust, etc. Others like yourself are pushing the envelope and that's the deal, it's what YOU want.
If I can tune for 30psi I will be happy, anything above 25 will even be enough. I heard of a guy named DRE who put down 500+AWHP with a modified 50 trim on pump! PUMP. WOW! That was his thing and I respect that. I even respect the kid who can only afford an ebay FMIC and needs PVC from Lowes for his IC piping. It comes from the heart. The kid I sold the HKS 272's to was exhuberant when he bought them. Said it made his day and he had a tough day. Isn't that what it's all about, enjoying what you have and not what you want? Contentment over happiness. Most people do not get that.
Oh, I have met God. He is my Lord and Savior. In an hour I will be singing to Him hymns of thanks and praise. Peace! Thanks for the input. mark

 

[98talonAWD]

im just saying that like a stage 4 crower or a comp 400 grind is very big for street use... yes it can work, but why not try something else?!... in fact.. since im doing a full race car now, if your interested in buying my new comp 300's that i got, let me know. i'll sell them at a really good price and they only have about 500 miles on them at the very most. PM me if your interested.

thanks

Tim

 

[nanokpsi]

If you want a race cam, call crane. That is what Brent Rau runs and I am sure other big names do the same. Some work needs to be done to the head to make them fit, but they definately have some nasty grinds. You also can't really buy cams looking at card info, as it says nothing about the ramp rate. A cam with a really fast ramp rate will have the cam open near its full lift for a longer period of time than a cam with more duration and a slower ramp rate. Just food for thought.

 

[sweet97]

The HKS 272's have 213* duration in/out with lifts of .406" and 386".
The Crower stage 4's have 218*/216* duration in/out with lifts of .425"/.416". Not drastic but I would think worth a 10-15 HP increase. I am not however in a HP contest nor do I have a HP goal but I will find out what it is just to know and get some tuning done then also. Noy going to the track either except once to get a number again. I have a Scanmaster which gets it's info from the ECU so it's accurate. With a friend in the car(3500lbs.total) I turned an 11.80 and 115-117 MPH. Drop the friend and add the SMIM and I should hit, what, 11.40? (please don't mention bench racing as we ALL bench race) Add 3 psi of boost and maybe hit an 11.0x, possible. Run some race gas and change chips to get 4* more timing advance and then a good .3 is possible so I'm at a 10.79. New cams should drop a .1 so that makes an 10.70 possible, full weight car and a bullseye turbine which I like, very well made and consistant. had it on 4 turbo's.
I do not want to do the work required for Cranes. If doing a fresh head it would be worth it. 222* in and 216* out with lifts of .444 and .424. That's some numbers!
I'm disabled due to 3 back surgeries, one involving cadaver bone and a few screws, then there is the Morphine pump imbedded into my abdomen pumping 24/7 to my spine/brain. I drive about 5-6k miles a year. A "race" cam would not be a problem. Don't you think my mods could handle/use more cam? Mark

 

[nanokpsi]

I think every big turbo set up set up could use more cam I have the comp 400s and I was thinking of running the Crane stuff. Since polk is going to be doing my head anyways, I'm sure they could take care of it.

You might also look at the FP3x cams. They have 212* dur for intake an exhaust and .430/.414 lift. They also have a very fast ramp rate making the lobes squarish. Pretty rowdy stuff.

 

[Dark_Horse]

FP2 cams are ~ 20whp increase over the HKS 272's. And FP3's are a 20whp increase over FP2's. I'll look and post the link for both dyno plots. (the fp3's were 20whp above the fp2's everywhere in the power band)
If you've got the funds to run em, like nanokpsi said, check into FP3x cams. You'll need double valve springs because of the steep ramp angles.

 

[sweet97]

Well I ordered the Crower Stage 4's(64415-2) today.
216*/218* duration and .425/.416 lift. A nice step above my HKS 272's but should be quite streetable.
Those "square lobe" Comps are rough on the valvetrain. Crower has other proprietary grinds if the 415's are not enough for some of you. I will report my results in about 8 weeks. Thanks, mark

 

[94awdcoupe]

Switched from hks 272 to crower stage 3 two years ago. Picked up 25whp at 7000, 47whp at 7500. This was on a 2.4. worth 3mph at the track. They idle better too. Stage 4s are really radical. They are for very high revving motors. Saw a graph of a 2.0 with them. was not impressed. Flatest torque curve I have ever seen. Because they made no low end torque. Poor idle.

 

[blue1]

I found this ages ago which i thought was interesting. check out the difference of the Crane cams and then what happened with the solid kifters.

Quote:On the top-end, the factory first-generation cylinder head receives a race porting from Headgames Motorsports. Once the porting process is complete, the head is assembled with REV stainless-steel valves, Extreme Motorsports dual valve springs, Extreme Motorsports titanium retainers and Crane cams. "We found a great deal of hidden horsepower in the valvetrain. The racing-profile Crane cams delivered over 100-horsepower compared to the street/strip HKS 272s. On top of that, we also found nearly 100 horsepower in converting the valvetrain to solid lifters," says Sean. While these gains may seem unbelievable, neither Mitsubishi nor HKS considered that someone would be crazy enough to spin a 4G63 to 10,500 rpm. The seal between top and bottom is made by 12mm ARP head studs and an Extreme Motorsports multi-layer-steel (MLS) gasket.

 

[sweet97]

The 415's are great! Idle at 950-1000 with nore lope than the HKS 272's, off boost is the same as with the 272's and WOT is harder! Couldn't ask for more. Mark