Clutch Fork Hitting the Inside of the Bell Housing- Please Help

[fourgsixthree33]

95 Eagle Talon TSi FWD with 4G64 Trans

2 months ago, I did a 6 bolt swap and also installed a new 4G64 trans. After the swap, I could not get the car to go into gear at all. It was either pull the trans and shim the pivot ball or replace the master cylinder and clutch cylinder. I decided to replace the master and slave before pulling the trans just in case that was the fix. Then I wouldn't have had to pull the trans back off.

The master and slave fixed the problem. All of a sudden, Monday of this week, I randomly started to have problems getting the car in gear while driving. It was drivable and would go into gear, I just had to push it in a little harder.

Yesterday about an 1/8 mile from my work, I downshifted and couldn't get the car in gear. When I let the clutch out, the clutch stuck at the halfway point. I eventually got it in gear with some effort and pulled into my work. Once I was stopped, I tried getting it into first gear and no luck.

So after work I called Advance Auto. They had a slave cylinder but not a master. So I walked my a$$ all the way to the parts store, walked back, put the new slave in, bled the system, no luck.

Today I swapped the master. Clutch pedal feels great. No air coming out of the bleeder when I bleed it. Still won't go in gear. If I put the car in gear, push the clutch in, then start the car, then car moves as if I didn't even have the clutch pushed in.

So I looked up inside the fork hole. Noticed that my fork is sitting more towards the passenger side of the car instead of the driver side like it should be. Then I seen that the fork was making contact with the bell housing.

I adjusted the master cylinder rod in, out, and everywhere in between with no change. I am guessing the trans needs to come out. But what is causing this? Why would I need to shim the pivot ball all of a sudden? Is the issue something else?

Clutch pushed in.

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Clutch not pushed in.

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[spyderdrifter]

Unfortunately pull your trans. Could be a number of things with the linkage, or even internally with the trans, but hopefully not that. Cheek the shimming on the pivot ball again and condition of the throw out bearing. Make sure everything else lines up.

 

[GofaST4life]

Your going to have to pull the tranny.

You've done everything you could from the outside. And knowing that the fork is messed up, pretty much means its an internal problem.

 

[uummm]

Sounds like the divot where the pivot ball rides has broken through. I had this happen once, it eventually took the clutch and throw out bearing with it (I didn't feel any difference with the clutch right away and didn't really know there was a problem until too late).

 

[T is for TURBO]

• Worn pivot ball/clutch fork
  
• Improperly stepped flywheel
  
• To much material removed from flywheel
  
• Bent clutch fork

All are reasons that can cause this. Trans HAS to come off.

You're not running an extended slave rod are you?

I'm leaning toward a failure of some sort since it was working fine.

 

[Quadsportz]

I had the same problem the fork was hitting the trans. I put two washers behind the piviot ball to fix it.

 

[luv2rallye]

• Worn pivot ball/clutch fork
  
• Improperly stepped flywheel
  
• To much material removed from flywheel
  
• Bent clutch fork

All are reasons that can cause this. Trans HAS to come off.

You're not running an extended slave rod are you?

I'm leaning toward a failure of some sort since it was working fine.

^yes +1. Also know that the clutch fork is what wears or gets bent - rarely the pivot ball. Also are you sure you have a compatable tranny for your setup? I'm not the expert here but here's some info: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/new...transmission-compatibility.html#post152511094

 

[fourgsixthree33]

Thanks for the replies guys!

I will pull the trans. I have never pulled just the trans in my 2G before. I have always pulled the motor with it. Unfortunately, I do not have access to an engine hoist due to my fathers place burning down two days ago. I have done it in the 1G several times though. The 2G engine bay just looks like removing only the trans would be a real pain. Tips?

Again, I tried adjusting the master rod both ways and everywhere in between. Nothing made a difference in the position that the fork sits in the whole. Like not even a little bit.

I am leaning towards a pivot ball or clutch fork malfunction. But I won't know till I pull the trans.

This is my 2nd 4G64 trans. I actually didn't know it was a 4G64 trans either time. Bought the car with one and broke an axle. 2G FWD axles wouldn't fit. Found out it was a 4G64 trans. Then I bought a rebuilt trans locally and the same thing happened. I am not too sure on the differences, but I have been happy with these. Though I would rather have a 63 trans.

 

[luv2rallye]

Here's a tip about not having to remove any ball joints or axels from the hubs to remove tranny. Works on all 2g. Will save a lot of time and parts (ball joints, hubs, drive shafts). http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/316646-pulling-transmission-tomorrow.html#post151688536.

Also plug the speed sensor hole with a rag (not paper towel - personally found that out the hard way) so you won't drop anything in it.

And having one of these really makes life easier: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/new...ting-awd-trans-reinstalled.html#post151918162

Have the car high enough on jack stands so tranny can come out RF wheel well.

 

[fourgsixthree33]

^^Thanks for linking that thread.

Forgot to answer a question above, no I do not have an extended slave cylinder rod. Though that's what it sure looks like. It is an Advance Auto Parts special. So what ever they have .

I just got started pulling the trans. It's off the ground and on jack stands. Wheels off, axle nuts off, upper IC pipe off, battery out, intake pipe out, all three trans mounts are unbolted. Now, do I have to unbolt the mounts from the trans and completely remove them from the car? The passenger side top mount is removed but the front and rear are not yet.

 

[luv2rallye]

Leave a jack that you can raise/lower under the oil pan (block of wood on it) to support engine (pivots on drivers side engine mount).

Following is for 4g63T tranny - hopefully yours is similiar.
You didn't have to remove axel nuts. Remove passenger side top mount bracket off tranny completely. Front mount is completely removed. On rear, first remove VSS and then remove long bolt that holds mount to frame support bracket. Then remove bolts that hold bracket to tranny and remove bracket.

 

[T is for TURBO]

Lube the input shaft. It makes a night and day difference. I just went threw this headache last month. Removed and installed the trans 3 times with no help. Just used an engine hoist and this little guy

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[luv2rallye]

Ya that little guy (avail at Harbor Freight) becomes a power lift with an impact wrench.

Another tip: Almost immediately after pulling tranny input shaft out of clutch disk, you will have to rotate tranny to get it past the big cross member part that sticks out in the way (this is the member that the lower control arms and steering rack bolt onto). It will go if you rotate it and position it just right.

 

[PieEyedPiper]

HA! Dude, that IS help!

I would have killed for a hoist and a tranny jack! Definitely use them/buy them/rent them, whatever. I won't consider doing the job with plain old hands again.

OP, my guess, for what you find inside is a pp failure of some sort. It really is like some sort of brain twister trying to imagine the possibilities.

 

[T is for TURBO]

Ya that little guy (avail at Harbor Freight) becomes a power lift with an impact wrench.

Lol, just don't get carried away with it

 

[fourgsixthree33]

Got the trans out. Here is a video of everything. Anything look wrong??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZU8cA8ouJ4

 

[2gNickTSi]

I'm assuming just shim the pivot ball.. I had some bad luck and after 2 days of owning my 2g it crankwalked and would not go into gear.. So by the time we got everything out I had a leaky slave, a bent master cylinder rod, had to shim the pivot ball and get a new block.. Biggest PITA ever.

If you haven't seen this video, check it out. Pivot Ball Shimming - YouTube

 

[luv2rallye]

+1 Excellent video on pivot ball shimming!

Fourgsixthree33: T.O. bearing movement video looks fine, so shimming the pivot ball will most likely solve the problem. Here's a good pic of when to shim it: http://www.roadraceengineering.com/eclipsetech/clutch/armcentered.jpg. Unfortunately there's no way to know how many washers to use. You just have to try one and rebolt the tranny back on (but don't install everything else yet) to see the new fork position. If not enough add another washer. [To give you some idea, I added a 0.071" thick washer to mine which wasn't over as far as yours - so you probably need a thicker one.]

 

[fourgsixthree33]

I removed the trans, put a different fork, pivot ball, shimmed it, and new TOB. Put it back on. The fork is now sitting to the driver side. The slave does not push the fork far enough now. Still not going into gear.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEQkUrKvoOo]Faline- trsns removal 3 - YouTube[/ame]

 

[PieEyedPiper]

It appears over-shimmed to me. In that configuration, you may even have physical interference. i.e. pp fingers hitting
If it were me, I'd reinstall with a smaller shim that more closely puts the fork into spec.

 

[arabeclipse]

Rule of thumb is that you want that fork arm in the middle of the "fork hole" or a little towards the drivers side. Using standard washers to shim the pivot ball should help with that.

 

[fourgsixthree33]

Any chance the crappy Advance Auto master cylinder could be weak? Thus not allowing the slave to push the fork as far as it needs to?

 

[2gNickTSi]

From what I've heard, you should stay away from any aftermarket slave or master cylinders. I haven't experienced anything myself, but most people say OEM only because of different stroke ratio's and internal parts, etc.

 

[fourgsixthree33]

STM shipped out the OEM master cylinder today. I thought they would have shipped it monday when I placed the order. Just from past experience with Extreme PSI, they ship their stuff out the day the order is placed. I would have had it by now if I ordered from them. I won't see the master cylinder till Friday now.

I am crazy paranoid that the OEM master still won't fix the problem. Something caused the fork to make contact with the bell housing to begin with. Maybe replacing the fork, ball, and TOB was the initial fix and now it is over-shimmed like mentioned above. Or maybe the PP, Clutch, or Flywheel are messed up...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q68Hg7SwpMk]Faline- Trans removal 4 - YouTube[/ame]

 

[uummm]

Is it possible that the TOB is binding on the input shaft since it seems to be shimmed too far now?